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Post by taximan on Feb 3, 2010 19:20:46 GMT -5
please forgive me I havent hunted in indiana very long but was curious as to why a hunter can use a hi po rifle for coyotes but has to use a shotgun for deer. I dont use shotgun, I just stick with my CVA optima elite mzldr but was just curious, anyone know why that law is in effect?
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Post by Ahawkeye on Feb 3, 2010 20:11:52 GMT -5
There's not much need for a big rifle in Indiana in my opinion, not enough open space to use one either most of the time a shotgun can get out far enough to get the job done on a deer. Way more deer hunters than coyote hunters too.
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Post by vectrix on Feb 3, 2010 20:53:29 GMT -5
I believe it's because the hunter #'s are much higher during deer firearms increasing the odd's of a stray bullet vs coyote season where not near as many hunters are afield.
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Post by INDeerhunter on Feb 3, 2010 22:19:58 GMT -5
Im not totally sure what the reasons are behind the rule either but I agree it prolly has to do with the high volume of gun hunters during deer season. Yet Indiana has now allowed the use of some rifle use durin deer season. Well its more less hig caliber rounds in single shot firearms like the 500 s&w and so forth, which imo is not much different from using high powered rifles in other states. MY father has recently purchased the 500 s&w and has great accuracy at distances that he was never ablet to even think of shottin prior to the state allowin such firearms. I truly would be concerned though if we started bein able to use a 300 weatherby mag or something for deer huntin. We got a lot of deer hunters in a lot less hunting area around my parts of the state and I dont think we need to be chancin more hunting accidents by use of hp rifles.
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Post by Decatur on Feb 3, 2010 22:46:36 GMT -5
Here we go! ;d
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Post by taximan on Feb 3, 2010 22:54:01 GMT -5
thanks for you answers I was just wondering clear reason...
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Post by dbd870 on Feb 4, 2010 0:00:24 GMT -5
Another time this came up someone posted that at the time it was to limit the number of deer taken.
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Post by tickman1961 on Feb 4, 2010 9:52:58 GMT -5
Any weapon is legal because:
Coyote is considered vermin and the State of Indiana would like to control the population. Any critter that can push out game species needs managed and controlled, predators like the coyote are smart critters and more difficult to get within a shotguns range and a muzzleloader would not be considered adequate for follow up shots.
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Post by drs on Feb 4, 2010 11:15:42 GMT -5
Here in Ky any centerfire rifle is legal, but a lot of Deer Hunters use shotgun sabot slugs in area where the shots are close and so are homes. NOW back when I lived in Indiana a Squirrel Hunter could use a reduced load in a centerfire rifle, like a .22 Hornet, which was legal, but in Ky you can't use a centerfire rifle for hunting Squirrels, only rimfires, airguns, or shotguns.
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Post by HuntMeister on Feb 4, 2010 12:39:40 GMT -5
Any weapon is legal because: Coyote is considered vermin and the State of Indiana would like to control the population. Any critter that can push out game species needs managed and controlled, predators like the coyote are smart critters and more difficult to get within a shotguns range and a muzzleloader would not be considered adequate for follow up shots. This is an official interpatation? Where do I find it?
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Post by drs on Feb 4, 2010 13:17:43 GMT -5
Any weapon is legal because: Coyote is considered vermin and the State of Indiana would like to control the population. Any critter that can push out game species needs managed and controlled, predators like the coyote are smart critters and more difficult to get within a shotguns range and a muzzleloader would not be considered adequate for follow up shots. Why is there a general season on Coyote in Indiana??
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Post by dbd870 on Feb 4, 2010 13:56:07 GMT -5
Any weapon is legal because: Coyote is considered vermin and the State of Indiana would like to control the population. Any critter that can push out game species needs managed and controlled, predators like the coyote are smart critters and more difficult to get within a shotguns range and a muzzleloader would not be considered adequate for follow up shots. Why is there a general season on Coyote in Indiana?? Don't forget about this (from guide) "landowners may take coyotes at any time on the land they own or provide written permission for others to take coyotes on their land at any time, without a permit. Coyotes that are taken outside the hunting and trapping season by a landowner or someone with written permission from a landowner cannot be possessed live for more than 24 hours, and the live coyote cannot be sold, traded, bartered or gifted." I hereby give anyone who I have hunt on my land permission to blast the @#%%^$# things at will.
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Post by Decatur on Feb 4, 2010 14:38:20 GMT -5
It has to be WRITTEN permission!
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Post by drs on Feb 4, 2010 15:08:09 GMT -5
It has to be WRITTEN permission! Coyotes may be taken year round here in Ky.
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Post by jkd on Feb 4, 2010 15:43:22 GMT -5
I don't think hunter safety had anything to do with it, historically speaking... Indiana began reintroducing deer in the 30's, and had the first open season in 1951. An excerpt from an old Division of Fish & Game (precursor to today's IDNR Fish & Wildlife) describes that hunt and results (see below).
My belief is that the biologists of the day didn't want to see the newly reintroduced herd wiped out, so hunters were limited to bow or shotgun w/ slugs. Both were considered short range weapons in the day, with the old "punkin' ball" slugs dropping to earth pretty quick when fired from smooth bore guns. It is noteworthy that buckshot was not allowed, even though it was used in many other states during that time, and gave hunters an edge when hunting in heavy brush if they employed what today we call "spray and pray" shooting.
