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Post by Decatur on Jan 20, 2010 13:29:05 GMT -5
You don't need any charge to seure P-R monies, just a renewal card, or some other way to show LL holders are still kicking.
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Post by omegahunter on Jan 20, 2010 13:39:54 GMT -5
In that case, let all of us with current lifetime licenses have the option to help our state by getting free renewal cards as well. Like I said, I would even go the $3-4 to defray costs incurred in implementing renewals.
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Post by Decatur on Jan 20, 2010 14:30:57 GMT -5
They could also have a link on their site where you sign in each year.
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Post by throbak on Jan 20, 2010 17:19:48 GMT -5
no way should a lifetime licence holder be required to pay a dime EVER ...what part of LIFETIME is not understood
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 20, 2010 18:02:43 GMT -5
This is from a Natrural Resources Legislative Study Committee last year...
Lifetime Hunting and Fishing Licenses
John Davis distributed a handout describing the fiscal impact of lifetime hunting licenses on DNR. (Exhibit 6). The Chairperson also had LSA staff distribute HB 1244-2009 (Exhibit 7) which would have required DNR to make available lifetime hunting and fishing licenses if it had been enacted into law.
Mr. Davis indicated that, before DNR discontinued the sale of lifetime licenses, 48,467 lifetime licenses were sold. Approximately 89% of those licenses are comprehensive hunting licenses. A comprehensive hunting license can be used in lieu of all yearly licenses to hunt. At today's annual hunting fee of $17, a lifetime comprehensive hunting license could cost as much as $1,020. Mr. Davis stated that the dedicated fish and wildlife fund is currently losing $2.4 million annually in revenue from the previous sale of the lifetime comprehensive hunting licenses. He stated that if one out of ten of the non-lifetime licensed hunters purchases a lifetime license, the fish and wildlife fund could see an additional $1.1 million in lost revenue per year.
Mark Reiter testified that many states are getting out of the business of providing lifetime licenses. He then described how the DNR is looking at ways to bundle different types of licenses at a discount.
WW - That sounds like they coudl be considering a yearly Sportsman's License.
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Post by Decatur on Jan 20, 2010 18:54:56 GMT -5
I hope so!
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Post by xizang on Jan 20, 2010 19:16:09 GMT -5
I am not a LL holder, but if offered I would purchase one. I understand and agree with the problems with issuing lifetime license, but something needs to be adjusted with deer tags. OBR, how about one buck tag with any weapon. This also costs the state lost revenue. Doe harvest with unused tags? There are other ideas that have been tossed around, but the ones making the decisions don't seem to be listening. My $.02, but I am sure that someone will pick apart my opinion to death.
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Post by huxbux on Jan 20, 2010 20:53:16 GMT -5
Something will eventually have to change. As it stands now, the only way to increase revenues is to: 1 Increase hunter numbers 2 increase annual license fees This means that all new hunters recruited will be regularly asked to pay increased license fees to fund the ever spiraling costs of funding the DFW, while existing LL holders will bear none of the increased costs. Hunter recruitment programs, youth licenses, apprentice licenses, etc will be for naught if we fail to retain these recruits as they reach adulthood because the license fees are so high, they're priced right out of the sport.
Just something to think about.
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Post by Decatur on Jan 20, 2010 21:13:46 GMT -5
I agree Hux, but if I were a current LL holder, I would be very upset if I were forced to pay more for something I already paid for. It's a sticky wicket.
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Post by huxbux on Jan 20, 2010 22:20:10 GMT -5
True enough. It is a delicate matter. However, those who have recouped the cost of their LL and then some, and then some more, may have to eventually ask themselves "What am I contributing to support the sport of hunting?"
Label me a pessimist, but I don't hold much hope for the future of our sport for the next generation.
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Post by Decatur on Jan 20, 2010 22:35:47 GMT -5
I used to think antis were our biggest threat, no I know the biggest threat is us!
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Post by mrfixit on Jan 21, 2010 6:28:16 GMT -5
I paid a bunch of money for my lifetime permit and no way should I ever owe the state another dime to hunt what belongs to Indiana residents for the rest of my life. In reality anyone living in this state and filing a state tax return shouldn't have to pay a dime to hunt what legally belongs to them. This whole State vs The People thing is just wrong. In reality the State government/DNR are there to serve us, not there to figure out how to stick another tax in our collective arses and that's exactly what all these extra fees and licences costs are, another tax. I paid my tax early and it isn't my fault or any other lifetime license holders fault the state failed to properly invest the monies they willfully took from us before issuing our lifetime licenses. They have backed themselves into a corner with a very short sighted fiscal policy and it's no one's fault but their own. They raised the tag costs to the point young people just getting started can't afford to hunt and the older people that can afford it are beginning to get to old or have other obligations and don't hunt as much as they used to. To have to spend almost 25 dollars for one tag or 50 dollars for two tags just to hunt 3 weekends during gun season is outright ridiculous. No darn wonder the hunting population is getting older. I would venture less than 3 percent of hunters can afford to spend their vacation during deer season so that only leaves the weekends to hunt for 97 percent of hunters, thats freaking crazy and no wonder tag sales aren't funding everything they want to fund. It's going to get worse as less and less young people hunt and the older hunters begin to realize it just ain't worth it all that much money for such a short time to hunt. We are just beginning to see this trend and it's going to get much worse before it gets better. They need to figure out another way to fund themselves if they wish to continue with their current fiscal policies. I wonder how many of those 47000 lifetimes licenses holders since 83 are actually still alive and hunting. It's probably half or less so the money they are "losing" is probably half of what they are stating. It's to freakin' early for this geeeeeeeez more taxes less rights and more of the same "they aren't paying their fair share" whining.
