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Post by ribbuster on Mar 26, 2009 9:16:46 GMT -5
If you feel deer hunting in general is so terrible here in Indiana and bigger bucks means so much to you why don't you move? The changes you propose are more favorable for trophy hunters and outfitters and less favorable for everyone else. We could restrict buck hunting to one weekend a year and we still wouldn't have the large racks you find in Iowa and Illinois. Again, if it's that important to you then MOVE/LEAVE or spend the cash and hunt somewhere that suits you. We have it pretty good here and there's more than enough restrictions on opportunity already, we certainly don't need more. In my opinion bow season should come in the first of September and last until Jan. 31st. Gun season should come in November 1st and last until Dec. 31st and muzzleloader should begin Dec 1st and last until Jan 31st. Roughly the same amount of bucks/does would be killed and everyone would have OPPORTUNITY to get out and enjoy the outdoors rather than this rush rush oh crap I can't hunt this weekend because of family obligations but maybe if I hurry I can get 20 minutes of treestand time this evening etc.. Then if you feel guilty hunting the rut with a gun you don't have to as you have OPPORTUNITY after the rut to hunt. Hunting season should be more about time spent with family and friends, time spent watching the seasons change right before your eyes and being thankful to your God about another opportunity rather than this distasteful fad of limiting everyone's opportunity for a few to hang bigger bones on the wall. You obviously know very little about solid deer herd management or you would of never published such rubbish here .Our state would be virtually deer less if the seasons opened up and stayed open by your season length and opening proposal in 2 or 3 years .So You defiantly need to move to maybe AL. or MS, where you get to shoot dog sized deer every day for 3 or 4 months .<---{boy you hear how great the deer and deer hunting is there all the time !!!} So YOU GO LEAVE/MOVE . I never said deer hunting was terrible I know for a fact it is headed in the wrong direction and has been for about 10 years in many aspects .I disdain outfitters first of all and IMO leasing for hunting should be made Illegal in our state .Or we could suffer and the deer herd would suffer more.Your part about no more deer would really get killed than do now statement is bizarre to say the least and not very well thought out it was just an attempt to rationalize the illadvised changes you want IMO. And if you or others can't seem to make it on time to the woods or even get out as much as you or they want simply make arrangements take days off from work or a week vacation to do so .But stop complaining because those not getting out in the 3 months of deer season we now have will still not get out if we added another 2 or 3 months because its obviously not that important to them or they would take time off or a hunting vacation like the vast majority of hunters who love to hunt already do! Lets face it if you need weeks on end or days and days on end to kill a deer or two in this state you just aren't hunting right or you need to get new hunting land right away.Or deer hunting is something that is not take seriously enough by those who struggle to get out or just dabble in it .Lets face it those are not the hunters who the state counts on to get the deer down yearly or would acctually miss any of them other than their tag money in reallity . I am almost 50 years old have coached football and baseball for 12 years attended every wrestling meet and football game my young men participated in for over 14 years .Have the same wife and 9hr a day job I have had for over 23 years and got done all I need to and still managed to kill the deer I wanted to every year and had plenty of woods time to enjoy and the home never suffered for it either. Even though our plates were full with everyday life and commitments it all got fitted in .I suggest that you or those having trouble getting out hunting make the time like all the others and I have You get no pitty here its just life we all have the same time constraints to a degree. So change your habits and hunting style or methods to get out of it whatever you or others want or quit hunting ,or just deal with it like the rest of us do. The deer herd should never suffer to make adjustments for the lazy/ or to busy few!That is the way I see it and we still could be better for all deer hunters and the herd here better bucks will never affect the brown is down guys they will always shoot their spikes ,forkies ,and six pointers and button bucks .. Not basheing but speaking facts that I and other have lived here.