My dad started as a wildlife biologists for Fish & Game in 1953, having come from being a game warden in Montana and graduated with a bio degree there. In talking to him, he indicated that the first couple of seasons in Indiana were "open" in select counties, meaning anything was legal - does or bucks, and there were NO BAG LIMITS. As a result, as my dad says, "They really mowed'em down...", and quickly changed to a buck only season when it became apparent that the hunting pressure was quickly eliminating a large percentage of the rebuilt herd. According to him, hunter safety was never an issue in terms of deer hunting weapons at that time. It was strictly a function of efforts to limit the number of deer being taken, and trying to insure that the herd was not decimated before it could re-establish populations across the state.
That is the legacy of firearms deer hunting in Indiana, and until recently, had never been changed...
Here's the old report section...
FIRST OPEN SEASON
The White-tailed Deer Investigation had progressed to the point in 1951 that we knew where the deer were, approximately how many, something of their rate of increase, and limiting factors. Many of the basic facts necessary for proper management were still unknown but it became increasingly apparent that an open hunting season was needed to scatter herds, relieve crop damage, and curb illegal kills. The 1951 population estimate was 4,943 animals, quite an increase from 1944. About 4,500 of these were in 17 counties which were believed to be ready for an open season. The 1951 General Assembly gave the Director of the Division of Fish and Game discretionary powers to issue orders regulating the hunting and killing of deer. A hunt plan including regulations was formulated and submitted to the Director of Fish and Game.
The first open deer hunting season in 58 years was held November 1, 2, and 3, 1951. In brief, it was an "any deer" season in 17 counties, with shotgun slugs and bow and arrows only. The number of licenses sold was not limited. They were issued at a cost of five dollars to residents only. Information on the hunt was collected by compulsory return of postal card reports issued with licenses, while Pittman-Robertson personnel and conservation officers manned 6 checking stations in 5 herd areas where successful hunters were interviewed and deer examined. Nearly everyone agreed that the open season was an unqualified success. Consideration and cooperation of hunters and landowners was above reproach. It was characterized by splendid landowner-hunter relations, a high degree of gun safety was maintained, and hunters were well pleased. In total 633 deer were brought to checking stations where they were hog-dressed, weighed, and age determined by tooth-wear charts. In total. 12,182 licenses were sold; 10,002 licensees returned hunt reports.
Farmers hunting on their own land without licenses were reported by conservation officers to have killed 32 animals. Licensees reported bagging 1,558, thus the total known kill was 1,590 bucks, does, and fawns. This indicates that 13 per cent of the licensees were successful. Bows and arrows could be used in any of 17 open counties and approximately 8,600 acres of Brown County State Park were open to archery hunters only. Three deer were taken by archers, one by a 14 year old lad. About half the deer taken were bagged on the first day of the hunt, while on the second and third days, 24 per cent and 25 per cent were recorded. Greatest success was attained between 7 A.M. and 11 A.M., as more than half of the kills were made during these hours.
Based on interviews of 633 successful hunters, each man hunted about a day and a half, saw 3 1/2 deer, shot at I 1/2, and hit one. The average range on the first shot was 48 yards. Evidently the shotgun slug was effective, for 47 per cent of the animals dropped in their tracks, 36 per cent ran 1 to 50 yards, 15 per cent ran from 51 yards to a half mile, and 2 per cent ran farther than a half mile before dropping.
Adult bucks comprised 39 per cent of the kill; adult does, 30 per cent; and fawns, 31 per cent. Considering both adult and fawns, bucks constituted 55 per cent of the kill.
Both entire and hog-dressed animals were brought to checking stations for examination. Weights before and after hog-dressing, including removal of heart, liver, and lungs, indicated that adults lost approximately 18 per cent, and fawns 20 per cent in gutting. Total length from tip of nose to tip of tail bone and hind foot measurements were taken to compare skeletal development of deer in different herds. Antler development was similarly utilized to compare condition of the animals and indirectly indicated the quality of range used by different herds. A number of bucks with 16-20 antler tines was recorded. Spurs on freak sets were not counted as points.
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Post by Decatur on Feb 4, 2010 15:47:50 GMT -5
Great info jkd! Thanks!
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Post by freedomhunter on Feb 4, 2010 17:41:19 GMT -5
killed this 39lb male this morning with my muzzleloader because I didn't have the shotgun ready, it is now. Wouldn't shoot a hpr or even a .22lr in the area of behind my house. 80 yards freehanded on a fast trot, not bad. Would have taken him at 60 yards head on if the dead coyote in the shotgun was ready.
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Post by dbd870 on Feb 5, 2010 5:24:14 GMT -5
It has to be WRITTEN permission! Well I typed it - it could be printed out - does that count! ;D
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Post by Decatur on Feb 5, 2010 9:28:16 GMT -5
;d sounds good to me! Might want to ask Buster tho!
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Post by tickman1961 on Feb 5, 2010 10:59:07 GMT -5
Any weapon is legal because: Coyote is considered vermin and the State of Indiana would like to control the population. Any critter that can push out game species needs managed and controlled, predators like the coyote are smart critters and more difficult to get within a shotguns range and a muzzleloader would not be considered adequate for follow up shots. Why is there a general season on Coyote in Indiana?? Simply so hunters can sell the pelts during prime season like trapping. After season you cannot possess a coyote for more than 5 days I believe.
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