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Post by firstwd on Sept 2, 2014 18:32:58 GMT -5
Why do you think a 30/30 or .270 is a worse option than the wildcat rifles currently legal?
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Post by scrobertson on Sept 2, 2014 19:44:55 GMT -5
Ammo is more available. Guns in these caliber s are more available
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Post by scrobertson on Sept 2, 2014 20:02:09 GMT -5
They are also cheaper to buy...
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Post by firstwd on Sept 2, 2014 20:12:56 GMT -5
So center fire rifles are alright as long as they are only available to those with enough means to afford them? I guess drug dealers would make the list of people that should be allowed to hunt with one.
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Post by span870 on Sept 2, 2014 20:18:53 GMT -5
How many against are strictly bow hunters? From feedback I've been seeing this is where most of the opposition is coming from.
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Post by subzero350 on Sept 2, 2014 20:34:05 GMT -5
So center fire rifles are alright as long as they are only available to those with enough means to afford them? I guess drug dealers would make the list of people that should be allowed to hunt with one. A friend of mine, who is against the proposed opening up of much more common centerfire rifle cartridges, says it would kill entrepreneurs (ie: the little guy) who is carving out a niche making the wildcat stuff. I can understand where he is coming from since he is friends with some of those people. But owning my own business, I have had to learn how to change and adjust to what the market is doing in order to survive. Things happen all the time that are out of my control as a business owner so you have to learn to roll with the punches or I'll just end up folding up and blowing away. But I'm with you, firstwd - I don't have the money to "invest" in a wildcat rifle or conversion and would like something more accurate than a 12ga or muzzleloader available for hunting deer. But that having been said, I can see where a lot of guys who spent tons of money on getting that wildcat gear would be upset if this law passes. My brother-in-law is against it outright. He only hunts public land and fears someone from miles away is going to shoot him. I cited the Ohio story where the guy cleaning his muzzleloader shot and killed an Amish girl from 1.5 miles away by accident but he didn't care. I probably should have told him he could have been hunting in a group with somebody like Dick Cheney and gotten shot from probably just feet away. Doesn't take a HPR to do damage if the person wielding the gun acts like an idiot when he has one. My dad is the same way. He thinks centerfire rifle cartridges are too powerful for hunting deer in this state period. Can't get him to change his mind about that no matter what physics lessons or studies I cite. I think some people have just been indoctrinated for so long with false gun myths it is going to be impossible to change their minds on this issue.
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Post by subzero350 on Sept 2, 2014 20:41:45 GMT -5
How many against are strictly bow hunters? From feedback I've been seeing this is where most of the opposition is coming from. I wonder how many of these bow-only hunters are also the same ones that want to ban crossbows? And of those, I wonder how many would vehemently oppose a ban on compound bows - forcing them to only use long bows or recurves? Selfishness is going to bring about the downfall of hunting as a sport. Just give it time.
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Post by span870 on Sept 2, 2014 20:45:52 GMT -5
How many against are strictly bow hunters? From feedback I've been seeing this is where most of the opposition is coming from. I wonder how many of these bow-only hunters are also the same ones that want to ban crossbows? And of those, I wonder how many would vehemently oppose a ban on compound bows - forcing them to only use long bows or recurves? Selfishness is going to bring about the downfall of hunting as a sport. Just give it time. The majority
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Sept 2, 2014 20:54:14 GMT -5
I've got several HPRs I use to hunt other states. If this passes, I don't know if I'll even actually use them.. I'm kind of sentimental about my current Indiana guns. But I like the idea that I can use my HPRs if I want to.
There are many states that have similar population densities to Indiana that allow HPRs. I've never seen any evidence that more people are accidentally shot in those states than in Indiana.
I also don't see as where northern Indiana, being flat, would need different regs than the southern half of the state. Which bullet is going to go farther - one shot parallel to the flat ground surface, or one shot at a deer on top of a big hill?
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Post by firstwd on Sept 2, 2014 21:24:58 GMT -5
I seem to keep seeing old thought processes, like HPR's carry farther and are more deadly than shotguns or muzzle loaders and that tons or people are going to come crawling out of the woodwork the start deer hunting with an HPR. One thing I am sure of is one gun can not kill you deader than another. As for a mass migration of new hunters, like most every other new hunting tool, it is current hunters switching around what they use and not new hunters in the woods.
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Post by throbak on Sept 2, 2014 22:27:36 GMT -5
I am Bow and MZL and I am against it so not all fit that description But I can tell you this any one living in or near a Amish community better be prepared for a HUGE Deer reduction if Passed you can take that to the bank guys
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Post by jjas on Sept 2, 2014 22:33:41 GMT -5
As I previously posted.....