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Post by ribbuster on Mar 26, 2009 9:31:59 GMT -5
You don't have to agree with the Ky. comparison, but it's well doucumented. And would work well in Indiana, and the good thing is that Indiana is almost there already. It took a good number of years before the one buck limit in Ky. started paying off well, over 10 years. Plus, it went faster as doe deer limits expanded, which is most likely what is coming to Indiana. Leasing doesn't even warrant a mention here because it isn't a factor. In fact, leases are better managed than are public lands and most private lands without a controlled harvest of some sort. Actually about 4 or 5 years ago KY held the number 5 spot in the top 10 P&Y states now they have fallen since to # 10 and are believed that they my continue the decline .Why is that ?? KY should of never been our roll model they were the laughing stock of deer management for years the management move they made was a knee jerk reaction to the critiques.Yes it worked for awhile and will likely level off as all management dose .But other changes will be needed there and here to take the next higher steps to the top of the heap. Limiting the neumber of bucks tsken is just a prelude or start to the finishing touches that will allow deer and hunters to micro manage the lanmd and deer they have and seasonal movements and reductions for legal buck taking is a must to step it up a notch. There are and was better ways than what they implemented and what we falloed them with.
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Post by indianahick on Mar 26, 2009 10:30:52 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with Indiana's seasons as they now are. They are not broken. Mr Fixits elongated seasons would not end up with a much larger deer harvest and thinking so is definitely doom and gloom thinking. Most hunters would end up doing as the do now. filing the freezer and quiting. The plant I worked at for 35 years allowed winter vacations, but there are many businesses that do not allow vacations past certain months or befor others as they call it their most productive time. Saying take a vacation during that time is like saying quit smoking and you can afford to do something. Is Bologna. Indiana's deer herd has probably reached it's potential as far as the carrying capacity of the land is concerned and if the carry capacity is surpassed the herd itself will suffer. Both in size of animals and definitely in antler size for you that kneel at the alter of bone enhanced by the holy book of the trophy.
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Post by ribbuster on Mar 26, 2009 10:42:16 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with Indiana's seasons as they now are. They are not broken. Mr Fixits elongated seasons would not end up with a much larger deer harvest and thinking so is definitely doom and gloom thinking. Most hunters would end up doing as the do now. filing the freezer and quiting. The plant I worked at for 35 years allowed winter vacations, but there are many businesses that do not allow vacations past certain months or befor others as they call it their most productive time. Saying take a vacation during that time is like saying quit smoking and you can afford to do something. Is Bologna. Indiana's deer herd has probably reached it's potential as far as the carrying capacity of the land is concerned and if the carry capacity is surpassed the herd itself will suffer. Both in size of animals and definitely in antler size for you that kneel at the alter of bone enhanced by the holy book of the trophy. Hick I understand what you are saying but do not buy the part about not being able to go hunting. If a hunter wants to get to the woods more they will no matter what .As far as not that many deer being killed that sir is as you put it Bologna !! The are alot of hunters who simply do not have an off switch most are young hunters that would gun hunt every day of the year and shoot every deer they can! Our season just need s to be moved a bit not taken away as I said befor hunters will get tpo the woods if they want to .there is no one that works day in and day out every day that cn not take a day or two off at anytime unlesss thay have attendance problems from the get go!!!
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Post by indianahick on Mar 26, 2009 11:01:06 GMT -5
Saying to take a vacation to go hunt or taking time off in the middle of the week there are simply companies out there that will not let you do it. My wife works at one. She can not take a vacation after mid Sept. Nor can she take a Monday or Friday off after that date. Personnel time after that date is frowned upon and usually met with remarks in the yearly personnel revue. Attendance problem, not her. The seasons do not need to be moved. PERIOD.
