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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2007 14:27:52 GMT -5
[. HEY! Here's an idea....GIVE THIS THREAD A REST!.....OKAY? I know what I am talking about so there. Prove it by posting the link that leasing is a factor in any EHD outbreak in the world......anywhere?
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Post by drs on Sept 7, 2007 14:38:45 GMT -5
[. HEY! Here's an idea....GIVE THIS THREAD A REST!.....OKAY? I know what I am talking about so there. Prove it by posting the link that leasing is a factor in any EHD outbreak in the world......anywhere? Got a MUCH BETTER idea; why don't you provide the information that says "leasing" doesn't contribute to EHD, to some degree, by interfering with wise State management programs & goals. I am sure getting tired of arguing with you on Leasing, Timex! Please give this issue a rest. Everyone knows your livelyhood is partly dependent on leasing to Hunters. So GIVE IT A REST!
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Post by mullis56 on Sept 7, 2007 15:00:27 GMT -5
Prove it by posting the link that leasing is a factor in any EHD outbreak in the world......anywhere? Got a MUCH BETTER idea; why don't you provide the information that says "leasing" doesn't contribute to EHD, to some degree, by interfering with wise State management programs & goals. I am sure getting tired of arguing with you on Leasing, Timex! Please give this issue a rest. Everyone knows your livelyhood is partly dependent on leasing to Hunters. So GIVE IT A REST! Leasing doesn't affect me in anyway....LEASING is not the deal with EHD. Bottom line....it doesn't contributre to EHD. Fewer does being killed and/or deer being closer together help it spread as the deer are close together........LEASING doesn't create this. It is amazing that people who are upset with the hunting industry and the commercialization of hunting are still afraid to knock on doors and ask for permission....and then they are blaming mother natures course, EHD, on leasing?? You make me laugh ;D ;D ;D This thread cracks me up and when I need a laugh at pure ignorance I come to it!
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Post by whiteoak on Sept 7, 2007 15:23:22 GMT -5
I talked to a worker at Sugar Ridge FWL at the Pike County headquarters. They are finding dead deer on all their property which is public hunting ground and gets hammered evey year by hunters. The midge fly knows no boundries. Leasing hunting ground, which by the way I'm not a fan of, but I do it, has nothing to do with this desease. Thinking that leasing hunting ground is the cause of EHD is like saying poison ivy is caused by over population, when you were just unlucky and happened to come in contact with it. Alot of people still think you can get from someone who has the rash, you can not.
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Post by rmc on Sept 7, 2007 15:25:54 GMT -5
Most of the cases I'm hearing about are on state and government ground. I can't see how leasing would contribute to this at all. Most people I know who lease want to practice QDM and keep the population under control. From all the people I'm talking about this it sounds like the places getting hit the hardest are swampy places that still have water standing like the Refuge in Seymour and along small and large rivers, and lakes that still have water in them. Now if someone had property leased in an area like this it would make it look like it was caused by leasing. But good sound common sense would show that leasing has nothing to do with an area hit by EHD.
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Post by mbogo on Sept 7, 2007 18:35:39 GMT -5
Once the gnats hatch out they don't strictly near water sources, stagnant or not. The last time this hit about ten years ago my local taxidermist lost 4 of the 5 deer he kept as pets and the other one was infected but survived. They weren't located anywhere near any type of water source. Dead deer are commonly found near water because they are compelled to try to cool the raging fever caused by the disease but they can be infected anywhere.
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Post by lymanl3 on Sept 9, 2007 23:04:18 GMT -5
EHD is here every year. Those who make it will be more resistant until modification of the pathogen occurs, and the cycle starts over. Its spotty, and it can hit anywhere. We found 2 does yesterday that were dead, but the next woods over may be untouched. Until we have a frost it will continue to spread.
As far as leasing having a direct correlation...that is spurious.
Leasing has no direct influence on EHD spreading. Leasing is changing hunting as we know it. Some leasing is good and some is bad. Some manage, some merely buck hunt. Regardless....none facilitate the spread of EHD.
