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Post by vectrix on May 25, 2010 7:44:38 GMT -5
Any gun season in Oct. is ridiculous! For one it will infringe on archery hunters and take that much more time of peace away from the constant blasting of the orange army. It will educate the bucks weeks before firearms season. I also don't see why Oct. maybe someone could fill me in who came up with Oct? Dnr or gun hunters who don't archery hunt but want to hunt that time of year but don't want to shoot a bow? For the guy's who don't archery hunt I can tell you that deer movement most years isn't even that great in most of Oct. thats why I don't understand the reasoning. Why not later when deer are starting to group up and they are out in droves feeding in the evening? Truth be told, DNR could extend firearms another month and make it a 3 buck limit and there would still be complaining so might as well roll with it.
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Post by js2397 on May 25, 2010 9:23:55 GMT -5
Any gun season in Oct. is ridiculous! For one it will infringe on archery hunters and take that much more time of peace away from the constant blasting of the orange army. It will educate the bucks weeks before firearms season. I also don't see why Oct. maybe someone could fill me in who came up with Oct? Dnr or gun hunters who don't archery hunt but want to hunt that time of year but don't want to shoot a bow? For the guy's who don't archery hunt I can tell you that deer movement most years isn't even that great in most of Oct. thats why I don't understand the reasoning. Why not later when deer are starting to group up and they are out in droves feeding in the evening? Truth be told, DNR could extend firearms another month and make it a 3 buck limit and there would still be complaining so might as well roll with it. October makes perfect sense. It is before the rut and removes the does prior to breeding. This would cause a much more intense rut, a shorter breeding window, and the bucks would go into winter in better shape. Secondly the weather in October is usually better. This would get more hunters in the woods and would help to remove excess deer.
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Post by vectrix on May 25, 2010 9:44:55 GMT -5
Any gun season in Oct. is ridiculous! For one it will infringe on archery hunters and take that much more time of peace away from the constant blasting of the orange army. It will educate the bucks weeks before firearms season. I also don't see why Oct. maybe someone could fill me in who came up with Oct? Dnr or gun hunters who don't archery hunt but want to hunt that time of year but don't want to shoot a bow? For the guy's who don't archery hunt I can tell you that deer movement most years isn't even that great in most of Oct. thats why I don't understand the reasoning. Why not later when deer are starting to group up and they are out in droves feeding in the evening? Truth be told, DNR could extend firearms another month and make it a 3 buck limit and there would still be complaining so might as well roll with it. October makes perfect sense. It is before the rut and removes the does prior to breeding. This would cause a much more intense rut, a shorter breeding window, and the bucks would go into winter in better shape. Secondly the weather in October is usually better. This would get more hunters in the woods and would help to remove excess deer. So the small # of does killed in this 2 day season would do all this and be that benificial to the buck herd......lol Yes it's before the rut and putting every buck in that area on red alert. Also the thick vegitation limits shot options and makes for very short range shots. I guess it makes perfect sense to some but to the guy's who bust there tails, hang stands and scout all summer to try and catch a good buck off guard it doesn't. I am all for removing excess does, I do agree it makes good sense from a management process, but I don't see Oct as being the answer. What really puzzles me is why IDNR has the one week break inbetween firearms and ML? Why have a break and say we aren't killing enough? Make that week the antlerless season, nobody is hunting that week anyway.
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Post by Decatur on May 25, 2010 10:24:46 GMT -5
and the bucks would go into winter in better shape. How so? Just because there are less does, doesn't mean the bucks know this and will stop looking. They will look just as hard as ever, and may even travel farther in search of does. While I would hunt during an October ML antlerless sason, I agree the week between firearms and ML makes more sense.
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Post by Woody Williams on May 25, 2010 10:24:58 GMT -5
Not too sure it will be just a "2 day season". That is putting all the eggs in one basket that could get rained out.. Please do discuss this all on here, BUT also send you comments and questions to: INDeerSurvey@dnr.in.gov
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Post by js2397 on May 25, 2010 10:56:07 GMT -5
and the bucks would go into winter in better shape. How so? Just because there are less does, doesn't mean the bucks know this and will stop looking. They will look just as hard as ever, and may even travel farther in search of does. While I would hunt during an October ML antlerless sason, I agree the week between firearms and ML makes more sense. All the research and articles I have read shows a shorten rut is better for the overall health of the bucks. It keeps a younger bucks from breeding and causes older bucks not to search for estrous does for such a long period of time.
