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Post by trapperdave on Jul 21, 2009 12:45:45 GMT -5
guess ya better turn off your headlights off when ya turn the corner, in case the light shines someones house to those that use the argument that SOME will use it to poach.... how do you like the argument that guns should be outlawed because SOME will use them to murder?
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Post by racktracker on Jul 21, 2009 13:11:37 GMT -5
I absolutely abhor laws that affect everyone and that are made on the premise of what a relatively few MIGHT do.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2009 15:34:20 GMT -5
All true......BUT the part your overlooking is that a CO or LE officer can't tell a poacher from a lawful spotlighter UNTIL he makes a stop or a deer dies. It's a drain on the resource .
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Post by jrbhunter on Jul 21, 2009 16:01:46 GMT -5
As I mentioned before, our local CO's can often tell a poacher from a casual spotlighter by the way they're running a light, posturing the vehicle, how long they stop, and how they manuvre backroads. This doesn't mean they don't check random spotlighters as time allows.
The argument that spotlighting drains the resources of IDNR seems weak. Are coyote hunters poaching deer? Are gun hunters carrying legal caliber PCR's? Are bow hunters licensed? How would a CO know without checking?
It's their job to enforce the laws, which entails making stops. Saying it's "Easier to outlaw it than regulate it" would just as easily transfer straight over to everything from hunting to fishing to boating to gun ownership. Slippery Slope.
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Post by jrbhunter on Jul 21, 2009 16:06:16 GMT -5
Is a camera flash and a handheld flashlight really apples and oranges?
Sure is.
So what about a compact 25ACP in the coat pocket versus a 300Win Mag with a Night Vision scope laying across the seat?
Apples and Oranges. The world's a safer place when criminals don't know who's armed.
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Post by freedomhunter on Jul 21, 2009 16:23:27 GMT -5
Whats the difference between a spotlight beam hitting a deer or a trail cam flash (beam of light) hitting a deer? I would say if spotlighting is outlawed then trail cams with a flash also should fall into the same catagory as spotlights. The issue involves the beam hitting houses and windows in those houses. The "non-hunting" segment of the local population doesn't know if a bullet is about to follow or not. We need to appaise ALL of the non-hunting population that we can. Note, these people are not anti-hunters until we turn them into one. I guess that is kind of my thinking, it is not hunting, but the non-hunting public sees the activity and may be affected by it. Whatever, I'm not really affected by it and don't do it but maybe once a year, but if I had managed ground I owned and had bubba and his kid spotlighting the big bucks using my property, you bet I would have a dog in the fight.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2009 16:26:31 GMT -5
As I mentioned before, our local CO's can often tell a poacher from a casual spotlighter by the way they're running a light, posturing the vehicle, how long they stop, and how they manuvre backroads. This doesn't mean they don't check random spotlighters as time allows. The argument that spotlighting drains the resources of IDNR seems weak. Are coyote hunters poaching deer? Are gun hunters carrying legal caliber PCR's? Are bow hunters licensed? How would a CO know without checking? It's their job to enforce the laws, which entails making stops. Saying it's "Easier to outlaw it than regulate it" would just as easily transfer straight over to everything from hunting to fishing to boating to gun ownership. Slippery Slope. How can they tell if a firearm or archery gear is in the vehicle without stopping it? If they have to work all night patrolling for spotlighters, who works during the day?
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Post by jrbhunter on Jul 21, 2009 16:50:33 GMT -5
Of course they have to stop a vehicle if they intend to check it for weapons, but even weapons don't mean poachers. Dare I estimate that dozens of guys get ticketed while spotlighting on their way home from a hunt? Not jacklighting, not poaching, but shining with a weapon. Still an infraction- which constitutes the checks- and a ticket.
If the law was changed to prohibit spotlighting, it wouldn't stop a poacher. If CCW permits were taken away, it wouldn't stop a mugger.
We can play hypotheticals til' the cows come home, but the seasoned officers know their jobs and they know their constituancy. It is their job to enforce the laws, 24/7, and *WE* pay them for it. Simplifying their job at the expense of our rights is putting the cart before the horse.
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on Jul 21, 2009 16:58:15 GMT -5
I know from experience that other law enforcement will pull you over too...I think I've been stopped maybe 4 or 5 times,just once by a CO...The other times were by the State Police and County Police staked out off road...After a quick search for beer and guns,I was on my way...Even if the spotlighting were illegal,poachers would still find some other way to get around it like most criminals do...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2009 17:01:10 GMT -5
Of course they have to stop a vehicle if they intend to check it for weapons, but even weapons don't mean poachers. They would be in violation, which means they are poachers per sey.......still requires a CO's time when he could be better used elsewhere
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Post by duff on Jul 21, 2009 18:14:37 GMT -5
So chasing EVERY beam of light won't take their time? I don't follow, now it is at the discretion of a LEO to check a spot lighter. If some type of law like this passes the LEO will be forced to chase every beam. Don't be naive enough to think everyone will know it is illegal. I don't follow this type of thinking that regulating activities because of a select few that already break existing laws will all of a sudden stop because the law changes....And this is coming from die hard NRA supports. I don't buy this is gaining momentum from non-hunters either. There can't be that many houses getting shined. Maybe a few in popular areas are getting hit on a regular but the VAST majority have never had that problem. I do believe it is being pushed by hunters who don't want deer shined on the land they control.
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Post by greghopper on Jul 21, 2009 19:14:33 GMT -5
So chasing EVERY beam of light won't take their time? I don't follow, now it is at the discretion of a LEO to check a spot lighter. If some type of law like this passes the LEO will be forced to chase every beam. Don't be naive enough to think everyone will know it is illegal. I don't follow this type of thinking that regulating activities because of a select few that already break existing laws will all of a sudden stop because the law changes....And this is coming from die hard NRA supports. I don't buy this is gaining momentum from non-hunters either. There can't be that many houses getting shined. Maybe a few in popular areas are getting hit on a regular but the VAST majority have never had that problem. I do believe it is being pushed by hunters who don't want deer shined on the land they control.[/size][/color] BINGO..... the sad part of this is the State of INDIANA owns all the game
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Post by trapperdave on Jul 22, 2009 9:15:31 GMT -5
Of course they have to stop a vehicle if they intend to check it for weapons, but even weapons don't mean poachers. They would be in violation, which means they are poachers per sey.......still requires a CO's time when he could be better used elsewhere thats his freaking JOB!
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Post by tickman1961 on Jul 22, 2009 14:12:31 GMT -5
Private landowners should be able to shine any light they want as long as a weapon is not on their person.....but, like said earlier, what about CCW permit holders, are they exempt? Looks like a question for Buster.
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Post by throbak on Jul 22, 2009 16:45:55 GMT -5
spotlighting with hard antlers on should be against the law period...then the LE would not have to check for any thing its against the LAW if you cant scout other ways don't be lazy by spotlighting the day you come to hunt...SIGNED TIRED OF LOSING BC,s to spot lighters bust em all
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Post by trapperdave on Jul 22, 2009 23:46:19 GMT -5
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Post by tenring on Jul 23, 2009 5:58:54 GMT -5
Anybody on this board old enough to remember when you could buy a new car that had a spotlight built on from the factory? Anybody remember one of the main reasons they quit putting them on cars?
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Post by firstwd on Jul 23, 2009 6:31:54 GMT -5
Thanks Dave.
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Post by Decatur on Jul 23, 2009 7:49:46 GMT -5
Couldn't have said it better!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 9:29:54 GMT -5
Couldn't have said it better! Do you really see humor in someone poaching a deer with or without a light from someone elses property? That's weird in it's self.
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