Lyman
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Post by drs on Sept 10, 2007 6:31:35 GMT -5
Got a MUCH BETTER idea; why don't you provide the information that says "leasing" doesn't contribute to EHD, to some degree, by interfering with wise State management programs & goals. I am sure getting tired of arguing with you on Leasing, Timex! Please give this issue a rest. Everyone knows your livelyhood is partly dependent on leasing to Hunters. So GIVE IT A REST! Leasing doesn't affect me in anyway....LEASING is not the deal with EHD. Bottom line....it doesn't contributre to EHD. Fewer does being killed and/or deer being closer together help it spread as the deer are close together........LEASING doesn't create this. It is amazing that people who are upset with the hunting industry and the commercialization of hunting are still afraid to knock on doors and ask for permission....and then they are blaming mother natures course, EHD, on leasing?? You make me laugh ;D ;D ;D This thread cracks me up and when I need a laugh at pure ignorance I come to it! OKAY, believe what you want. Good Luck!
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bsk
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Post by bsk on Sept 10, 2007 18:20:11 GMT -5
The two primary forms of Hemorrhagic Disease (HD), Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease (EHD) and Blue tongue (BT) are not density dependent diseases. Timex is correct that EHD will hit low density as well as high density deer herds.
However, the survival rate of infected animals is influenced by individual animal health, and that IS density dependent. So the percent of the local population that is infected is not driven by density dependent factors (it is driven by the midge population, which is highest in hot, dry weather), but the percent of the infected animals that die from the disease can be influenced by density dependent factors.
The density dependence of deer herd health will be far more of a factor in primarily woodland habitat than in agricultural habitat. In fact, the large volume of high-quality food sources in an agricultural habitat can produce such a high carrying capacity that rarely will you see noticable declines in herd health strictly due to herd density issues.
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bsk
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Post by bsk on Sept 10, 2007 18:23:12 GMT -5
Obviously the "leasing issue" is an old argument on this site (and many others). But I've seen some of the best managed herds on leases and I've seen some of the worst managed herds on leases. I don't think leasing per se is a primary driving force in deer "mismanagement." The general hunting public is just as capable of mismanaging a deer herd as a private lease/club.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2007 19:31:42 GMT -5
F & W Officials in Kentucky tell me that they have NO over-populated areas in the state (that are hunted). There are some issues with a couple of urban areas with no hunting allowed. The unlimited doe permits in Zone 1 counties in Kentucky have all but eliminated any population problems, in fact farmer complaints are very low in most all areas of the state......yet we are getting hit fairly hard by EHD this year. Most of the hard hit areas in Ky. are in the best counties as far as groceries go.....that being the western part of the state. I'm dang sure that Dr. Gassett willl attest that those deer are in the best possible condition that can be managed for. Yet, some of them have died from this disease this year.
As for any correlation to a lease, I lease land to hunters. They are the same hunters that hunt lands that are owned by family or friends or public lands. Some leasees do all of the above. They are just as much conservation minded as the next guy or more so. Nobody wants to be on a poorly managed lease, same as they don't want to be on poorly manage private or public lands.
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Post by ripleyshooter on Sept 11, 2007 6:54:24 GMT -5
A friend of mine said he found three dead deer on Laughery Creek in southern Ripley County. He assumed it was probably EHD.
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bsk
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Post by bsk on Sept 11, 2007 7:27:14 GMT -5
Due to the localized nature of deer herds it's impossible to make blanket statements about deer density and condition. However, the KY DNR has done everything in their power to allow for the proper management of the deer herds of the state. I've always had a lot of respect for John Gassett and the way the KY DNR has been pro-active--seeing problems coming before they are a problem and reacting to them.
However, I have seen overpopulated deer herds in KY in pockets. But those problem areas are almost always the fault of the local hunters, as they refuse to kill enough does. A lot of hunters still exist that can't get out of the old mindset of protecting does. In addition, adequate doe harvests are a hard and thankless job.
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bsk
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Post by bsk on Sept 11, 2007 7:29:59 GMT -5
timex,
The only problem I have with a statement about lesees like, "They are just as much conservation minded as the next guy or more so. Nobody wants to be on a poorly managed lease,..." is that it is hard to find a group of hunters that know what good or proper management is. We are making progress and hunters are constantly becoming better educated, but we still have a long way to go. And unfortunately, with the plethora of hunting shows that emphasize the wrong things and provide inaccurate management information, it's going to be a long and hard road.
