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Post by BOBinIN on Dec 22, 2012 8:19:20 GMT -5
Like so many other Hoosiers who expect to hunt next year with a "side hammer" muzzleloader, I'm dusting off my old 45 caliber, 1 in 54 twist Springfield musket. I haven't used the rifle in at least 35 years and have plenty of round balls to start with. But... what I'm looking for is a conical bullet with more weight and punch than the 130 grain round ball can supply. It appears that all the manufacturers of hollow base conicals are out of business or don't make a slug for the 45. Does anyone out there have source? Thanks, BOB
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Post by parson on Dec 22, 2012 9:41:39 GMT -5
BOBinIN,
I'd be surprised if your 1:54 will stabilize a conical.
If you know anyone who casts they might be able to make you up something workable.
I haven't use my .45 long rifle in a few years, but round balls always got 'er done.
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Post by BOBinIN on Dec 22, 2012 12:36:15 GMT -5
Parson, Not being familiar with conicals in a slow twist .45...I found on the internet info that says the following:
"1:48" twist barrels shoot patched roundballs fine up to about 1800 fps and under 1750 fps with conicals. 1:66" twist barrels shoot patched roundball over the entire velocity range quite accurately."
There is no mention of my 1 in 54 twist, so I felt conicals "might" work and were worth giving a try. I do have some 40 cal. SST 200 grain bullets and 45 cal. sabots that I intend to try just to see if they go through paper straight at 50 yards. I can't help but feel that the 130 grain balls are on the light side for cleanly taking deer. I'm planning on doing some shooting with the old gun after the first... (on a warm day)! BOB
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Post by parson on Dec 23, 2012 7:19:55 GMT -5
That 1:54 twist is one I'm not familiar with. I do know that the 1:48 is kind of "borderline" for conicals in .50 cal.
My son & I have identical CVA mountain rifles in .50. His shoots conicals fine but mine never would. However, mine is extremely accurate with patched roundballs.
My .45 cal. longrifle is 1:66 and it is quite accurate with patched balls also. I've never tried any conicals in it.
It'll be interesting to see how your rifle shoots those .40 cal bullets. I hope that you post your results. I hope that it knocks the bullseye out for ya!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 9:13:43 GMT -5
You might consider shooting two patched balls instead of the conical. They will print about 5-6" apart at 100 yards and maybe a tad lower but close to where one would hit. Does add some recoil though.
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Post by BOBinIN on Dec 23, 2012 10:08:08 GMT -5
You might consider shooting two patched balls instead of the conical. They will print about 5-6" apart at 100 yards and maybe a tad lower but close to where one would hit. Does add some recoil though. Tmex, The plan is to use the rifle for deer hunting in Indiana...we have the limitation of "a SINGLE ball shaped or elongated bullet". Thus no need to investigate...but I like the way you think. BOB
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Post by stevein on Dec 23, 2012 11:16:46 GMT -5
You might try the LEE REAL bullets. They are not much longer than a roundball. Boost her up to 80 or 90 grains and you should be good to 100 yards.
Is that the old H&R trapdoor with a ML barrel mounted? My brother had one complete with the 4 click lock.
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Post by BOBinIN on Dec 25, 2012 9:41:46 GMT -5
Stevein, I would really like to find someone who has the Lee die in 45 cal. 200 grain slug to try a few before having to purchasing the die, just to give it a try. I just can't seem to find a vendor who sells these slugs!
The rifle...It's an 1864 Springfield muzzleloader that was sent back to the armory after the Civil war to be outfitted with the 50-70 Trapdoor cartridge mechanism and barrel. In about 1971, I purchased a replacement barrel in 45 caliber that makes the old gun a muzzleloader again. The barrel was made by Numrich Arms and sold by Dixie Gun Works with a 1 in 54 twist. So actually...the barrel at 40 years old is much newer than the gun at 148 years. I know that it shoots round balls, but I'd like to see how it does with a conical bullet to use on deer, maybe next fall. If you know of somebody who can help me with the REAL bullet in 45 cal, let me know. Thanks, BOB
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Post by stevein on Dec 25, 2012 13:17:30 GMT -5
I would search eBay. Lee molds are not too expensive anyhow. A place called RUSH CREEK ROUNDBALL used to carry a variety of cast balls and bullets. I will try to find a phone # for you. Numrich barrels were very good in the day and I know the barrel you have. A .45 pistol bullet may work if you know someone to cast you some.
