spotlighting coyotes...illegal or not??

[greyfox1757]

just wondering if anyone knew is it illegal to spotlight coyotes but not posses a firearm. I am teaching a buddy of mine to use mouth calls and I wanted him to get out there and be able to see whats going on. So we were wondering if it is illegal to spotlight if we are just calling and we do NOT have any firearms on us at all.

[greyfox1757]

that is what I thought also but I was just wanting to make sure with all this poacher talk that is going on around here.

[Decatur]

Other than educating the coyotes, I don't see anything wrong with it. You can spotlight for deer as long as you don't have a weapon, and deer are way more important in most people's eyes than yotes!

[catahecassa]

Are you just asking about doing in like now/out of season? If that is the case, then you should be fine - although I agree that you may want to post in the Ask a CO section!

If it is private land, & if it is not yours but you can get WRITTEN permission - then it is a non-issue!!

"A continuously burning light that can be seen for at least 500 feet must be carried while pursuing furbearing animals between sunset and sunrise. It is legal to hunt fox and coyote with the use of mouth- or hand-operated calls, or with the use of recorded calls. Spotlights may be used to take fox and coyote. There are no restrictions on hunting hours or firearms for hunting fox and coyote. It is illegal to hunt fox or coyote from a roadway or with the use of any motor-driven conveyance."
www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/3188.htm

[greyfox1757]

I have never had a problem with it but lately our new co has been kinda antsy with people using spotlights and I just want to avoid the guy all together on the bad side. I always thought it was legal also as long as no fire arm was present. So I think I am going to call the co tomorrow and see if it is alright or not.

[greyfox1757]

I have posted the question on the co board but I just wanted to get a general answer because i know it may be a while.

[catahecassa]

Again, if you are on PRIVATE land that you own - OR have written permission to specifically hunt coyotes - then you can HUNT coyotes with a spotlight. I would suggest a shotgun with #2 or #4 buck....or Dead Coyote (IF you can afford them! ) is some awesome stuff! Most shots at night are much closer (sometimes closer than you WANT!) than daylight shots.

If you are on State/Federal land...& it isn't Oct 15, 2010 - Mar 15, 2011...then you definitely do not want to have a firearm/bow/etc., but you should be good to go as far as calling & spotlighting. As Decatur said, you would run the risk of educating them if you plan on hunting them later but that is about it.

[greyfox1757]

The properties were calling are not the same as the ones I am hunting. Matter of fact its not the same county. I realize that I can hunt my own property for coyotes whenever because my father has given me written permission on our farmland. I was just trying to look into the controversy of the spotlight itself. Dead coyote is good stuff I am pretty fond of it my self as for the price I just close my eyes when I purchase it. lol

[trapperdave]

no law against spotlights except for the taking of deer, attempting to take a deer or from a vehicle with a weapon. I.E. Get out first

[jrbhunter]

Reading between the lines here... it almost looks like someone is wanting to practice calling coyotes under lights by cruising backroads and disturbing the wildlife on the properties of random landowners. This would be highly unpopular with the local residents, their farm dogs and the folks that hunt deer and or predators on those properties.

There would be a loophole here where a CO could write a ticket: but the light is not the issue. If the CO is already a stickler, and logically concludes that you're screwing with other hunters to prevent educating your own coyotes, then I would expect at least one citation to be written. Perhaps two.

That said, I can tell you that the concept is not going to provide much help for "your buddy" in his quest to learn about coyotes. If the light is applied to the coyote before the sound- there is verrrry little to be learned by his behavior that follows. Even if the sound and light is applied (from a vehicle on a roadway) before the coyote is in view, there is very little body language and activity that can be gleaned and used in actual hunting scenarios. Unless of course, you plan on HUNTING this way after October 15th. Even then, the security levels and comfort zones of coyotes are going to change a LOT as crops continue to come out and deer hunters enter the woods.