I've been gun/bow hunting deer in Indiana since the early/mid 80's. I've used smoothbore slug guns with open sights and foster slugs, fully rifled barrel slug guns with "high tech" saboted slugs, and pcrs. None of these guns were/are consistent moa shooters, but they did/do the job.
Why did I change equipment over the years? One simple reason. Better, more consistent accuracy. I see nothing wrong with trying to be more accurate. It equates to more humane kills. It's the same reason most people switched from longbows and recurves to compound bows. Better, more consistent accuracy. And that's what centerfire rifles can bring to Indiana's firearm hunters? Better, more consistent accuracy.
Compound bows, rifled slug guns, inline muzzleloaders, pistols and pcrs, were all (according to some) going to lead to the ruination of deer hunting in Indiana. And lo and behold, there are still deer in Indiana. And if centerfire rifles are adopted, there still will be. Why people lose their minds every time a new piece of equipment is proposed for use in this state is beyond me.
Whether you support the rifle proposal or think it's a bad idea, @ least we have a chance to let our opinions be heard.
And I for one am thankful for that opportunity.
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Post by subzero350 on Sept 2, 2014 22:40:11 GMT -5
I am Bow and MZL and I am against it so not all fit that description But I can tell you this any one living in or near a Amish community better be prepared for a HUGE Deer reduction if Passed you can take that to the bank guys I sometimes hunt in Noble county and there are already a ton of Amish who currently hunt with guns (don't know about bows because I haven't bow hunted in Noble Co. yet). So I don't see how allowing the use of more centerfire rifles is going to change that or make the deer population plummet overnight. Like firstwd said, I think the legalization of new rifle cartridges isn't going to bring a host of new hunters into the fold but rather it will just have the effect of changing the type of equipment the current hunters use.
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Post by jackryan on Sept 2, 2014 22:48:27 GMT -5
How many against are strictly bow hunters? From feedback I've been seeing this is where most of the opposition is coming from. I wonder how many of these bow-only hunters are also the same ones that want to ban crossbows? And of those, I wonder how many would vehemently oppose a ban on compound bows - forcing them to only use long bows or recurves? Selfishness is going to bring about the downfall of hunting as a sport. Just give it time. NOBODY wanted to BAN crossbows. Crossbows were not a legal weapon to hunt deer in Indiana for decades and decades, since the inception of deer hunting regulations in fact. No one needed to ban them, they were never legal for regular hunters other than those with handicap permits. Now any one can use the same weapons only the handicapped could use before. Apparently it's still not enough for this generation of lame wannabees to kill a deer. They are in for a surprise though. It may seem like a good idea now but by the year after they still won't be able to kill anything they can't kill now. What will be left for them to cry and whine over then? Oh, I guess they could want to carry a bucket of corn out there. You are exactly on the money about selfishness destroying the sport. It's come a long way toward and I pretty much expect the resource to be destroyed and unhuntable with in 5 years. We are several years in to programs for slob hunters to have an excuse for killing deer they don't even want. Most of them pretty much kill twice as many or more than they tag and shoot ten times as many bullets in the field than deer they tag. At least, and that's with their "more accurate" weapons. Just you average run of the mill hunter today is about the most offensive slob hunter imaginable by standards of just 20 years ago.
