dsg69
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Post by dsg69 on Oct 9, 2011 19:31:21 GMT -5
.358 Grant is made using WSM or RUM brass. We already have the reamer for the .358 Grant 1.8". First one is being built now. We are putting one together to test the gains before we have the others reamed.
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Post by boman on Oct 9, 2011 20:04:05 GMT -5
FWIW Here's a pic of the two bottleneck "wildcats" currently available Grant on the left. Steve
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2011 20:19:37 GMT -5
Looks like the same case length to me? Aren't these 1,6" instead of the 1.8"
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Post by boman on Oct 9, 2011 20:32:37 GMT -5
These are the current 1.62. Posted the pic for those who have never seen the cartridges but are reading the thread Steve
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Post by boman on Oct 9, 2011 20:43:16 GMT -5
We are putting one together to test the gains before we have the others reamed. sounds like you're going to recut existing chambers? Steve
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2011 21:16:00 GMT -5
That's what I'm interested in. Hate being too short if it helps. If it don't then it won't matter.
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Post by tenring on Oct 9, 2011 21:32:49 GMT -5
I've never seen anything that stated straight wall cartridges. The 44-40 has always been listed as a legal cartridge and it is a bottleneck. I was in on the original proposals over 20 years ago for the PCR's when we had to go to the State House at night in Indy, and yes it was for "straight walled" only, which would have meant the 45-70 would have been legal. It wasn't long before it was reported that there was a group advocating high powered rifles, and politics got involved real quick and the whole idea disappeared. Only a few years ago was it suddenly revived with a change in Administration and the straight walled provision eliminated [politics?]. And yes, we now have "high powered rifles" legal, but we're still not hunting big game, just deer. Politics 'aint pretty, and neither is all this whining and bickering. You should have been at some of those meetings when handgun hunting for "deer" was proposed. Now that was some whining from the anti's [and hunters] from homes being filled full of holes, to livestock being killed, to reckless use causing multiple deaths of hunters and innocent bystanders, and again at the PCR meetings. I was at a lot of the meetings about allowing herd reduction in the State Parks, and actually saw tears in the eyes of people who wanted to protect "their" deer. Now that was a hoot! I've BTDT over a lot of years, and have figured out that the squeaky wheel does indeed get the grease, even if the wheel still is out of line and still needs balancing.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 9, 2011 21:44:52 GMT -5
I've never seen anything that stated straight wall cartridges. The 44-40 has always been listed as a legal cartridge and it is a bottleneck. I was in on the original proposals over 20 years ago for the PCR's when we had to go to the State House at night in Indy, and yes it was for "straight walled" only, which would have meant the 45-70 would have been legal. It wasn't long before it was reported that there was a group advocating high powered rifles, and politics got involved real quick and the whole idea disappeared. Only a few years ago was it suddenly revived with a change in Administration and the straight walled provision eliminated [politics?]. And yes, we now have "high powered rifles" legal, but we're still not hunting big game, just deer. Politics 'aint pretty, and neither is all this whining and bickering. You should have been at some of those meetings when handgun hunting for "deer" was proposed. Now that was some whining from the anti's [and hunters] from homes being filled full of holes, to livestock being killed, to reckless use causing multiple deaths of hunters and innocent bystanders, and again at the PCR meetings. I was at a lot of the meetings about allowing herd reduction in the State Parks, and actually saw tears in the eyes of people who wanted to protect "their" deer. Now that was a hoot! I've BTDT over a lot of years, and have figured out that the squeaky wheel does indeed get the grease, even if the wheel still is out of line and still needs balancing. I don't go back that far, but I do know that Senator Waterman put forth a bill to make the PCR aka "Cowboy Rifles" legal for Indiana deer hunting. Kyle Hupfer was then the DNR directir and met with Waterman and asked him to allow Kyle to put that through as an Administrative Rules Proposals instead of a bill. Kyle saw that as politicans setting seasons and methods and wanted to try and stop that. Waterman agreed and the process started. Somewhere in the process the straight wall was amended and dropped. There were plenty of people, includng hunters, that was against it - as you well know. We, that ended up wanting it passed, were accused of being "John Waynes" and we would be shooting the woods up with those multi cartridge lever guns. Common sense prevailed and PCRs, wildcats or not, is a good thing..
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Post by drs on Oct 10, 2011 5:57:12 GMT -5
David, you've preached this a bunch of times, and have ALWAYS been against the use of certain cartridges even though it makes not a bit of difference to you. Look back and see, this is not the first time you've been on the BAN wagon. To see how stupid your argument is, you just have to look/see what the legal calibers are for those who use long barrel pistols. You can use a brick if you want, I don't and enjoy being on the edge and having an edge. Sorry you feel that way, Tom. If a good percentage of Deer Hunters decided to use these "Higher Powered" 2,300 to 2,700 FPS .358" cartridges rifles It will be interesting to see what the public's reaction is. I can't imagine it will be very positive in highly populated sections of Indiana. To me it sounds like many here are placing safety in second place in lieu of being in favor of using these more powerful wildcat cartridges. Why doesn't the IDNR just go ahead and legalize cartridges like the .358 Win., .35 Rem. & even cartridges with a bullet diameter < .357" like the .243 or .30-30?? They don't allow these, I mentioned above, as they know the range of danger is further than what one would have with a TRUE Pistol Cartridge. However, due to their stupidity, they used cartridge length instead of volume capacity, thus these 1.6" or 1.8" cartridges hold the same or nearly amount of powder as the cartridges that are not permitted. You people found a "Loophole" so enjoy your victory and hope those Hunters, using these cartridges, are safe & considerate Hunters & no one get hurt.
