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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 16, 2014 22:15:13 GMT -5
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Post by dbd870 on Apr 17, 2014 4:27:30 GMT -5
It takes quite an ego to have that kind of arrogance.
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Apr 17, 2014 5:16:21 GMT -5
Reminds me of the priest on the golf course in "Caddy Shack"!
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Apr 17, 2014 10:43:16 GMT -5
Matthew chapter 7 ...MANY will say ..., but I will say to them, "Depart from me ye worker of inequity; I NEVER knew you."
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Post by swilk on Apr 18, 2014 5:57:00 GMT -5
A disqualifier??
I thought the way it supposedly worked was no matter what you did in life as long as you basically said sorry and "accepted" God or Jesus into your heart that all was well? To be done before you die of course.....
Gonna be a lot of born again folks in prison for murder/rape/robbery etc that are disappointed if that isn't the case.
Of course maybe God just changes his mind from time to time....changes up the rules for entrance to keep things fresh.
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Post by steve46511 on Apr 18, 2014 7:08:30 GMT -5
A disqualifier?? I thought the way it supposedly worked was no matter what you did in life as long as you basically said sorry and "accepted" God or Jesus into your heart that all was well? To be done before you die of course..... Gonna be a lot of born again folks in prison for murder/rape/robbery etc that are disappointed if that isn't the case. Of course maybe God just changes his mind from time to time....changes up the rules for entrance to keep things fresh. I am probably speaking out of turn within a subject I am not included in but..... 2 cents IMHO......the "disqualifier" is the "IF" in the phrase. I have no personal understanding how someone can except Christ as Lord and Savior and not KNOW that He exists. I too feel that the statement, as printed anyway, CLEARLY indicates Christ does not have a place in this man's life ........ therefore "indicating" that his statement is incorrect. It IS.....however, between Christ and this man so, as said, only my 2 cents. I am positive I would have asked the obvious question had the statement been within a conversation with someone personally. No offense meant. God Bless
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Post by swilk on Apr 18, 2014 7:17:05 GMT -5
My point was no matter what he says now .... as long as he changes before his death all is good. Right?
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Post by steve46511 on Apr 18, 2014 7:46:57 GMT -5
My point was no matter what he says now .... as long as he changes before his death all is good. Right? In MY opinion?.......not quite. He decides yet if someone PLANS to accept Christ when they know they are dying??? "Using it" as a fail safe plan? Hmmmmm. He will speak or is now speaking to all. Turn a deaf ear to Him, refuse His offering of salvation and set aside His commandments purposely, KNOWING that He speaks to you........and I personally have my doubts if He listens to many. I apologize to my brethren here who feel differently. No offense Swilk but I will not debate the subject further. He speaks and we listen when He does so.....or not. He has plans for each of us that included sharing His word and His works. Perhaps only human of me but IMHO DENYING God has many forms, all of which reap eternal damnation. The best of all worlds is Him in your LIFE. Start the blessings of His gifts, His word, His guidance and not only make salvation a given......make life what He intends it to be. (for those whom hesitate). God Bless
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Post by swilk on Apr 18, 2014 7:58:29 GMT -5
Hhmmm.... I guess there is always one of the other "heavens". Surely someone would let him in.
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Post by swilk on Apr 18, 2014 9:09:09 GMT -5
I guess considering the entire system is faith based all that really matters is what the individual believes. Doesnt really matter what anyone else thinks.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Apr 18, 2014 14:14:04 GMT -5
Hello gun slinger , You are asking great questions. I will be happy to answer any. If you want to do it privately, you can PM me, call me or we can meet; I’ll drive anywhere. Steve is correct that it's the "if" that dooms the statement. Please bear with me as I explain the simple plan of salvation. Yes, some good people (in the eyes of men) will fall short of God's glory, and yes, some evil people will gain entrance at the last minute just like the thief on the cross did. The thief believed in his heart that Jesus was the living Son of God (God in the flesh). The thief recognized his sin and the penalty for it. If one doesn’t realize that they are lost, will they ask to be found??? Even though he was not worthy, he asked Jesus to remember him. It’s this simple! The simple truth is that all have sinned and fallen short. All of man's righteousness is a filthy rag to God. We just can’t be good enough. No goodness that we could or ever will do will get us into heaven, and the only thing that will send anyone to hell is the rejection of the shed blood of Jesus Christ to cover their sin. Only perfection will enter heaven. We obviously cannot be perfect, so God in his love for us paid the price for us ...if we want it. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin. Christ had to shed his blood; He became the perfect blood sacrifice. We basically put on His righteousness when we accept it. He doesn’t force it on anyone, and no one can accept it for us. It cannot be bought by giving trillions to the church. It is a free gift to the world. One might say, well it’s not free if we have to be good and go to church blah blah blah after we get saved. Exactly, we can never deserve it on our own merit. Sure, we will still sin. I sin, but do not practice sin and I HATE my sin. Jesus’ shed blood covers my sin, past, present and future. Some people tell me that they just wouldn’t be able to live a Christian life. Well I can’t on my own, and I’ve walked with him for 42 years. If one truly gives their heart to the Lord and accepts His gift; God will work the things out of our life that he doesn’t want there. It’s a growth process. He can use me to do things now that he couldn’t last year. I allow God to do good through me; I study to show myself approved, I spread the good news, but I do not put my faith in these things. I cling only to the shed blood of Jesus for my salvation. I do these things, because I love him, but He loved me first and gave me the love to love him back. The things others see in me are the fruits of the Spirit that is in me; an apple tree will bear apples. Matthew chapter 7 gives clarity to the subject of gaining access to heaven, and is a good test to see where one is putting their faith. If I were a betting man, I would bet that Bloomberg’s response to this question would be similar to the example in Matthew 7. I sometimes will ask a person, “If you were to stand before God and he ask, “Why should I let you into my kingdom?” how would you answer?” This is in no way a litmus test, but will show what one is putting their faith in to gain eternal life. Jesus said that MANY, not a few, but MANY will say to him in that day (judgment day), “ I have cast out demons and healed the sick and done many great works in your name” However, the response is, “Depart from me you worker of inequity; I NEVER knew you.” Bloomberg might say that he did great good for humanity with his wealth .... However, the response will be the same. Wow, this is scary. God did not call this soul a liar; he did those great acts of works, but God never knew him. God did not say that I once knew you, but you fell away. It is very straight forward that this soul was putting faith in their good works …trying to earn their way into heaven, and this cannot be done. We cannot earn it. NOTHING but putting faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ to cover one’s sin will do it. How does one do this? Well, it doesn’t just happen, and we don’t grow into it. Jesus said that one must be born again. He was speaking of a spiritual birth in that it happens at a specific point in time. Yes, I have a spiritual birthday. Before that day, I was not born into the family of God. Now I am a child of the one and only true God. I knew that I was a sinner and fell short. I believed that Jesus is truly the Son of God (God in the flesh). I accepted the gift of Jesus’ shed blood to take my place, and I confessed it with my mouth and will until there is no breath left in me. Behold, I stand at the door and knock, any that will open, I will surely come in. Jesus is knocking on the door of the lost heart. All one has to do is open the door and invite him in, and he will.
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Post by swilk on Apr 18, 2014 15:01:02 GMT -5
Like I said its a faith based system. I guess it's all up to whatever the individual believes.
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Post by swilk on Apr 18, 2014 15:06:04 GMT -5
many bad men find God after leading long, bad lives. If you think the word "if" disqualifies this guy what are their chances? Like I said faith-based ....... person has to have faith .... that's all that matters.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Apr 18, 2014 15:30:14 GMT -5
many bad men find God after leading long, bad lives. If you think the word "if" disqualifies this guy what are their chances? Like I said faith-based ....... person has to have faith .... that's all that matters. The term "if" implies uncertainty that there even is a God period. That's all we're saying. All who accept him know that he is. ...but then faith in what? Only one thing and it's not the reasons that he thinks he's going. This is where we're coming from. It has nothing to do with us being conservatives or if we like him or not. We're looking at what he gave us, and he gave us uncertainty and works. We would have this same response to any making a statement like this. Oh, I would think that it happens for people to come to true repentance on the deathbed. I don't remember saying many, but sure it happens. I sure hope they do.
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Post by swilk on Apr 18, 2014 15:33:35 GMT -5
And "if" sometime in the future he eliminates the word "if" and fully embraces God then he is good to go.
I know what you guys are saying.....do you know what I am saying?
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Post by swilk on Apr 18, 2014 15:35:55 GMT -5
And then again God might just think he is a swell dude and let him in anyway....he is God. He can do whatever he wants.....it isn't for any man to say what he will or will not do.
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Post by swilk on Apr 18, 2014 15:38:55 GMT -5
Sorry for the back to back to back posts....on my phone.
Im not sure where the deathbed or near death stuff came from but I never said or implied the sudden belief near his death. Just said before his death. Maybe he already realized he said "if" and asked God for a mulligan.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Apr 18, 2014 15:41:28 GMT -5
And then again God might just think he is a swell dude and let him in anyway....he is God. He can do whatever he wants.....it isn't for any man to say what he will or will not do. What you are speaking of is the wisdom of the world. The problem is that God is just. He cannot let anyone in on any basis. He is faithful to His word. If one knows Him, one knows what He will do, because He's already told us, but I do not expect the world to understand this.
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Post by swilk on Apr 18, 2014 15:52:57 GMT -5
There are sooooo many different beliefs that fall under the Christian umbrella I'm sure he will be fine.......
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Apr 18, 2014 16:06:01 GMT -5
LOL.
I've seen worse guys change. I'm not concerned about Bloomberg; I'm concerned for you. You're not a bad guy swilk; you're just blind as I once was. There's a place for guys like you in the church body, and no matter how much or fast you run, if He's after you, He'll get you. None can come, but that they are called. Be ready when He knocks, because He will.
You'd make a good fisherman of men. Come with me.
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