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Post by ribbuster on Mar 26, 2009 11:19:03 GMT -5
Saying to take a vacation to go hunt or taking time off in the middle of the week there are simply companies out there that will not let you do it. My wife works at one. She can not take a vacation after mid Sept. Nor can she take a Monday or Friday off after that date. Personnel time after that date is frowned upon and usually met with remarks in the yearly personnel revue. Attendance problem, not her. The seasons do not need to be moved. PERIOD. We will just agree to disagree and each have our own opinions .I respect that you have an opinion just as You I beleive respect that I have one .Good luck out there no matter what comes about in the rules.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2009 15:04:04 GMT -5
Actually about 4 or 5 years ago KY held the number 5 spot in the top 10 P&Y states now they have fallen since to # 10 and are believed that they my continue the decline .Why is that ?? KY should of never been our roll model they were the laughing stock of deer management for years the management move they made was a knee jerk reaction to the critiques.Yes it worked for awhile and will likely level off as all management dose .But other changes will be needed there and here to take the next higher steps to the top of the heap. Limiting the neumber of bucks tsken is just a prelude or start to the finishing touches that will allow deer and hunters to micro manage the lanmd and deer they have and seasonal movements and reductions for legal buck taking is a must to step it up a notch. There are and was better ways than what they implemented and what we falloed them with. Not even close to being acurate on most of your points. First off, Ky. has never rank real well in P & Y entrees, most of the time behind Ind. They have been in the top 10 most of the last decade in B & C rankings though. No real reason other than a lot of folks kill deer in the 125+ range and simply don't get them scored. Then, Ky. most likely will slip a bit soon, mostly because of two very severe EHD hits. Probably be a year or two and then back to producing 25-50 B & C bucks per year. Third, KY is not a laughing stock, for proof, just ask any well known expert on the quality of the deer managers on the Ky. payroll and the knowledge they have. 3-4 of the biologists are well know for their expertise in the deer/elk area. Most states would love to have whet KY has had for nearly 10 years now. Fourth, when Ky. went to a one buck limit, it was not a knee jerk reaction. It was done by popular demand, same as in Indiana. People wanted better bucks and surveys backed that opinion up. Hunter statisfaction is very high and nobody wants to revert back to one.
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Post by ribbuster on Mar 26, 2009 15:33:08 GMT -5
Actually about 4 or 5 years ago KY held the number 5 spot in the top 10 P&Y states now they have fallen since to # 10 and are believed that they my continue the decline .Why is that ?? KY should of never been our roll model they were the laughing stock of deer management for years the management move they made was a knee jerk reaction to the critiques.Yes it worked for awhile and will likely level off as all management dose .But other changes will be needed there and here to take the next higher steps to the top of the heap. Limiting the number of bucks taken is just a prelude or start to the finishing touches that will allow deer and hunters to micro manage the Land and deer they have and seasonal movements and reductions for legal buck taking is a must to step it up a notch. There are and was better ways than what they implemented and what we fallowed them with. Not even close to being accurate on most of your points. First off, Ky. has never rank real well in P & Y entrees, most of the time behind Ind. They have been in the top 10 most of the last decade in B & C rankings though. No real reason other than a lot of folks kill deer in the 125+ range and simply don't get them scored. Then, Ky. most likely will slip a bit soon, mostly because of two very severe EHD hits. Probably be a year or two and then back to producing 25-50 B & C bucks per year. Third, KY is not a laughing stock, for proof, just ask any well known expert on the quality of the deer managers on the Ky. payroll and the knowledge they have. 3-4 of the biologists are well know for their expertise in the deer/elk area. Most states would love to have whet KY has had for nearly 10 years now. Fourth, when Ky. went to a one buck limit, it was not a knee jerk reaction. It was done by popular demand, same as in Indiana. People wanted better bucks and surveys backed that opinion up. Hunter satisfaction is very high and nobody wants to revert back to one. My exact words were " they were the laughing stock " and they did not have the top of the line biologists when they jumped into what they have now . And please be correct and say "YOU " do not want to revert back not "Everybody" .They also can't be real big buck serious since they have that early muzzloader season now can they !!!Second you can blame EHD if you like but the current management system they have is just about maxed IMO. Those surveys that were sent out to "select few" were under less than auspicious conditions and should of been voted on by every deer hunting license holder in Indiana when they bought that years license. The surveys we took were front end loaded to favor the OBR with only one selection against and 4 that were construed as some sort of positive or neutral for it, and sent only to specific people and not everyone . Your statement about the survey and the feeling of most here in this state are woefully inaccurate!Thew OBR will fall by the wayside soon enough as the majority of our hunters loose and enchantment they had for it .If you like KY management so much maybe you should hunt there more often I was simply not that impressed I will likely not return there after two trips and seeing alot of young bucks maybe a 120 in 2.5 yearl old !I took a 164 in 14 pt monster in WI. on just one trip up there and passed a 140 class in IL and a 130 in OH. I have shot many from 125 up to 170 in. here in IN over the last 3.5 decades .I am not impressed at this point with the bigger picture here after the changes. But we are all entitled to our opinions as I have stated . You yours and me mine .Good luck in whatever rule setting we have to hunt here IN with your deer hunting.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2009 16:54:27 GMT -5