All in all, by riding around blowing calls without intentions (or permission) to kill coyotes you are going to adversely affect most of the predator hunters in that area. You'll probably lay eyes on about 5-10% of the coyotes you actually call. However, 100% of them will have gained a bad experience that will begin their development of a "preconditioned response" which is bad news for the next guy who tries to call them... unless he knows what he's doing.

An experienced predator caller would actually benefit from others in his area using such wildly unproductive tactics. By pressuring those coyotes, you'd be ensuring that the average predator hunter has a depleated chance of killing them before a veteran hunter gets to them. Despite having a lot of good callers around here, the majority of predator callers in Indiana will be using simiarly unsuccesful methods this winter and you will have cut their 5-10% odds considerably.

The harder you pressure a coyote, the more predictable he becomes. Stupid coyotes are harder to read. Stupid coyotes are born once a year but "educated" coyotes are born everyday. I'd suggest you invest some time in learning from coyotes instead of teaching them. Learn from other coyote hunters instead of handicapping them. Just my .02

[greyfox1757]

Thanks for your "concern". Really all the land i call on I have permission to be on so the local dogs and people can get over it. I appreciate the information but the attitude was the best part. I am willing to learn and eager to listen to experienced hunters, matter of fact I've attended many seminars and listened to plenty of experienced callers and asked for help. They were all pretty eager to help and show me and my buddy things. NONE of them carried the attitude that you did. I appreciate the information but you could lose the attitude and quotes in your post next time.

[jrbhunter]

No attitude, just facts and very little attempt to butter it up for political correctness. You posed a black & white question, knowing you were flirting with a gray area, and expected a black & white answer. That's not how it works. Many of the laws on the books are left to the "Discretion of the Arresting Officer" for this very reason. That “gray area” has landed more than one Gibson/Knox/Sullivan pavement fur-hunter in hot water.

Fact is, I've been around dozens of these forums and hundreds of predator callers long enough to connect the dots. A guy poses a question about the legality of something that is obviously legal: shining a spotlight. He does so, knowing he is pushing a gray area with land-access and blocking a roadway while using someone else's wildlife to learn the ropes of hunting them. It’s not rocket science.

Once quizzed about educating his coyotes: he admits he's traveling to another county for his practice sessions. When quizzed about burning up someone else's coyotes: he says he has permission to hunt the coyotes anyway. Suspicious. Even if 1+1 doesn’t equal 2 in your case, my advice remains the same.
I have no personal interests in whether you screw up your coyotes or someone else's. My advice was geared toward making you, and all other readers, better at killing coyotes. If you'd get past your guilty conscience and look at the information I posted... you might learn something. There is some good information to be gleaned from the brief post I made, information you’ve never seen posted on this forum and likely won’t see again.

Absolutely no disrespect to Woody or this site: but these predator calling sections of deer hunting forums rarely hold good deep discussions on successfully calling coyotes. Trapping: Sometimes. Calling: Very Rarely. In fact, less and less good calling info is making its way onto ANY internet forums these days. Too much drama and arguing going on to justify the experienced guys investing their time in a discussion. An aspiring caller’s best bet is probably catching seminars from credible sources or one-on-one instruction with an experienced hunter if possible. It also helps to live in the Coyote-Mecca of the state. LOL!

[moose1am]

I have a question that goes along with this issue.

Is a CO2 powered pellet pistol or rifle considered to be a FIREARM?

I sometimes go out and take a spot light with me to try to see coyotes or deer after dark. Should I leave my CO2 pellet pistol at home when I use the spotlight after dark.

I am not hunting at the time or should I say I am not planning on shooting anything.