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Post by Decatur on May 25, 2010 11:20:26 GMT -5
Sorry, while I believe the theory of a shortened rut would result in the bucks being healthier post-rut, I just don't buy that less does would cause it. Rutting bucks are like teenagers and will look and roam, and roam and look for any female that will have them. Bucks have no way of knowing that all of the does within the distance they are willing to travel have been bred and will be non-receptive to their advances. I am not trying to argue, just trying to get my head around the whole deal.
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Post by js2397 on May 25, 2010 11:39:59 GMT -5
How then would you shorten the rut? I don't mind discussion and enjoy the challenge of trying to convince someone of my point.
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Post by freedomhunter on May 25, 2010 11:48:51 GMT -5
less doe's is going to cause a shorter, more intense, rut with more competition and daytime movement by bucks (they have to move to find them, not layout in transition areas).
what runs them down is the trickle rut and second and third ruts(estrous cycles), the rut is basically over within a couple weeks of starting in good ratio areas.
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Post by vectrix on May 25, 2010 11:58:46 GMT -5
What shortens the rut is guys in Oct. blasting away at does. I agree JS, we all have a point to prove but in the long run they will do what they do and thats how it will be. I think the main argument with anything is guys have different ways they hunt, some like me enjoy the time when the weekend warriors with just any gun can go take snap shots at anything that moves are not in the woods. Some are happy just to shoot "something" so they argue for an extra season anytime they can get it. Some want to kill two bucks, why I have no clue I guess it's a bragging rights thing because does do taste better. Some like to harvest does early and trophy hunt the rut, so they argue against an early gun season. But if you are arguing that this early season would make the rut more intense then you surely would argue to back gun up a week or two, that also is good sound buck management and would make for better bucks.....lol any takers............I didn't think so.
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Post by js2397 on May 25, 2010 12:12:56 GMT -5
Backing the season up may produce better bucks, but I don't think it would not make the rut better.
I think if you look at how they hunt in places like Iowa where the gun season is late you would prefer our method. There are many deer in those states taken during deer drives where the hunters are really "slinging lead". For the most part in Indiana where I hunt we don't have too many people just blowing the woods up and most stay in one spot for the majority of the time.
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Post by vectrix on May 25, 2010 12:33:46 GMT -5
Backing the season up may produce better bucks, but I don't think it would not make the rut better. I think if you look at how they hunt in places like Iowa where the gun season is late you would prefer our method. There are many deer in those states taken during deer drives where the hunters are really "slinging lead". For the most part in Indiana where I hunt we don't have too many people just blowing the woods up and most stay in one spot for the majority of the time. It would however create bigger deer in the long run which I love. I hunt near a large tree farm, nice woods I worked hard to gain permission to hunt. During archery season its quiet and I can pretty much get on a good pattern after a few hunts. Killed a 158 11 point last year on Halloween after tweaking my stand placement. Took my son in there on opening weekend to go after a 140 to 145 8 pointer, that had been seen. Those guys in that neighboring property must have killed around 20 deer if you count the shots. It was shooting basically all morning, walking the edge of my property and I finally pulled out when they drove the edge (on My side) of the property in a truck and was nice enough to watch us in our stand for quite awile. but atleast they they had their orange on in the truck....lol
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Post by vectrix on May 25, 2010 12:36:57 GMT -5
Also it would make the rut much better because more bucks would make it through the firearms season. I'm just saying this: If your argument for the early gun season is good buck management and better rut than you couldn't argue against backing firearms up a week or two or it makes it look like you are picking and choosing what is best just for you not the buck herd.
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Post by js2397 on May 25, 2010 13:45:26 GMT -5
Those reasons I gave are some reasons to have the doe hunt in October. I care nothing of buck management so I am fine with you taking that point for the October doe hunt. I manage my land for the betterment of the entire herd. We shoot a lot of does, try to let young bucks walk, leave areas for fawning, and place minerals out to help get the does in the best health possible when it comes time to have fawns.