[My exact words were " they were the laughing stock " and they did not have the top of the line biologists when they jumped into what they have now . And please be correct and say "YOU " do not want to revert back not "Everybody" .They also can't be real big buck serious since they have that early muzzloader season now can they !!!Second you can blame EHD if you like but the current management system they have is just about maxed IMO. Those surveys that were sent out to "select few" were under less than auspicious conditions and should of been voted on by every deer hunting license holder in Indiana when they bought that years license. The surveys we took were front end loaded to favor the OBR with only one selection against and 4 that were construed as some sort of positive or neutral for it, and sent only to specific people and not everyone . Your statement about the survey and the feeling of most here in this state are woefully inaccurate!Thew OBR will fall by the wayside soon enough as the majority of our hunters loose and enchantment they had for it .If you like KY management so much maybe you should hunt there more often I was simply not that impressed I will likely not return there after two trips and seeing alot of young bucks maybe a 120 in 2.5 yearl old !I took a 164 in 14 pt monster in WI. on just one trip up there and passed a 140 class in IL and a 130 in OH. I have shot many from 125 up to 170 in. here in IN over the last 3.5 decades .I am not impressed at this point with the bigger picture here after the changes. But we are all entitled to our opinions as I have stated . You yours and me mine .Good luck in whatever rule setting we have to hunt here IN with your deer hunting. . When Ky. went to one buck, it was a 3 year process, and it was driven by a statistical survey....4 of them to be exact. Two of those were sent out to judge the precent of hunter satisfaction, which confirmed the popularity of the choice. There have been 4 other surveys in the past 15 years that have also gauged hunter statisfaction with the deer management program and the one buck limit. The precentage in approval has always been very high....over 80% in the last 3 of those surveys. The deer program at the time of the one buck change was ran by John Phillips, who was one of the best in the business at that time. He is actually the engineer that built back Ky. deer herds from the years when we did not have any deer except in a few select places. I'm fairly sure that John could still get a job in the deer management business somewhere if he wanted. By comparison, have you had any job offers lately?
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Post by ribbuster on Mar 26, 2009 18:09:51 GMT -5
[My exact words were " they were the laughing stock " and they did not have the top of the line biologists when they jumped into what they have now . And please be correct and say "YOU " do not want to revert back not "Everybody" .They also can't be real big buck serious since they have that early muzzled season now can they !!!Second you can blame EHD if you like but the current management system they have is just about maxed IMO. Those surveys that were sent out to "select few" were under less than auspicious conditions and should of been voted on by every deer hunting license holder in Indiana when they bought that years license. The surveys we took were front end loaded to favor the OBR with only one selection against and 4 that were construed as some sort of positive or neutral for it, and sent only to specific people and not everyone . Your statement about the survey and the feeling of most here in this state are woefully inaccurate!Thew OBR will fall by the wayside soon enough as the majority of our hunters loose and enchantment they had for it .If you like KY management so much maybe you should hunt there more often I was simply not that impressed I will likely not return there after two trips and seeing alot of young bucks maybe a 120 in 2.5 year old !I took a 164 in 14 pt monster in WI. on just one trip up there and passed a 140 class in IL and a 130 in OH. I have shot many from 125 up to 170 in. here in IN over the last 3.5 decades .I am not impressed at this point with the bigger picture here after the changes. But we are all entitled to our opinions as I have stated . You yours and me mine .Good luck in whatever rule setting we have to hunt here IN with your deer hunting. . When Ky. went to one buck, it was a 3 year process, and it was driven by a statistical survey....4 of them to be exact. Two of those were sent out to judge the percent of hunter satisfaction, which confirmed the popularity of the choice. There have been 4 other surveys in the past 15 years that have also gaged hunter satisfaction with the deer management program and the one buck limit. The percentage in approval has always been very high....over 80% in the last 3 of those surveys. The deer program at the time of the one buck change was ran by John Phillips, who was one of the best in the business at that time. He is actually the engineer that built back Ky. deer herds from the years when we did not have any deer except in a few select places. I'm fairly sure that John could still get a job in the deer management business somewhere if he wanted. By comparison, have you had any job offers lately? I am sorry I was talking about the Indiana's process in the previous thread not KY sorry for the confusion .
