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Post by squirrelhunter on Aug 28, 2014 9:07:48 GMT -5
Is that better?? I still stand by what's left.
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Post by esshup on Aug 28, 2014 9:11:31 GMT -5
Google "gun tourism" and you will see why she was shooting it in the first place.
I agree, stupid, stupid, stupid.
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Post by swilk on Aug 28, 2014 9:17:04 GMT -5
Im not asking you, or anyone else, to change your opinion. I just get the sense that many gun owners would be willing to let it slide if legislation came out prohibiting the circumstances that led to this incident. If it happens I think it would be legislation looking to solve a problem that does not exist while at the same time chewing away a little more at our Second Amendment rights.
You hear the word "need" a lot by those who wish to take our guns away .... when a situation comes along where even gun owners start using that same word I just ask folks to stop and think. Think about the situation. Think about everything.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 9:53:05 GMT -5
I believe I'd gladly let it slide if they put an age limit on shooting a fully automatic weapon. If you can't drive a car, you probably shouldn't be shooting an Uzi. Just a thought.
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Post by swilk on Aug 28, 2014 10:03:06 GMT -5
Many feel the same way as you Met .... I however do not. If I do not want my children shooting a fully automatic weapon I do not need a law telling them they cant. If I feel they are capable and sufficiently trained in other weapon types I do not want a law telling them they cant, under my supervision, shoot an automatic weapon. And then we have to worry about legislators who, like the CNN commentator, do not know the difference between semi auto and fully automatic weapons when drafting the legislation. All of the sudden it becomes illegal for my daughter to shoot her 10/22. www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIKfoO-JTcc
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Post by squirrelhunter on Aug 28, 2014 10:19:20 GMT -5
Metamorahunter that's what I'm saying.Whether it's the word "need","reason" or "business" I think that's too young for an automatic weapon. With a bolt action or semi-auto weapon the person will know after 1 shot if the gun is too much,with a fully auto 1 they'll shoot off several rounds before there reaction tells them to let go of the trigger. Is a 5 year old shooting a 50 cal BMG a good thing,I doubt it. I'm all for kids shooting guns with proper training but we must realize they can't handle the recoil or control them like adults and age restrictions on using something like an automatic weapon I have no problem with.But I also don't see a problem with them shooting them if the instructor has ahold of it good enough to control it if the kid can't,but who's to say it's always going to happen,just like here. We have age restrictions on driving,drinking,voting and joining the service,why not this?? I'm not saying they should make a restriction,I'm just saying I have no problem with it. Woody,if there's anything I've said today on this thread you don't like you're more than welcome to delete it,no hard feelings from me. I'm just saying my opinion and don't want to cause trouble.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 28, 2014 10:30:41 GMT -5
Metamorahunter that's what I'm saying.Whether it's the word "need","reason" or "business" I think that's too young for an automatic weapon. With a bolt action or semi-auto weapon the person will know after 1 shot if the gun is too much, with a fully auto 1 they'll shoot off several rounds before there reaction tells them to let go of the trigger. Is a 5 year old shooting a 50 cal BMG a good thing,I doubt it. I'm all for kids shooting guns with proper training but we must realize they can't handle the recoil or control them like adults and age restrictions on using something like an automatic weapon I have no problem with. But I also don't see a problem with them shooting them if the instructor has ahold of it good enough to control it if the kid can't,but who's to say it's always going to happen, just like here. We have age restrictions on driving, drinking, voting and joining the service, why not this?? Woody,if there's anything I've said today on this thread you don't like you're more than welcome to delete it,no hard feelings from me. I'm just saying my opinion and don't want to cause trouble. Absolutely not on what you've said. ALL our opinions count and I would not dream of trying to stifle anyone's opinion. Personally I'm a fence rider on this. I can see both points of view.. As Met pointed out we don't allow a kid less than 16 to drive a car, even if they are properly instructed and some training. You followed that up with some other good examples. All those is a pretty good analogies to me... I guess that some of us are VERY protective of gun rights, as it should be..
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Aug 28, 2014 10:37:57 GMT -5
Way I see it, there are already child endangerment laws that could be applied regarding kids running around with Uzis and .50 BMGs. Fact is, that gun could have just as easily whipped around and have been pointed at the child's head. Sure, the instructor showed poor judgement and paid a terrible price, but it is also the parents' responsibility to know their own childrens' limits.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 10:39:38 GMT -5
Some of this plain comes down to science. While the human body develops at very different paces from child to child due to many variables, both environmental and genetic, the human brain develops at a fairly predictable rate across the board, under normal conditions. That's why I think age limits make a lot of sense. I totally get how giving an inch can cost you a mile when it comes to gun control, but I see age restrictions as a separate issue.
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Post by swilk on Aug 28, 2014 10:47:44 GMT -5
So what's the age? And what weapons limitations?
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Post by squirrelhunter on Aug 28, 2014 11:04:42 GMT -5
I'm sort of on the fence too,I understand the others view and don't see why we need a law,common sense should be enough,but yet sometimes we need laws for people who don't have common sense,that hurt the ones that do. I totally understand the worry about more gun control,we've had a hard fight already and things like this will have the gun grabbers all over it.But yet again,maybe we need another restriction.Either way has good points and bad.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 13:43:32 GMT -5
So what's the age? And what weapons limitations? I'm not gun expert enough to speak intelligently on this. I'd say that after one is old enough to be trusted with a motor vehicle, any age restrictions should be dropped, however.
