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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 12, 2014 6:27:27 GMT -5
I found it interesting that some other sights' posters are claiming that we are number 2 in big bucks as if that was great thing in our favor. They get that from a misleading article that uses a made up rating system to show which states are best for an out of state DIY hunter. It is not about what state is number 2 in big bucks. Big points were given to cost of NR tags, over the counter purchasing of such, the number of deer hunters in relation to trophy bucks taken, size of herd, and hunting land accessibility (as if that is easy in Indiana). The article says we have 1,000,000 ( that's a million) deer in our herd? Where in the world did they get that kind of number? The DNR doesn't even do guesstimates but an out of state outdoor writer can pull that number from where? The number of "trophy deer" is pretty easy to get but to divide that by number of hunters in the state he would have to have an accurate number. Even the DNR doesn't know how many deer hunters there are in Indiana with a huge portion either being lifetime license holders or landowners and their families. "Ease of accessilibty"? Wow! How did he get that one? The number one problem for recruiting is Indiana hunters finding a place to hunt. This is typical outdoor writer BS, but unfortunately some NRs will swallow it and head for Indiana and get a rude awakening. www.northamericanwhitetail.com/trophy-bucks/top-20-diy-whitetail-hunting-states/ |
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Post by dbd870 on Sept 12, 2014 8:23:08 GMT -5
From the article: It sure is!  |
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Post by HuntMeister on Sept 12, 2014 8:36:48 GMT -5
From the article: It sure is! I'm sure that small but important detail will go unnoticed by the masses... |
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Post by GS1 on Sept 12, 2014 8:37:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure about any other state as far as deer hunting, but I would rank Kentucky way ahead of Indiana when it comes to the potential to take a mature deer on public land.
I haven't deer hunted Nebraska yet, but from the sheds I have seen and picked up while on the ranches I turkey hunt, I'd put it before Indiana in odds of taking a trophy. It's all private ground, but getting access to several thousand acres is just a matter of asking enough people or knowing someone out there.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 8:48:26 GMT -5
That same publication did another list ranking best overall deer states. Indiana came out #4. Would have been higher but lost points due to high cost of purchasing land and high cost of leasing land. Also did not score well in estimated hunters per square mile (between 7 and 8).
Indiana's B&C and P&Y entries per hunter and availability of over the counter, cheap NR tags are what really push us way up the lists.
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Post by jjas on Sept 12, 2014 10:09:14 GMT -5
We all know that once a state gets the reputation for big bucks, a lot of hunters/outfitters are willing to plunk down big money to hunt there. And for Indiana, it's already begun.
I think Indiana needs to rethink the the pricing on NR licenses. I know it won't stop this from happening (nothing will, IMHO), but it might slow it down a bit and even if it doesn't, the state can @ least make some money from it.
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Post by shouldernuke on Sept 12, 2014 17:20:09 GMT -5
This I am sure is the same self promoting doofus that wrote the almost word for word blog on the team real tree site ranking deer hunting states a year ago .This article had the exact same numbers and jargon .
This guy got flamed on there by myself and some others as well .He admitted in that post when he attempted to rebut our flames .He said that he was just as qualified to make a herd estimate for Indiana as our DNR was because he could simply use the DNR harvest numbers and the QDMA web site map and a few other figures to get his numbers .So he stood by his estimates and published them in the first rag that would print them I see .
I was told the fact that I lived here did not give me any advantage to estimating our deer herd that residents tend to under estimate their herds because they don't have good luck hunting them many times .I did not know whether to be angry at that point or laugh hysterically at him as I posted back . This guys is a self absorbed ass-hat .He is a deer hunting salesman for the industry side of the sport is all he is .
look at the comments at the bottom the IN commenter has 23 agree marks and 0 disagree marks .Also After private discussions with this and the last biologists I can with a very high degree of certainty say that we have never seen a 1,000,000 animal deer herd and we have not been in the next closest 3 zip codes for that number and that was in our Highest number years not now .
and that came from experts not me ..Just saying and no I will not tell the numbers that were thrown around then but its much lower now than it was .