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Post by huxbux on Mar 26, 2009 20:59:34 GMT -5
You couldn't be more wrong. It's not possible my attitude is defeatist, because I'm not trying to "win", or even accomplish anything here. All I desire, is to retain my right to hunt deer without having to constantly wage political battle with those who wish to limit my opportunities in order to satisfy their own selfish interests.
And my point is, that this is exactly what you are doing in your advocacy for moving the gun season to a later date. Your supporting claims of it being the best thing for the overall health of the deer herd are fairly transparent when the gist of your posts is about rack size.
I will never understand what drives men to a need to control nature, any more than I'll ever understand why men feel a need to control other men.
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Post by lugnutz on Mar 26, 2009 21:25:43 GMT -5
You couldn't be more wrong. It's not possible my attitude is defeatist, because I'm not trying to "win", or even accomplish anything here. All I desire, is to retain my right to hunt deer without having to constantly wage political battle with those who wish to limit my opportunities in order to satisfy their own selfish interests. And my point is, that this is exactly what you are doing in your advocacy for moving the gun season to a later date. Your supporting claims of it being the best thing for the overall health of the deer herd are fairly transparent when the gist of your posts is about rack size. I will never understand what drives men to a need to control nature, any more than I'll ever understand why men feel a need to control other men. Excellent post! You couldn't of hit the nail anymore on the head than you just did!
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Post by ribbuster on Mar 26, 2009 23:03:19 GMT -5
I will never understand what drives men to a need to control nature, any more than I'll ever understand why men feel a need to control other men. [/quote] I got to tell you if I was true hard core QDM antler freak I would be worried about the size bucks people kill and begging them to kill all the doe deer they could. Frankly I don't give a crap if everyone on here goes out and kills a 90# busted up 4 point that 1.5 years old and 3 button bucks on their hunting ground .Because what you kill where you hunt will never ever affect my hunt on my land ever . I want my second buck back plain and simple I had em when I bought my lifetime license I want buck management options if needed on my ground. I would like to see the seasons tweaked a little and that will not hurt anyone here at all .Yes I like to kill good bucks so what! Its my hunt and ground not yours or lugs or hicks or Timex's .That is what makes it fun for me .I got tired of killing small racks years and years ago 1.5 year old bucks are as hard to kill as a pup groundhog eating beans with its back to ya, to me and they lost the luster they once had for me old bucks are a challenge that I do not always win. Some act like because there is two buck tags available to hunters they all just arbitrarily fill em .When we had two buck tags there were years I could of killed multiple bucks and simply didn't .Truth was there were only 3000 to 5000 hunters a year depending on the year killing two bucks that was it .All the OBR guys act like we saved some sky high number every year wow 3000 or 4000 a year stop the presses.That is ridiculous IMO what about the OBR its men ruling men isn't it ? That Quota of yours is a funny one to me because we as deer hunters attempt to control nature every time we enter the woods and pull the trigger on an animal . as a matter of a fact I have heard hunters say they would kill an animal they thought would not make it that had minor injuries so many want to play god as well over nothing but a limp or small wound out of season even I have seen this stuff posted on these sites time and time again . There is nothing natural about the way or seasons we hunt today its not year round for subsistence in any way the meat is an afterthought to most hunters or they would not kill more than they can eat other predators kill to survive so our reasons we hunt are suspect at the very best !!! And the fact that we have laws to protect others as well as the animals we love to hunt is an example of men controlling men everyday.I really do not understand what you are worried about you will still get to kill exactly the same animals you did before no one is trying to change that at all for any of you .I just don't get it I guess.