I carry the CO2 Pistol more for self defense than for hunting. It's not powerful enough to kill anything other than a rabbit and even then I'd have to be at very close range to even kill a cottontail rabbit. But the pistol appears to be real as it's not made out of plastic. It's an expensive pellet pistol made by UMAREX in Germany. It's a CP Sport lisensed by Walter. You can see them at Gander Mountain in Evansville, IN. It's a lot nicer than the Crossman pellet pistols that I have had in the past. I went though two of the Crossman Model 1008's in a few years. The pin that punctures the CO2 cartridge was always breaking and the CO2 would leak out really fast. I have one sitting on the kitchen table and plan to take it back to get a refund. It cost $50 when I bought it at Walmart. I bought it back in 2005 though and will have to see if I can find the VISA receipt for that purchase. Walmart probably won't refund my money but they may exchange it for a new one. It's worth a shot. If not I'll either give it away to someone that needs it for parts or I'll just dispose of it in the trash. I like my new CP Sport pistol much better anyway. It's made solid.

Just curious if a CO2 pistol is legally considered a firearm or not. That's my main concern right now.

Never have really hunted at night. I don't like being in the dark by myself that much. LOL Just imagine hunting for coytoes at night in Africa. Making a dying rabbit sound and having a big cat hunting you in the dark. No thanks.

I did read where someone had their captive cougar escape the compound and that cat is still on the loose. That's why I would prefer to hunt with a partner to help cover my back in the dark. I can't see that well in the daytime and can't see very well at all after it gets dark.

Aug 31, 2010 7:45:07 GMT -5 @catahecassa said:

Again, if you are on PRIVATE land that you own - OR have written permission to specifically hunt coyotes - then you can HUNT coyotes with a spotlight. I would suggest a shotgun with #2 or #4 buck....or Dead Coyote (IF you can afford them! ) is some awesome stuff! Most shots at night are much closer (sometimes closer than you WANT!) than daylight shots.

If you are on State/Federal land...& it isn't Oct 15, 2010 - Mar 15, 2011...then you definitely do not want to have a firearm/bow/etc., but you should be good to go as far as calling & spotlighting. As Decatur said, you would run the risk of educating them if you plan on hunting them later but that is about it.

[moose1am]

Good advise.

How far off the road do we have to be before we are legal? I know better to shoot across a roadway or body of water. But if driving down the road and spotting a coyote can we stop the car, park along the side of the road, get out of the car and walk off the roadway and then shoot? Where would a CO draw the line?

I don't plan on hunting this way but was curious.

But I am curious as to what the law is on this. Perhaps its' one of those gray areas where the discression of the CO is necessary to make the call as to what's legal or not.

Sept 7, 2010 0:05:17 GMT -5 trapperdave said:

no law against spotlights except for the taking of deer, attempting to take a deer or from a vehicle with a weapon. I.E. Get out first

[gobblerstopper]

Oct 5, 2010 12:11:31 GMT -5 moose1am said:

How far off the road do we have to be before we are legal? I know better to shoot across a roadway or body of water. But if driving down the road and spotting a coyote can we stop the car, park along the side of the road, get out of the car and walk off the roadway and then shoot? Where would a CO draw the line?

I was told that there has never been a law regarding how far you have to be off the roadway. Never a "XX" number of feet or anything like that.

I'm pretty sure shooting across water, although not safe in some instances, is legal while "in persuit of game". If not, waterfowl hunters would have a hard time on most setups.

[jrbhunter]

Oct 5, 2010 12:11:31 GMT -5 moose1am said:

Good advise.

How far off the road do we have to be before we are legal? I know better to shoot across a roadway or body of water. But if driving down the road and spotting a coyote can we stop the car, park along the side of the road, get out of the car and walk off the roadway and then shoot? Where would a CO draw the line?

That is two questions: requiring two answers.

My interpretation, after speaking to numerous conservation officers about his, is that "off the road" means just that. Not *ON* the road.

Again, purely regurgetating information that IDNR CO's have told me over the years- There is a rule stipulating that you may not harvest furbearers with the aid of a moterized conveyance. Technically, the situation you outlined... of spotting a coyote while driving: then going back to call him in: could be a violation. This is left up to the discretion of the arresting officer.