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Post by deerman1 on May 25, 2010 15:54:30 GMT -5
Any gun season in Oct. is ridiculous! For one it will infringe on archery hunters and take that much more time of peace away from the constant blasting of the orange army. It will educate the bucks weeks before firearms season. I also don't see why Oct. maybe someone could fill me in who came up with Oct? Dnr or gun hunters who don't archery hunt but want to hunt that time of year but don't want to shoot a bow? For the guy's who don't archery hunt I can tell you that deer movement most years isn't even that great in most of Oct. thats why I don't understand the reasoning. Why not later when deer are starting to group up and they are out in droves feeding in the evening? Truth be told, DNR could extend firearms another month and make it a 3 buck limit and there would still be complaining so might as well roll with it. October makes perfect sense. It is before the rut and removes the does prior to breeding. This would cause a much more intense rut, a shorter breeding window, and the bucks would go into winter in better shape. Secondly the weather in October is usually better. This would get more hunters in the woods and would help to remove excess deer. Quite honestly no it will not cause the rut here to be that much more intense at all .They simply will not remove that many does to intensify the rut that is already very short in comparison to most state as is.And not every area has that many excess deer do not for get that this is mostly a surgical type strike in only ciertain counties not state wide !! The bucks I have seen are in great shape heading into winter anyways they lose just a few pounds as in maybe in most instances here 10% of thier fat reseves this is not Texas , Alabama,Or up state new york its Indiana . It will in all likely hood cause many bucks to go nocturnal prematurly as the guns always do in Nov. Then who will be crying about not seeing as many bucks as they used to a whole bunch of hunters thats who.
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Post by deerman1 on May 25, 2010 15:58:00 GMT -5
October makes perfect sense. It is before the rut and removes the does prior to breeding. This would cause a much more intense rut, a shorter breeding window, and the bucks would go into winter in better shape. Secondly the weather in October is usually better. This would get more hunters in the woods and would help to remove excess deer. So the small # of does killed in this 2 day season would do all this and be that benificial to the buck herd......lol Yes it's before the rut and putting every buck in that area on red alert. Also the thick vegitation limits shot options and makes for very short range shots. I guess it makes perfect sense to some but to the guy's who bust there tails, hang stands and scout all summer to try and catch a good buck off guard it doesn't. I am all for removing excess does, I do agree it makes good sense from a management process, but I don't see Oct as being the answer. What really puzzles me is why IDNR has the one week break inbetween firearms and ML? Why have a break and say we aren't killing enough? Make that week the antlerless season, nobody is hunting that week anyway. Bingo perfectly put !!!!! That is the $1,000,000 question isnt it
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Post by throbak on May 25, 2010 16:13:49 GMT -5
this whole deal is not about more bucks, better bucks or whatever, its about a 25 % deer reduction ,
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Post by Decatur on May 25, 2010 16:16:59 GMT -5
Throbak
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Post by deerman1 on May 25, 2010 17:13:01 GMT -5
this whole deal is not about more bucks, better bucks or whatever, its about a 25 % deer reduction , Yes it is and if the DNR thinks that the hunters will or even want to shoot ab additional 150,000 or 175,00 thousand more deer than the 135,000 we already take thay must smoking crack at the office . The fact is that every hunter knows and don't want to say is bucks are deer to and do as much or more colateral damge as the does do they need thgind out just as bad as the Does do.without throwing more bucks in the mix some how the numbers will never move in large jumps of say 5,000 or10,000 more deer per year.
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Post by vectrix on May 25, 2010 17:49:29 GMT -5
this whole deal is not about more bucks, better bucks or whatever, its about a 25 % deer reduction , I agree somewhat, but how can Indiana say they need to harvest 25% more deer, not just does and still have a OBR (Which I do support)? It makes no sense unless they are managing buck, does it? I DEER HUNT not half way or weekends, I hunt hard and I can tell you a week in Oct will not produce 25% more harvest thats ridiculous. The reason buck management was even brought up was that excuse was what was being used to support the Oct. season and it doesn't hold water. If you are managing for bucks you hold antlerless only seasons at a good time of year when deer are on their feet, the crops are out and deer are more visible. You back off gun out of the main part of the rut to give the bucks a break. If you want to kill does, extend the week btwn gun and muzzy and let guys kill does with any weapon. Heck open up crossbow during archery and extend the youth season to a week in sept instead of a weekend. That way the bucks are no wiser and nobody has a beef like archery hunters being infringed on with guns.
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