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Post by lugnutz on Mar 27, 2009 17:23:17 GMT -5
just a thought: move your hunting seasons around on your ground, since you said that your not too worried about others kill on their property. Just a thought tho
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Post by ribbuster on Mar 27, 2009 19:07:24 GMT -5
Because we all have to fallow the hunting seasons and rules that are set at this time!I do as much as I can on my own within the rules .We rarely see the woods prior to the last few days of OCT . As for gun I have to play when they say or wait til ML> and I have done that in the past !
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Post by mrfixit on Mar 28, 2009 6:24:16 GMT -5
You obviously know very little about solid deer herd management or you would of never published such rubbish here .Our state would be virtually deer less if the seasons opened up and stayed open by your season length and opening proposal in 2 or 3 years .So You defiantly need to move to maybe AL. or MS, where you get to shoot dog sized deer every day for 3 or 4 months .<---{boy you hear how great the deer and deer hunting is there all the time !!!} The reason the deer are small down south isn't due to the length of their hunting seasons. Please do a little research then come back and we will see exactly who's online spewing rubbish. Talk about bizarre?? There are several limiting factors you fail to take into consideration. The most obvious being state imposed kill limits, the costs of deer tags in general and last but not least there is only so much room in the freezer. The days of being Wild Bill Hickok on the range killing game and leaving the carcasses to lie untouched simply to screw over the Indians is over. Your "the sky will fall" argument has no merit and is more than a little bizarre to say the least. Here we go again, you obviously just glanced over what I wrote and hastily fashioned a retort. No one in Indiana needs or requires weeks or days to kill a couple deer. Heck, most people here in this state can kill that many blindfolded out their back door. The older I get the more deer I watch go by. It isn't about the killing but more about the hunt, more about LEGALLY being in the woods bearing a legal weapon and seeing what walks by my stand or blind, to relax and enjoy life at a slower pace. Hunting season doesn't need to be about rushing out there for two weeks and three weekends and shooting the first decent thing you see because you might not see anything else. If people didn't feel so freekin' rushed to fill that tag and get their moneys worth you would see a ton less spikes, fork horns and small 6 points taken. Just FYI I have a lifetime license so the costs of the tags means little to me other than the cost will eventually kill our sport and make it a rich mans game much like Europe. I should be able to burn up my vacation during the summer doing things that stimulate the economy and most importantly the relationship between my family and I rather than sitting in a tree stand or blind. Think of all the fathers out there that are forced to save their vacation and use it during our bizarrely short seasons and miss out on valuable time with their family. I have personally been there. done that, got the t-shirt and I've missed out on a big chunk of family time doing it. Now I have grandkids coming along, wow life sure blows by us at a fast pace doesn't it. Let's continue to keep the pressure on leisure and family time and keep the seasons short so MAYBE we can add 5 more points to that P&Y or B&C score! WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO!!!! Sounds like a wonderful plan doesn't it. Congratulations, you have lived the dream!! I'm 45 and I too have lived the dream. But now I am realizing the dream isn't quite what's it's billed. I'm starting to realize there is much more to life than rushing around hurrying up to get here and there, get this done and get that done. Screw that. We are so busy rushing through life living the supposed dream we miss out on some of the more obscure but equally important things. I want to change my hunting habits and style but you won't let me. You insist my hunting habits and style should consist of things within your parameters. What does it matter to you that I want to go out there with a legal firearm or muzzleloader and sit in a treestand for two of the coldest months and watch deer and life go by at a very slow pace? I shoot less than .0001% of deer that walk by my treestand or blind now. Lengthening the season isn't miracously going to make me want to kill every single deer I see, it merely provides more opportunity for you and I to be much much more selective in a legal setting.