If you have permission and did not use the moterized conveyance to advance yourself in the effort to harvest (IE: Getting closer/ect) then he's probably not going to write a ticket. If it appears you are cruising backroads with a weapon ready to roll-out into the ditch at the slightest sign of fur, then you very well may get a citation. They know the difference.

We are fortunate to have some pretty liberal laws regarding predator hunting in Indiana. Those who push the envelope by consistantly exploiting the gray areas are risking many of the freedoms we enjoy as Hoosiers. I hunt predators in several states and I despise many of their laws such as cased weapons, firearm restrictions and furbearer licenses.

PS: I'm fairly certain it's illegal to shoot across a navigable waterway in pursuit of a furbearer. Waterfowlers have their own exceptions: I believe.

PPS: As for the air pistol... I'd assume that would get you a citation. I always say, I'd rather take an a$$-whoopin than get in a gunfight I can't win. Fake (or otherwise inferior) guns can make a bad situation worse in a hurry. I'd leave it at home.

[moose1am]

Oct 5, 2010 12:23:03 GMT -5 @gobblerstopper said:

Oct 5, 2010 12:11:31 GMT -5 moose1am said:

How far off the road do we have to be before we are legal? I know better to shoot across a roadway or body of water. But if driving down the road and spotting a coyote can we stop the car, park along the side of the road, get out of the car and walk off the roadway and then shoot? Where would a CO draw the line?

I was told that there has never been a law regarding how far you have to be off the roadway. Never a "XX" number of feet or anything like that.

I'm pretty sure shooting across water, although not safe in some instances, is legal while "in persuit of game". If not, waterfowl hunters would have a hard time on most setups.

I was thinking and referring to rifes used for coyote hunting. Shotguns used for Geese and ducks would be exempt from the shooting over water rules. I know that I read the rule somewhere that it's illegal to shoot a rifle over a body of water. I think it's in the paperback hunting regulations that IDNR gives to stores like Walmart. I usually pick up my copy of those hunting or fishing regulations at the Walmart Sporting Goods dept or a Gander Mountain or Dicks Sporting Goods Store.

I need to find out for sure about the CO2 pistol. But I understand what Jason said about bringing an inferrior pistol to a shooting match. I take the CO2 pistol out in the boat with me to ward off snakes. Well I use to do that. Last time I shot it at a snake on Otter Pit it was too loud. It has a black paint fishish and I had it hollstered inside a black cloth type Crossman pistol holster and the sun had heated it up even though they were inside my canvas hunting bag. It scared me when it went off as it was as loud or louder than a 22 long rifle. One other fisherman heard it too. I missed the snake but it got the snake to move off the exposed tree that had fallen down into the water. I fished that tree for crappie wiithout having to worry about the snake crawing in my boat with me. LOL

Someday in the future I may purchase a pistol of some kind. But I have a lot of learning to do about handgun. I'd only want it for personal protection while hunting.

[gobblerstopper]

In the 2010-2011 Regulation book...

It is illegal to....

• Shoot across a body of water, except in the
lawful pursuit of wildlife.

This only applies if you are on land. There are other regulations for shooting from a boat for different game. Such as no hunting furbearers from a boat.

I'll check on the CO2 pistol.

[lonniephillips]

for those who like the "dead coyote" load in your shot guns , try the more affordable #4 buck
it has only a few less pellets and cost about $10 for a box of 5 vs. $35 0r $40 for a box of 10

They shoot just as well

If i remember right the 3 1/2 inch "dead coyote" has 58 pellets and a 3 1/2 inch #4 buck has 51 pellets

[catahecassa]

Lonnie - I have & do use #4 buck (& sometimes #2Buck), and while the pellet count is almost the same, that is where the similarities STOP!! The alloy that is in 'dead coyote' is MUCH denser than lead & therefore carries much more KE further downrange. That being said...unless the situation/set-up warrants it, I leave the high dollar stuff in my pocket & load the cheap stuff...that way one box of 'dead coyote' last a LONG time!!!