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Post by GS1 on Sept 12, 2014 17:33:47 GMT -5
I was told the fact that I lived here did not give me any advantage to estimating our deer herd that residents tend to under estimate their herds because they don't have good luck hunting them many times. When less experienced hunters do not see deer, the first thing they claim is that numbers are down....Fact. Being a resident of a very small portion of Indiana gives you no more of an idea what the statewide herd numbers are than the people that use proven statistics to estimate the herd....Fact. I said Fact....no reason to argue.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 18:09:04 GMT -5
I'll bet we had a million plus deer in the mid to late 90s.
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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 12, 2014 18:22:20 GMT -5
I'll bet we had a million plus deer in the mid to late 90s. If I was a betting man I would take that bet... but neither one of us could collect as there is no way of proving one way or another... |
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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 12, 2014 18:28:22 GMT -5
That same publication did another list ranking best overall deer states. Indiana came out #4. Would have been higher but lost points due to high cost of purchasing land and high cost of leasing land. Also did not score well in estimated hunters per square mile (between 7 and 8). Indiana's B&C and P&Y entries per hunter and availability of over the counter, cheap NR tags are what really push us way up the lists. That's just it... No one knows how many deer hunters there are in Indiana.. |
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Sept 12, 2014 19:11:42 GMT -5
Well, Indiana ranks something like # 46 in total public land.. hard to see how we could be #2 for a nonresident public land hunt.
I do know that in Montana this past May, I saw more deer in one day than I'd see in a month in the HNF.. and the public land I was hunting was a 1.5 million acre contiguous chunk. Surrounded by millions of more acres of public land.
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Post by shouldernuke on Sept 12, 2014 20:07:59 GMT -5
I'll bet we had a million plus deer in the mid to late 90s. I would take that bet ....Since you would be at least a couple hundred k heavy according to at least one guy that gets paid to do the guessing here ...LOL |
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Post by shouldernuke on Sept 12, 2014 20:26:35 GMT -5
I was told the fact that I lived here did not give me any advantage to estimating our deer herd that residents tend to under estimate their herds because they don't have good luck hunting them many times. When less experienced hunters do not see deer, the first thing they claim is that numbers are down....Fact. Being a resident of a very small portion of Indiana gives you no more of an idea what the statewide herd numbers are than the people that use proven statistics to estimate the herd....Fact. I said Fact....no reason to argue. Another real life "FACT" some writer who does not live in the state he/she is writing about just pulls an number out his rump with no biologist credentials other than writer /hunter has even less idea how many deer are in that state . I asked the writer in his blog on realtree "same guy"if he had spoken to our biologist his answer was "NO".. credibility gone totally at that point no matter his numbers . I would take the estimates of long time hunters who hunt more than just one or two areas over that of some writer .LOL FYI I hunted 4 counties last year . I hope you don't think me a young or inexperienced hunter old buddy . |
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Post by firstwd on Sept 12, 2014 21:35:16 GMT -5
The highest I've ever heard our deer numbers guessed by those that should was around 650k. The biggest issue with the criteria used to compile this list is the sheer amount of holes that are in his data. The DNR has a total number of license sales, but that does not give hunter numbers. They have a list of public hunting acres, but doesn't represent deer huntable land. They have a number of total deer checked in over a year, and the record books have a list of recorded bucks each year, but in no way represents what is accessible to hunters, let alone DIY out of state hunters. The saddest part is that some people will actually take that dribble to heart and show up here expecting to take their pick of several boomers cruising through every woodlot they see. Then again, look at all the people that go to Illinois, Kansas, and Nebraska every year. .....