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Post by ribbuster on Mar 28, 2009 10:44:00 GMT -5
You obviously know very little about solid deer herd management or you would of never published such rubbish here .Our state would be virtually deer less if the seasons opened up and stayed open by your season length and opening proposal in 2 or 3 years .So You defiantly need to move to maybe AL. or MS, where you get to shoot dog sized deer every day for 3 or 4 months .<---{boy you hear how great the deer and deer hunting is there all the time !!!} The reason the deer are small down south isn't due to the length of their hunting seasons. Please do a little research then come back and we will see exactly who's online spewing rubbish. Talk about bizarre?? There are several limiting factors you fail to take into consideration. The most obvious being state imposed kill limits, the costs of deer tags in general and last but not least there is only so much room in the freezer. The days of being Wild Bill Hickok on the range killing game and leaving the carcasses to lie untouched simply to screw over the Indians is over. Your "the sky will fall" argument has no merit and is more than a little bizarre to say the least. Here we go again, you obviously just glanced over what I wrote and hastily fashioned a retort. No one in Indiana needs or requires weeks or days to kill a couple deer. Heck, most people here in this state can kill that many blindfolded out their back door. The older I get the more deer I watch go by. It isn't about the killing but more about the hunt, more about LEGALLY being in the woods bearing a legal weapon and seeing what walks by my stand or blind, to relax and enjoy life at a slower pace. Hunting season doesn't need to be about rushing out there for two weeks and three weekends and shooting the first decent thing you see because you might not see anything else. If people didn't feel so freekin' rushed to fill that tag and get their moneys worth you would see a ton less spikes, fork horns and small 6 points taken. Just FYI I have a lifetime license so the costs of the tags means little to me other than the cost will eventually kill our sport and make it a rich mans game much like Europe. I should be able to burn up my vacation during the summer doing things that stimulate the economy and most importantly the relationship between my family and I rather than sitting in a tree stand or blind. Think of all the fathers out there that are forced to save their vacation and use it during our bizarrely short seasons and miss out on valuable time with their family. I have personally been there. done that, got the t-shirt and I've missed out on a big chunk of family time doing it. Now I have grandkids coming along, wow life sure blows by us at a fast pace doesn't it. Let's continue to keep the pressure on leisure and family time and keep the seasons short so MAYBE we can add 5 more points to that P&Y or B&C score! WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO!!!! Sounds like a wonderful plan doesn't it. Congratulations, you have lived the dream!! I'm 45 and I too have lived the dream. But now I am realizing the dream isn't quite what's it's billed. I'm starting to realize there is much more to life than rushing around hurrying up to get here and there, get this done and get that done. Screw that. We are so busy rushing through life living the supposed dream we miss out on some of the more obscure but equally important things. I want to change my hunting habits and style but you won't let me. You insist my hunting habits and style should consist of things within your parameters. What does it matter to you that I want to go out there with a legal firearm or muzzleloader and sit in a treestand for two of the coldest months and watch deer and life go by at a very slow pace? I shoot less than .0001% of deer that walk by my treestand or blind now. Lengthening the season isn't miraculously going to make me want to kill every single deer I see, it merely provides more opportunity for you and I to be much much more selective in a legal setting. You have to know what you want to would be fine if thats all everyone wanted to do but most hunters do not go out to sit in a tree for 2 months with a gun .They go out to kill deer period .Notice I said most not all. There are alot of hunters who given the chance would kill every legal deer they could and then some .In some counties and areas that is 10 ,12 14 ,16 deer .How long would it be before the herd would be decimated to the point it would no longer support even the current hunting seasons or number of hunters ? You have 3 months to just go set in a stand already .The kicker is it just cant be done with a gun and that is what you struggle with .And that sir is what keeps deer in the woods from one year to the next, is the short range nature of the weapons used for the other two months that guns are not allowed into the woods .Gun hunters take approximately 100,000 of the around 125,000 deer taken annually the numbers show what would happen if we tacked on another 30 days of gun hunting could we really take the removal of say 75,000 or god forbid 100,000 more a year . No plain and simple .Its a known fact most successful hunters here only take 2 deer as an average .What if they now kill just 2 more a year each and make the hunter kill average 4 instead of 2? I will tell you hunting here would be awful it would be like it was back in the late 1970s and early 1980s where you may only see 3 or 4 deer a year and the taking of a buck let alone seeing a few bucks of any size a year would be remarkable. Lets face it most hunters go out to kill what they are after and the youngest amongst us are in the fill every tag stage of their hunting life most not all .Now that being said the fact that guns get 2 weeks and ML get two weeks speaks wonders for the efficacy and rate at witch hunters kill deer in just that short time . "I "want to change the way "you" hunt !! NO not at all .You will still get to set on a tree as long as you want you just can't do it all with a gun and even now none of us cant set there in a tree as long as you want with a gun .By the way I enjoy hunting with a gun its a great change of pace. If the DNR thought it was a good idea to run a 3 month long gun season it would of been done 3 years ago I think. No thanks not for me thank you .