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Post by single_shooter on Jan 19, 2013 13:26:14 GMT -5
www.prbullet.com/Go here - look - read - study - choose....simple as that Any questions call them up and they will tell you the best way to go for a conical in your rifle. I shoot nothing but these in my Encores now and have had several guys I know switch to them after shooting my rifles. Have fun and buy plenty of powder to play around with your loads!! Enjoy!!
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Post by BOBinIN on Feb 1, 2013 10:01:31 GMT -5
You might try the LEE REAL bullets. They are not much longer than a roundball. Boost her up to 80 or 90 grains and you should be good to 100 yards. Stevein...If you remember, I couldn't find a conical for my .45 so I took your advise and ordered the Lee REAL mold in a double cavity 200 grain slug. I'm pleased to say I couldn't be happier... and so glad you gave me your suggestion! This is "one hole punchin' rifle" now. I discovered that with 5 grains of Pyrodex RS down the tube first, followed by 70 (weighed) grains of Blackhorn 209 I can get the 200 grain slug to leave the muzzle at 2115 FPS and carry 800 Ft/Lb of energy to 110 yards, and 2" or less groups at 50 yards. Cleanup is a snap and it's not necessary to swab the bore between shots anymore, thanks to the BH209 powder. I did find it necessary to pack a foam disc (punched from a meat tray) down the bore after the slug to insure that the slug doesn't slip and move away from the powder charge, as the slugs slip pretty easily down the tube. I'll be looking forward to next deer season and this is the rifle I'll be carrying. Thanks again for all the help. BOB
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Post by stevein on Feb 1, 2013 22:09:36 GMT -5
Bob thank you for the reply. Looks like you are set with your rifle. I wonder if that mold could be lapped out a few thousandths to give you a better fit. I replace the overshot wad on my ML shotgun often for fear of it coming loose. Steve
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Post by BOBinIN on Feb 18, 2013 9:26:36 GMT -5
It'll be interesting to see how your rifle shoots those .40 cal bullets. I hope that you post your results. I hope that it knocks the bullseye out for ya! Parson, and anyone else that is interested in the results... I did shoot the 40 cal. 200 grain SST bullets in the 40/45 cal. tan sabots...at 50 yards the results were terrible. All of the bullets tore through the paper sideways and were extremely inaccurate. It was worth the effort to find out that they won't shoot in my slow twist barrel, but that's OK... the Lee REAL bullets will kill any deer very nicely. BOB
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Post by parson on Feb 18, 2013 12:07:29 GMT -5
Thanks for the report. I've been curious as to how the longer bullets would work for you. Sounds like you're set with the REAL bullets.
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Post by elmo on Mar 25, 2013 1:43:13 GMT -5
Bob my White whitelightning has a barrel that is actually .504 and shoots 50 cal conicals. The White website said for me to pop a cap or 2 and then load to keep the slug in place. This may help you to not have to put a foam disc in your barrel. Dave's bullets is where I get my conicals. Sorry, I haven't been on this site to much since I've been in Malaysia.
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Post by BOBinIN on May 26, 2013 14:31:54 GMT -5
Bob my White whitelightning has a barrel that is actually .504 and shoots 50 cal conicals. The White website said for me to pop a cap or 2 and then load to keep the slug in place. This may help you to not have to put a foam disc in your barrel. Dave's bullets is where I get my conicals. Sorry, I haven't been on this site to much since I've been in Malaysia. Elmo, Thanks for the tip, I'll give that a try before this hunting season. And, by the way, "welcome home traveler"!
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Post by jackryan on Jan 6, 2014 0:05:02 GMT -5
delete
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Post by jackryan on Jul 11, 2014 21:58:12 GMT -5
Looks like I did the same thing again. deleted.
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