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Post by GS1 on Sept 12, 2014 23:47:07 GMT -5
I would take the estimates of long time hunters who hunt more than just one or two areas over that of some writer .LOL FYI I hunted 4 counties last year . I hope you don't think me a young or inexperienced hunter old buddy . 4 counties, 6 counties or 8 counties doesn't give you an accurate number for a statewide deer herd. Do you believe any state has an accurate estimate of the herd numbers? How do they come up with that number? How accurate do you think the estimate is? I don't care if you've hunted 35 years or 5 years. I know guys that have done the same thing for that long and they're still not smart enough to pour pee out of a boot if the instructions were on the bottom. |
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Post by drs on Sept 13, 2014 9:30:26 GMT -5
First thing, I seriously doubt if Indiana has one million Deer herd size. It might seem this way in a few counties but it's more like 600,000 Deer state wide, which would be a guess at best.
The only way Biologists have to estimate the herd population is by doing a "Hunter Harvest Index Number". This is where a number of Hunters (which is a constant number) are surveyed as to their Deer Harvest. This can be based on a county by county basis or state wide or even by regions of the state, then taken into consideration to determine the herd size.
If the harvest numbers are up, then that would prompt Biologists to assume the population is up, based on the "constant" number of Hunters and their harvest.
If the harvest is lower and all variables such as weather conditions and browse availability, are considered, then Biologists would be prompt to assume the Deer population is lower, based on the same "constant" of Hunter participating numbers harvest.
With the above data Biologists can estimate the Deer population more accurately than just guessing by counting living Deer, in a given area. This data can also be plotted and graphically illustrated using the comparison of several years, based on the same number of participating Hunters and their harvests results.
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Post by shouldernuke on Sept 13, 2014 12:04:15 GMT -5
I would take the estimates of long time hunters who hunt more than just one or two areas over that of some writer .LOL FYI I hunted 4 counties last year . I hope you don't think me a young or inexperienced hunter old buddy . 4 counties, 6 counties or 8 counties doesn't give you an accurate number for a statewide deer herd. Do you believe any state has an accurate estimate of the herd numbers? How do they come up with that number? How accurate do you think the estimate is? I don't care if you've hunted 35 years or 5 years. I know guys that have done the same thing for that long and they're still not smart enough to pour pee out of a boot if the instructions were on the bottom. Some states estimates are likely more accurate than others...Like all things out there are they close in many areas or the whole state .Close enough many times to set up some sort of numbers driven strategy . Yes some hunters are dumb .But some are as savvy and smart as you or I . Thats just life most the people I meet have some degree of intellect ... Psychological fact proven/studied and written about in text over and over --People tend to think that they are much smarter than the next guy and I have witnessed this first hand many times as they argue how stupid some are they themselves show up in the lower ranks from time to time .so its all relative if you ask me yes Many hunters have a real good grasp of whats out there others not so much .Especially when fame or money comes into play things like backed proof or real results fly out the window . You seem to talk down to and tell everyone how your on a much of a higher hunting intellectual level than them or how they don't know how to hunt as well you or others alot just saying thats my observation .I would bet you have about the same understanding of the way things work and the herd in your area as most seasoned hunters all over this state .I may not know squat about where you hunt or your deer herd but I do where I hunt and the areas in between that I travel . I can tell when herds appear up ,same or down its not rocket science at all .But when a hunter looks at kill numbers over the years and actually speaks with the state Biologist yearly or more you get a damn good feel for where the herd lays state wide as a whole and locally where you hunt . |
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Post by GS1 on Sept 13, 2014 12:17:56 GMT -5
You seem to talk down to and tell everyone how your on a much of a higher hunting intellectual level than them or how they don't know how to hunt as well you or others alot just saying thats my observation . Isn't that just the pot calling the kettle black. That's an unusual assessment of my personality and one that I will take the time to review my post to make sure that I am not coming off that way intentionally. I'm just a regular Joe hunter who sees deer and shoots them. I couldn't tell you if there are 50 or 500 in the area I hunt. Much like anyone else from an entirely different part of the state couldn't either. |
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