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Post by Woody Williams on Mar 28, 2009 11:57:41 GMT -5
OK... my two cents worth..
I do not believe for a minute that:
1) increasing the length of the firearm season would result in a lot more deer killed. It would still be a "full freezer is a full freezer" for most deer hunters. Most are perfectly happy with one deer, if they get that. What I think we would see is firearm deer hunters becoming more selective. Just as the three month season long bowhunters are.
2) decreasing the length of the fireram seasons would result in a lot less deer being killed - UNLESS we had a horrific weather problem. What I think we would see is firearm deer hunters becoming less selective. Sort of like what we see now when it comes down to the last weekend of the firearm season. Most times something is going to die and most do not care whether it is a yearling buck or doe.
Personally I do not see anything wrong with the way the firearms seasons are laid out now. That includes the length and time period.This is one of those " if it ain't broke, don't fix it" deals. At least for me. Contrary to some beliefs our general firearm season most times is on the tail end of the rut.
I would support extending the muzzleloader season to the end of Decemeber though. The smokepolers do a yeoman's job at whacking does.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2009 14:26:25 GMT -5
When you have legislators thinking about ways to reduce the deer herd, you'll have a VERY hard time convincing the DNR to shorten the gun seasons. No doubt a shorter gun season could eventually kill as many deer as are being killed now, but it would take a mind set change and a risk by the DNR of losing the ability to manage the herd. They already have data for what's in place now and will be very relucent to make drastic season structure changes, especially in the way that might result in less doe harvest. Buck harvest doesn't really factor in, as it wouldn't change a lot. The overall numbers are what's important and keeping that number in check.
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Post by mrfixit on Mar 28, 2009 18:10:18 GMT -5
.The kicker is it just cant be done with a gun and that is what you struggle with . Obviously you haven't a clue about me or my hunting habits. There may be a few people here that spend more time in the woods than me but it would be a very few. I struggle with nothing other than someone trying to limit opportunity. Again, using scare tactics to limit everyone's opportunity. Run for the hills, run for your lives!! And as if the last paragraph wasn't enough scare tactics now we are forced to hear more. People are going to kill the same amount of deer no matter how long the seasons are. Again, people are limited by 1} state bag limits 2} the sheer costs of tags and everything that happens after the actual kill and last but not least 3}a full freezer is a full freezer no matter how you fill it. If there was any value to your argument we would be seeing the beginning of the end even as we good heartedly argue the merits of our particular side of this issue. Just look at the tremendously generous anterless bag limits. Please explain to me how the tool a person uses is going to change things so dramatically. It makes absolutely no difference if a deer is killed using a bow, crossbow, shotgun, PCR or muzzleloader. A dead deer in the freezer is still a dead deer. Allowing someone longer to be more selective is not going to dramatically change anything, except lower the numbers of spikes, fork horns and small six points taken. Just because it isn't your cup of tea doesn't mean others wouldn't enjoy it or have an opportunity to go out and enjoy an afternoon in the woods during what would be "out of season" now. As it is now I'm pretty much out in the woods at every chance from the beginning of bow until the end of muzzleloader and sporadically after that as it's getting mighty close to Christmas by then. Of course it doesn't affect me with a lifetime license but to pay what they want for a tag then get to go hunting once or twice over a two week season doesn't make to much sense. I truly believe if our sport is to survive long term we need to open up avenues of opportunity rather than place limits on options while we raise the costs. Whether you wish to believe it or not in the not so far off future the very existence of the second amendment is going to be dependent somewhat on the sport of hunting. A perfect example would be Great Britain. First opportunity for the masses was limited. I'll let you go do a little reading and see what happened next.
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