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Post by DEERTRACKS on Jun 4, 2012 12:30:02 GMT -5
BTDT on the front shoulder socket when he stepped forward as I released the arrow. Broke the broadhead tip, split the shaft, & bounced out. I tracked & jumped him 3 times for about a mile with a very faint blood trail of drops here & there. The crazy thing is I am 99% sure that deer is perfectly fine...but can you imagine the pain he had to have dealt with for a while.......man. Tought break there bud. If he was hurting he sure did not show it when I jumped him up & he bounded away all 3 times. Yup! I got him the first day of firearms season running his scrape line. Same rack along with scar tissue on the right front shoulder joint. Never did find the broadhead tip that broke-off.
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Post by cedarthicket on Jun 4, 2012 12:42:10 GMT -5
Woody, thanks for posting the picture. It certainly helps to clarify what people are talking about. It also shows (assuming we all know where the heart and lungs are) why the nearly universal classic broadside shot advice for firearm hunters is to place the bullet just behind the front leg and about one third to one half way up from the bottom of the body.
I believe a separate "sticky" made up of high quality pictures of deer anatomy (skeleton and organs) from several angles would make a worthwhile addition to all deer hunting forums. This, accompanied by text on suggested shot placement (bullets and arrows), and reasoning behind taking or not taking shots, could prove helpful, as long as it is done on a relatively high academic/scientific/professional level.
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Post by lugnutz on Jun 4, 2012 13:22:47 GMT -5
Woody, thanks for posting the picture. It certainly helps to clarify what people are talking about. It also shows (assuming we all know where the heart and lungs are) why the nearly universal classic broadside shot advice for firearm hunters is to place the bullet just behind the front leg and about one third to one half way up from the bottom of the body. I believe a separate "sticky" made up of high quality pictures of deer anatomy (skeleton and organs) from several angles would make a worthwhile addition to all deer hunting forums. This, accompanied by text on suggested shot placement (bullets and arrows), and reasoning behind taking or not taking shots, could prove helpful, as long as it is done on a relatively high academic/scientific/professional level.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 4, 2012 15:03:19 GMT -5
Woody, thanks for posting the picture. It certainly helps to clarify what people are talking about. It also shows (assuming we all know where the heart and lungs are) why the nearly universal classic broadside shot advice for firearm hunters is to place the bullet just behind the front leg and about one third to one half way up from the bottom of the body. I believe a separate "sticky" made up of high quality pictures of deer anatomy (skeleton and organs) from several angles would make a worthwhile addition to all deer hunting forums. This, accompanied by text on suggested shot placement (bullets and arrows), and reasoning behind taking or not taking shots, could prove helpful, as long as it is done on a relatively high academic/scientific/professional level. I'd be all for that but wouldn't know where to start . There are all kinds of deer anatomy pictures on the net, but most are the standard broadside.. Any help diection would be appreciated.....
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Post by tynimiller on Jun 4, 2012 15:24:19 GMT -5
I'd be all for that but wouldn't know where to start . There are all kinds of deer anatomy pictures on the net, but most are the standard broadside.. Any help diection would be appreciated..... I'll comb through my trail cam pics...probably the best way to get real life shots at different angles...as for the anatomy shots that could be tougher...I like the idea though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 16:55:24 GMT -5
Pretty basic stuff on where to aim, problem is, people don't always hit where they aim. Some changes need to be made on angles and height from the ground. But It's still basic stuff. Punch through both sides are far better then one hole. If you don't get two holes, recovery is a bit harder.
If archers would limit their selves to shots where they are 99% sure they will hit where they aim, it would eliminate a lot of these discussions.
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Post by lugnutz on Jun 4, 2012 17:44:58 GMT -5
Pretty basic stuff on where to aim, problem is, people don't always hit where they aim. Some changes need to be made on angles and height from the ground. But It's still basic stuff. Punch through both sides are far better then one hole. If you don't get two holes, recovery is a bit harder. If archers would limit their selves to shots where they are 99% sure they will hit where they aim, it would eliminate a lot of these discussions. How many bow kills you got in the last few years?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 17:57:21 GMT -5
One since the booner on the island. I'm not a big numbers guy anymore.
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Post by trapperdave on Jun 4, 2012 22:46:29 GMT -5
that be a joint
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Post by trapperdave on Jun 4, 2012 22:49:04 GMT -5
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Post by trapperdave on Jun 4, 2012 22:50:47 GMT -5
human nature seems to be to shoot for center of mass...that = gut shot deer
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 4:36:58 GMT -5
Imo, the problem isn't that hunters,don't know where to aim, its that they can't hit the exact spot for several reasons. One could be that they don't practice enough, because they believe modern equip. will make up the difference in ability. The other could be they are taken longer shots. I've lately seen and tracked deer shot at 50-7o yards. Back in the day, it was 20-30 with never over 40. Again, the root cause is perception that modern equip. will make up the extra distance. It won't. Other causes could be simply taking marginal shots due to being impatient.