/endrant!
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Post by omegahunter on Jan 21, 2010 7:16:48 GMT -5
As I said, give current holders the OPTION of contributing back to the sport with a free renewal each year to earn P/R credits. If it were free, there would be no reason for anyone to bellyache.
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Post by js2397 on Jan 21, 2010 8:11:32 GMT -5
True enough. It is a delicate matter. However, those who have recouped the cost of their LL and then some, and then some more, may have to eventually ask themselves "What am I contributing to support the sport of hunting?" Label me a pessimist, but I don't hold much hope for the future of our sport for the next generation. I have recouped mine and then some. My contribution is helping to manage the deer herd for free. I don't charge the state to do a job that must be done. Hunters bear the burden to keep the DNR running but all Hoosiers benefit in some way from the wildlife. I think everyone should help to fund the DNR. How about an extra $1 per year for your driver's license, license plates, and auto insurance. There are 4.5 million licensed drivers in Indiana and probably at least the same amount of vehicles. This could generate 10s of millions of dollars for the DNR annually.
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Post by throbak on Jan 21, 2010 9:03:08 GMT -5
Before I retired I bought all the toys I needed. my lifetime licence was one of them. in place of licence each year I now I get a environmental plate .I would be more than happy to email the DNR to confirm my existence .the IRS has no problem and i don't work any more
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Post by tickman1961 on Jan 21, 2010 10:05:14 GMT -5
Hunting and fishing are now "big business" and aren't going anywhere. The multitude of, new products and outdoor programs on satellite television shows me just how far hunting has come in the last 20 years. All the doomdays predictions about our heritage being lost is ridiculous, more women are joining the sports than ever before, that alone could start a movement back to nature. Women have a tremendous role to play in the future of both fishing and hunting. Call me an optimist, but the business side of me says the futures so bright we have to wear shades. We are living "the good old days" right now.
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Post by Decatur on Jan 21, 2010 10:28:22 GMT -5
Hunting becoming a big business is bittersweet. When I was younger, I always wished hunting was more mainstream, now that it is happening, I would like to retract that wish. Hunting becoming big business is what is killing the sport. Business brings greed, and whether it's the greed for bigger antlers, or the greed of charging so much money for a lease that only the rich can afford it, or the greed of wanting only your style of hunting to be legal and causing us, the real hunters, which used to be a tight knit community, to fight amongst ourselves, it's all greed, and it's all killing hunting.
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Post by tenring on Jan 21, 2010 11:13:16 GMT -5
I retired a couple of years ago, started stocking up on supplies about 8 years ago, purchased the lifetime license way back when [as an investment], now pay for an underprivileged youth to attend the Carl Kelly camp [hopefully to keep them out of jail, and to get interested in the great outdoors and hunting], and will send a boy to the Mollenhour camp for the same purpose. Maybe before it's dirt nap time, I can get lucky and replace me as a hunter and a lover of the great outdoors. Son went south in that category [it's his mothers fault] so I guess I'm trying to fill that void, and I darn sure can't afford it, but I'm doing it anyway.
And if I shouldn't have to pay a dime to hunt game that legally belongs to me [which by the way, it doesn't, the law clearly says that the State owns them], then I shouldn't have to ask permission to trespass on private property to hunt something that belongs to me in the first place. Catch 22! Flame away, this is good stuff.
Forgot to add, I have an environmental plate on my truck.
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Post by js2397 on Jan 21, 2010 11:45:01 GMT -5
And if I shouldn't have to pay a dime to hunt game that legally belongs to me [which by the way, it doesn't, the law clearly says that the State owns them], then I shouldn't have to ask permission to trespass on private property to hunt something that belongs to me in the first place. Catch 22! Flame away, this is good stuff. We are the state. Also if something of yours ends up on my property you still have to ask permission to retrieveit.
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Post by huxbux on Jan 21, 2010 17:39:08 GMT -5
IMO, reinstating the LL will only achieve the same result as the first round of LL sales- a quick infusion of cash and then back to an insufficient revenue stream again. It's a short- lived solution at best and one that has proved to be disastrous in the long run. The DFW needs funding to properly manage the resource, that's the simple reality. It's not so much a matter of whats fair, what's been promised, or even of principle. It's a matter of saving our sport for the common people. If, as sportsman, we can't put our heads together and resolve the issue, we're doomed to a private takeover of wildlife management, effectively pricing most of us out of the sport.
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