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Post by oldhoyt on Oct 10, 2011 6:33:18 GMT -5
There is no safety issue with high powered rifles. This has been discussed to the point where it is clear that some have a mental block about the issue.
Also "the public" doesn't care how fast a bullet moves. They may object to guns being fired where they should not be, but that has nothing to do with the cartridge being used.
I feel the DNR will allow the use of all rifle cartridges in the not so distant future. I believe the DNR knew exactly what they were doing by allowing wildcats, and if anyone doubts that, consider that they just bumped up the allowable case length. If the DNR wanted to put the brakes on, they would not have this.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 10, 2011 7:37:25 GMT -5
There is no safety issue with high powered rifles. This has been discussed to the point where it is clear that some have a mental block about the issue. Also "the public" doesn't care how fast a bullet moves. They may object to guns being fired where they should not be, but that has nothing to do with the cartridge being used. I feel the DNR will allow the use of all rifle cartridges in the not so distant future. I believe the DNR knew exactly what they were doing by allowing wildcats, and if anyone doubts that, consider that they just bumped up the allowable case length. If the DNR wanted to put the brakes on, they would not have this. Well said and I agree 110%..there is no "loopholes". The DNR knew and still knows what they are doing
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Post by gobblerstopper on Oct 10, 2011 9:31:38 GMT -5
drs, what do you mean by the "publics reaction"? Most of the nonhunting public could not tell you what the legal weapons are or the difference between them and any the true hpr's. I'm sure if someone is shot or a house is hit, the media is going to call it an assult weapon either way. The person hit is not going to care if it was a .44, 20ga, or wildcat.
Guess they can always look it up on he Internet and find someone somewhere preaching that the gun should not have been used when all along it was a legal weapon.
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Post by swilk on Oct 10, 2011 9:55:55 GMT -5
drs - why do you use the term "loophole" when the dnr rules specifically say that wildcats are legal?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2011 11:28:03 GMT -5
Because he lives in the stoneage. David is for gun cintrol and has shown that dozens of times here. He talks about people being stupid, then can't undersatnd that there is no difference in a projectile travelling from a bottleneck or a straight walled case or the safety factor with rifles vs. other legal weapons. He arguement is one for the other site, he should take it there.
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Post by oldhoyt on Oct 10, 2011 11:54:19 GMT -5
Because he lives in the stoneage. David is for gun cintrol and has shown that dozens of times here. He talks about people being stupid, then can't undersatnd that there is no difference in a projectile travelling from a bottleneck or a straight walled case or the safety factor with rifles vs. other legal weapons. He arguement is one for the other site, he should take it there. And take his 308 with him. That's what I don't get. How can it be ok for one guy to use a rifle but not ok for others?
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dsg69
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Post by dsg69 on Oct 10, 2011 19:25:38 GMT -5
boman, thanks for the old picture of my bench. I had forgot about those photos. There should be another one that showed the steps in making the brass. Post that one if you can. It will take the same process but adding .175" to the body. We are going to ream the other rifles if we gain very much.
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Post by boman on Oct 11, 2011 7:44:46 GMT -5
Figured that was you in the earlier post---here you go. Steve
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dsg69
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Post by dsg69 on Oct 11, 2011 17:21:19 GMT -5
boman we have also have a hydraulic forming die. It cuts out the fire forming to blow the shoulder out. It's funny what a 2 lb. hammer and some water can do.
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Post by boman on Oct 11, 2011 19:48:27 GMT -5
boman we have also have a hydraulic forming die. It cuts out the fire forming to blow the shoulder out. It's funny what a 2 lb. hammer and some water can do. Yes, its amazing what a liquid under pressure can do . We considered the Grant before ordering a reamer but are basically cheaper and lazier than you so went with the 358wssm. I suppose we could try blowing the shoulder out and up but probably end up with a marginal neck and may compromise the integrity of the case when it stretches. Happy with what we've got. case forming is really easy compared to the Grant. Anneal, neck up in one step, run through the sizer and load. what load did you end up liking the best? Steve
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dsg69
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Post by dsg69 on Oct 12, 2011 20:33:17 GMT -5
We have a few, 225 ACCU up to 2725 FPS fastest, best groups (3 shot) @ 2550. 180 grain Speer have been pushed to 3000. Not pretty, works like a v-max on yearlings. Send me your e-mail in a PM and I'll send some photos.
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