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Post by span870 on Aug 28, 2014 14:23:50 GMT -5
The problem I have is trusting the government to have common sense in what age restrictions should be in place. I still don't understand why an 18 year old can serve our country and good forbid die for our freedom but that can't enjoy a beer or buy a handgun. That's what common sense government laws gets you. It's not the governments job to raise our kids just like it's not teachers responsibility to raise them. Parents raise your kids. Remember we have all kinds of laws that are on the books to protect us. I'm pretty sure a convicted felon can't carry s handgun. You read every day where some thug shot someone. Why does so many people want the government to protect us from ourselves. My opinion here is the parents should be charged with negligent homicide. This was not an accident. Just like most hunting accidents are not accidents.The parents are at fault 100% on this one.
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Post by firstwd on Aug 28, 2014 16:15:29 GMT -5
First, I know dozens if kids under 16 that have and currently do drive the public roadways and not a word was or is said - me being included on that list. That's what living in farm country gets you.
I am a 4-H shooting sports instructor, NRA certified range master, and hunter ed instructor. In this instance, I say the blame lies on the instructor. We have kids as young as 5 on our ranges handling handguns and the safety of all on the range is the range master and the range instructors responsibility.
As for age restrictions on shooting guns, any guns, that is just the first step down a very steep slippery slope towards firearm elimination.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 16:34:35 GMT -5
First, I know dozens if kids under 16 that have and currently do drive the public roadways and not a word was or is said - me being included on that list. That's what living in farm country gets you. I am a 4-H shooting sports instructor, NRA certified range master, and hunter ed instructor. In this instance, I say the blame lies on the instructor. We have kids as young as 5 on our ranges handling handguns and the safety of all on the range is the range master and the range instructors responsibility. As for age restrictions on shooting guns, any guns, that is just the first step down a very steep slippery slope towards firearm elimination. I respectfully defer you your obvious qualifications and experience. But I would ask you, is there a valid scenario where you, as an instructor, would put an Uzi into the hands of a 9 year old?
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Post by jackryan on Aug 28, 2014 17:27:08 GMT -5
Stupid eh? Yet people all over Indiana take 9 year olds deer hunting and turkey hunting and they take them to ranges all over, including public ranges and think nothing of handing them guns. I don't mean BB guns or even 22's either and not just on private ground where they are only putting their own lives at risk. I've seen it plenty of times shooting with the rest of the public.
Just in the past month I was shooting at a range with a kid not much more than belt buckle tall, I'm not sure his age, but he was shooting every thing every one brought to the range. Full auto uzi, AR's, grease guns, Thompson 45 full auto. No body thought much of it or acted like it was particularly stupid. There was several legit RO's and firearms instructors present when it was going on.
If that was stupid, what is when "Dad" hands a kid a shotgun or rifle they have to use UNDER their arm pit to try out or shoot at a deer? What is it making a special season for youths that can't handle a legitimate firearm for the game their Dad wants to pursue so he sends them out to wound a dozen with an old 410?
You can't have it both ways. It's stupid this time because someone got killed but it's just peachy dandy when I want to hunt a weekend before the real season and we always got away with it before.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 17:48:37 GMT -5
I would not put anything that kicks hard in the hands of a youngster. Only asking for bad habits to form. That's why my daughter shoots a single shot .357 mag handi-rifle. And she's dang good with it too. She's not ready to get kicked.
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Post by firstwd on Aug 28, 2014 18:15:30 GMT -5
First, I know dozens if kids under 16 that have and currently do drive the public roadways and not a word was or is said - me being included on that list. That's what living in farm country gets you. I am a 4-H shooting sports instructor, NRA certified range master, and hunter ed instructor. In this instance, I say the blame lies on the instructor. We have kids as young as 5 on our ranges handling handguns and the safety of all on the range is the range master and the range instructors responsibility. As for age restrictions on shooting guns, any guns, that is just the first step down a very steep slippery slope towards firearm elimination. I respectfully defer you your obvious qualifications and experience. But I would ask you, is there a valid scenario where you, as an instructor, would put an Uzi into the hands of a 9 year old? Honestly, I would. I also run a range different. I had an ISP firearms instructor come through a hunter ed camp with his 11 yo son. He sat down with me at dinner after range day and introduced himself as well as his profession. He said he was worried about how we could have range activity with long time shooters and gunfire virgins at the same time. He then thanked me for the insight he learned, took plans for our boxes, and said he might actually use them at ISP events. Our ranges use shooting boxes that the guns are positioned through. Unless the shooters pull the guns backwards or leans forward and turns it intentionally, there is no way to turn the muzzle away from down range. Under those circumstances, I wouldn't have an issue with a 9 yo shooting the Uzi.
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Post by swilk on Aug 28, 2014 18:35:25 GMT -5
If I had to guess....and it would be a guess....I would say by the end of my ninth year on earth I had sent several thousand rounds downrange. Mostly .22 but several, several hundred 12g rounds from an old M11 Remington.
Experience can come without age.
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Post by firstwd on Aug 28, 2014 19:04:40 GMT -5
If I had to guess....and it would be a guess....I would say by the end of my ninth year on earth I had sent several thousand rounds downrange. Mostly .22 but several, several hundred 12g rounds from an old M11 Remington. Experience can come without age. Agreed. I was shooting a .38 snub - nose at 5yo.
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