If you've not recovered a deer un the last few years, examine the root cause. There has to be one, )ecause if you had done everything correctly, it would a been different. I wouldn't worry about how many someone else has killed, as it has nothing to do with it.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 5, 2012 8:08:12 GMT -5
I believe that a lot of the "hit him too far back" shots are from shooting at a walking deer. By the time a bowhunter's mind says shoot, he/she triggers the trigger, the arrow gets there the deer has moved enough distance to make the POI further back than the point of aim. The further out from your stand the deer is the more that is increased. If one is going to shoot at a walking deer they ned to lead the deer.
Me? I "BAH" at the deer to stop him..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 8:32:43 GMT -5
timex is right on the more modern equipment leading to bad shots. just because the guys on tv shoot deer at 50 plus yards makes the everyday hunter think they can too. yes the bows are capable of killing at that range but you have to have the right factors. open fields with no tree limbs or anything to hit in between your target and the right broadhead and arrow setup. just because your bow shoot fast doesnt mean its going to penatrate anything. a slower heavier arrow will have more kinetic energy and give you more penetraton than having a light arrow weight and 400 fps. lots of variablws in taking marginal shots or long shots that can interfere with your arrows path.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 8:36:23 GMT -5
shot a deer in illinois a couple of years ago with a muzzleloader and found a broadhead and arrow shaft in the deers left eye socket. the broadhead was bent in the insert where it had hit something on its path to the deer. this deer was perfectly healthy with the exception of being blind in that eye. the broad head stopped just short of penetrating his skull and entering his brain cavity. anything can happen
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Post by trapperdave on Jun 5, 2012 8:53:41 GMT -5
I passed on a buck in HNF once years ago during shotgun season, a guy a couple hundred yards away shot it. I went to offer assistance. Upon lookin at the deer, we found a broadhead buried in the skull behind the ear.
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Post by lugnutz on Jun 5, 2012 20:04:37 GMT -5
Imo, the problem isn't that hunters,don't know where to aim, its that they can't hit the exact spot for several reasons. One could be that they don't practice enough, because they believe modern equip. will make up the difference in ability. The other could be they are taken longer shots. I've lately seen and tracked deer shot at 50-7o yards. Back in the day, it was 20-30 with never over 40. Again, the root cause is perception that modern equip. will make up the extra distance. It won't. Other causes could be simply taking marginal shots due to being impatient. If you've not recovered a deer un the last few years, examine the root cause. There has to be one, )ecause if you had done everything correctly, it would a been different. I wouldn't worry about how many someone else has killed, as it has nothing to do with it. Wrong again, it has EVERYTHING to do with how many someone has killed when taking advice from them, such as yourself. Especially with archery equipment. Having a gun hunter tell an Archer where to hit a deer at is pointless.
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Post by lugnutz on Jun 5, 2012 20:07:52 GMT -5
I believe that a lot of the "hit him too far back" shots are from shooting at a walking deer. By the time a bowhunter's mind says shoot, he/she triggers the trigger, the arrow gets there the deer has moved enough distance to make the POI further back than the point of aim. The further out from your stand the deer is the more that is increased. If one is going to shoot at a walking deer they ned to lead the deer. Me? I "BAH" at the deer to stop him.. I've also noticed novice shooters look around their string as soon as the arrow is released, also causing the arrow a left/right flight pattern.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 20:41:13 GMT -5
Jason I quit counting my archery kills at 150, about the same time I figure out its not the kills that matter, but the ones that weren't recovered. Soon as you figure that out, you'll be a much better hunter. Imo, the problem isn't that hunters,don't know where to aim, its that they can't hit the exact spot for several reasons. One could be that they don't practice enough, because they believe modern equip. will make up the difference in ability. The other could be they are taken longer shots. I've lately seen and tracked deer shot at 50-7o yards. Back in the day, it was 20-30 with never over 40. Again, the root cause is perception that modern equip. will make up the extra distance. It won't. Other causes could be simply taking marginal shots due to being impatient. If you've not recovered a deer un the last few years, examine the root cause. There has to be one, )ecause if you had done everything correctly, it would a been different. I wouldn't worry about how many someone else has killed, as it has nothing to do with it. Wrong again, it has EVERYTHING to do with how many someone has killed when taking advice from them, such as yourself. Especially with archery equipment. Having a gun hunter tell an Archer where to hit a deer at is pointless.
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Post by lugnutz on Jun 5, 2012 21:06:36 GMT -5
So it does matter how many you kill when asking for advice? And for the ones you didn't find, what was the root cause for them? Where you a bad hunter?
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