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Post by subzero350 on Sept 2, 2014 23:14:39 GMT -5
NOBODY wanted to BAN crossbows. Past tense, maybe. But many currently want them banned. And for what? Selfish reasons is the only thing I can think of. Crossbows are more accurate and more powerful than most compound bows which affords a higher probability of a humane kill. What's wrong with that? How many compound bow hunters wound and don't kill their prey every year due to inexperience or any number of other reasons? And what's wrong with me wanting to use a crossbow instead so I DON'T blow out my shoulder? I rely on the health of my body to make a living and I've seen far too many compound bow hunters trash their bodies doing what they love and now they can't make a living doing what they know because of it. And why weren't they made legal for most at the inception of the first regulations and only made legal for a very few? Because of the bow hunting lobby (aka: anti-crossbowers), no doubt. Sorry, but that doesn't make it a legit reason and I'm glad the state of Indiana came to their senses. Again, the only reason why certain weapons were made available to a select few and banned for masses was because of the efforts of a group of selfish people who whined to the state about it in the first place. As for me, I don't care if you use a compound bow and only a compound bow to hunt deer. But don't tell me what I can use and what I can't use because YOU don't think it is enough of a challenge for ME. You don't know me nor do you know my skillset. Perhaps I shoot a compound bow better than you BUT I just choose to not blow out my shoulder on the advice of my doctor. Who's whining? The people I hear crying the loudest about anything on this forum are those who are trying ban crossbows. If you guys had your way the ONLY thing we would be allowed to hunt deer with would be compound bows, I bet. Again, this kind of BS is what is going to KILL this sport for everyone. EDIT TO ADD: FWIW, I don't even hunt over or near a food plot like so many others do which I believe skirts the law a bit. I never use bait and I don't even use scents.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 3:59:53 GMT -5
I wonder how many of these bow-only hunters are also the same ones that want to ban crossbows? And of those, I wonder how many would vehemently oppose a ban on compound bows - forcing them to only use long bows or recurves? Selfishness is going to bring about the downfall of hunting as a sport. Just give it time. NOBODY wanted to BAN crossbows. Crossbows were not a legal weapon to hunt deer in Indiana for decades and decades, since the inception of deer hunting regulations in fact. No one needed to ban them, they were never legal for regular hunters other than those with handicap permits. Now any one can use the same weapons only the handicapped could use before. Apparently it's still not enough for this generation of lame wannabees to kill a deer. They are in for a surprise though. It may seem like a good idea now but by the year after they still won't be able to kill anything they can't kill now. What will be left for them to cry and whine over then? Oh, I guess they could want to carry a bucket of corn out there. You are exactly on the money about selfishness destroying the sport. It's come a long way toward and I pretty much expect the resource to be destroyed and unhuntable with in 5 years. We are several years in to programs for slob hunters to have an excuse for killing deer they don't even want. Most of them pretty much kill twice as many or more than they tag and shoot ten times as many bullets in the field than deer they tag. At least, and that's with their "more accurate" weapons. Just you average run of the mill hunter today is about the most offensive slob hunter imaginable by standards of just 20 years ago. ^^^^ Sickening.
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Post by firstwd on Sept 3, 2014 5:38:14 GMT -5
I wonder how many of these bow-only hunters are also the same ones that want to ban crossbows? And of those, I wonder how many would vehemently oppose a ban on compound bows - forcing them to only use long bows or recurves? Selfishness is going to bring about the downfall of hunting as a sport. Just give it time. NOBODY wanted to BAN crossbows. Crossbows were not a legal weapon to hunt deer in Indiana for decades and decades, since the inception of deer hunting regulations in fact. No one needed to ban them, they were never legal for regular hunters other than those with handicap permits. Now any one can use the same weapons only the handicapped could use before. Apparently it's still not enough for this generation of lame wannabees to kill a deer. They are in for a surprise though. It may seem like a good idea now but by the year after they still won't be able to kill anything they can't kill now. What will be left for them to cry and whine over then? Oh, I guess they could want to carry a bucket of corn out there. You are exactly on the money about selfishness destroying the sport. It's come a long way toward and I pretty much expect the resource to be destroyed and unhuntable with in 5 years. We are several years in to programs for slob hunters to have an excuse for killing deer they don't even want. Most of them pretty much kill twice as many or more than they tag and shoot ten times as many bullets in the field than deer they tag. At least, and that's with their "more accurate" weapons. Just you average run of the mill hunter today is about the most offensive slob hunter imaginable by standards of just 20 years ago. The state is still in a Deer Reduction. The DNR themselves say that archery is mostly a hobby and not an effective management tool. Gun hunting is the preferred management tool to reduce deer numbers and maintain deer numbers. Center fire rifles are simply another, more accurate tool in that process. Maybe a large number of the current slob hunters using shotguns and waisting ammunition will shoot much better and lose far less deer this way......
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Post by dbd870 on Sept 3, 2014 6:23:48 GMT -5
I think some people have just been indoctrinated for so long with false gun myths it is going to be impossible to change their minds on this issue. This is most of it right there. Now there is the selfish group as well, but I do believe this is the main problem. "If you say something long enough it becomes true" - there really is something to that.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Sept 3, 2014 7:46:24 GMT -5
Seems to me that most of the people claiming HPRs, crossbows, etc., to be the doom of Indiana deer hunting are living in a bubble. Indiana is fairly unique in their caliber restrictions.. Yes, there are a few other "shotgun" states, but many more allow HPRs and always have, and are still experiencing fantastic deer hunting.
Why would Indiana be any different?
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Post by esshup on Sept 3, 2014 7:52:37 GMT -5
I wonder what the outcry would be if the state passed a new fluorescent orange reg? Say something like Wisconsin where 50% of the clothing above the waist must be fluro orange.
Oh BTW, they (Wi.) dropped the "shotgun only" requirement for their southern counties. Now CF rifles can be used statewide.
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