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Post by drs on Sept 11, 2007 7:59:29 GMT -5
A friend of mine said he found three dead deer on Laughery Creek in southern Ripley County. He assumed it was probably EHD. Once more: I've noticed, that where this disease is occurring, the greatest frequency/numbers of Deer found dead or sick, are in very rural areas. Where I live, near my property, there are many homes in nearby Subdivisions. Lots of these Folks have lawn care service, where lots of spraying goes on, to control insects, throughout the Spring & Summer Months. Now just maybe these same chemicals, they use to spray for insect pest, are most likely controling the number of "Midges" that carry this Disease "EHD". My property is very close to these homes, and the Deer I see on my property are all healthy & fat. I have a Doe & her two Fawns come up on my driveway each afternoon, and those twin fawns are 3/4 the size of their Mom! Have seen several other Deer in the back, which are also in Healthy shape. NO EHD on my property todate.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2007 9:33:10 GMT -5
timex, The only problem I have with a statement about lesees like, "They are just as much conservation minded as the next guy or more so. Nobody wants to be on a poorly managed lease,..." is that it is hard to find a group of hunters that know what good or proper management is. We are making progress and hunters are constantly becoming better educated, but we still have a long way to go. And unfortunately, with the plethora of hunting shows that emphasize the wrong things and provide inaccurate management information, it's going to be a long and hard road. You missed the point. ALL of the THINGS that happen on or don't happen on a lease, also happen on other properties. People who decide to secure their hunting property with money vs. other means, for what ever reason are simply a segment of the population of hunters. They are no different then Joe Doe down on dad's farm when it comes to knowing how to manage the lands. In other words, it's not the fault of a lease contract and a few dollars changing hands.
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Post by drs on Sept 11, 2007 9:45:50 GMT -5
You missed the point. ALL of the THINGS that happen on or don't happen on a lease, also happen on other properties.
True
People who decide to secure their hunting property with money vs. other means, for what ever reason are simply a segment of the population of hunters. They are no different then Joe Doe down on dad's farm when it comes to knowing how to manage the lands. In other words, it's not the fault of a lease contract and a few dollars changing hands.
Except that some of those "well meaning" Hunters of which some have DEEP POCKETS and they can buy "Hunting Rights" away from "Joe Doe" who has hunted on that land for several years. Let not allow our "Sport of hunting" become some money making venture for a few greedy individuals!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2007 9:46:23 GMT -5
Fat deer...must not be in too good of condition? Urban areas are normally over crowded, thats why Urban Areas have a more liberal season limit and special season........worse so than any leased area as far as over populated. Gibson Co. has some EHD as does Knox Co. both are fairly populated with people. David, if you don't get EHD in your area, it's because your lucky. Hope it stays that way.
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Post by drs on Sept 11, 2007 9:50:59 GMT -5
Fat deer...must not be in too good of condition? Urban areas are normally over crowded, thats why Urban Areas have a more liberal season limit and special season........worse so than any leased area as far as over populated. Gibson Co. has some EHD as does Knox Co. both are fairly populated with people. David, if you don't get EHD in your area, it's because your lucky. Hope it stays that way. The Deer Herd, in my neck-of-the-woods are in GREAT shape without any signs of EHD. Gibson & Knox are not only larger in area than Vanderburgh Co. but the "Human" population is higher here in this "Urban County" of Vanderburgh then in those two counties mentioned.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2007 11:12:58 GMT -5
The Deer Herd, in my neck-of-the-woods are in GREAT shape without any signs of EHD. Gibson & Knox are not only larger in area than Vanderburgh Co. but the "Human" population is higher here in this "Urban County" of Vanderburgh then in those two counties mentioned. ...........some have DEEP POCKETS and they can buy "Hunting Rights" away from "Joe Doe" who has hunted on that land for several years.............. I've got some leased property in Vanderburg Co., wonder why it hasn't been hit with EHD??? Most of the folks that lease from us DO NOT have deep pockets, they just don't have any other means of which to secure land to hunt on. Nothing unusual as hunters become more urbanized. And most of the properties we list have severe trespassing problems when we get them. These are the "good ole boys" your speaking of, that have used the land for years without premission. A lot of farmers are forced to lease or close their lands totally because of it. surely, you'll agree that legal hunting is a lot better than illegal hunting???
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