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Post by span870 on Sept 14, 2014 21:26:33 GMT -5
Anyone ever use the little skeeter or gauge mate type tubes? I'm wanting to go from 20 to .410. It'll be just used for hunting, mainly rabbits. No skeet or sporting clays so not going to be firing 1000 of rounds. Really don't want to drop $600 for the briley full length but if that's the only option I will. Can't find a decent 870 .410 to save my life.
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Post by drs on Sept 15, 2014 4:07:41 GMT -5
Anyone ever use the little skeeter or gauge mate type tubes? I'm wanting to go from 20 to .410. It'll be just used for hunting, mainly rabbits. No skeet or sporting clays so not going to be firing 1000 of rounds. Really don't want to drop $600 for the briley full length but if that's the only option I will. Can't find a decent 870 .410 to save my life. I once had a Savage "Four Tenner" that I used in a 12 gauge S/S. Found it completely worthless, as the shot spread out way too much to be effective for shooting anything. You'd be better off just buying another shotgun in .410 or purchase the full length .410 tube; or use light 7/8 oz. 20 gauge loads in your present 20 gauge. Found this on the internet 870 Remington .410. www.gunsinternational.com/REMINGTON-870-EXPRESS-410.cfm?gun_id=100451334
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Post by steve46511 on Sept 15, 2014 6:30:42 GMT -5
I've not used any of the small bore tubes so I am no help there, but I have shot both the 28ga and 410 bore in 1100s and Wingmasters off and on for decades with one particular decade that was ALL I shot. FOR ME, anything other than mod or Full in the 410 was worthless for a hunting gun, especially for quail and doves. The modified Wingmaster I bought new in the mahogany stocked Wingmaster 28 gauge around 1969 being one of the ugliest Wingmasters Ive ever shot visibly but it was without a doubt my "go to" bird and rabbit gun for those 10 years. It's sitting in my buddies safe now (he wont sell it back to me, lol)as it has some 20 years but I still shoot it some. The 28ga S prefix, silver lifter mahogany stocked 28ga Wingmaster is the lightest weight (mass) of any I have ever shot and the light butt of this version leaves it a bit "barrel heavy" making it swing great for me and the friend that now has it. The 1100, modified 410 that sits beside it was also mine and while the 410 will roll em, I disliked anything but the 3 inch 11/16 oz loads for hunting and with such a small difference between the 410 11/16 and the 3/4 oz shot charges of the 28ga being SO small (and you CAN actually load the 28 in the 11/16 charge if desired) and the fact that the 28ga is somewhat a faster load, I much prefer it. Years back, standard AA factory 28s and Remington 28ga field loads were 1300 fps but I see most the current loads are 1200 but our handloads were always matching the 1300 fps speeds. Always liked those late 60s and early 70s Wingmasters the best and if and when I buy one (Ive had literally dozens)if it is not an S prefix with a silver lifter.......I don't buy it. There is VERY few, but there is an occastional T prefix (I assume readers realize I'm talking about prefix on the serial number) with silver lifters too BUT there are BOTH mahogany stocked and walnut stocked versions in the S prefix. The mahogany stocked 28 gauge is only around a 1/4 lb lighter but***for me*** this is the one that swings the best but I'd take either. Prices on these earlier Wingmaster small bores are NUTS. I think I paid 165 dollars for the one in my friend's safe, new. Other than the gun weight of a 20, if you handload, the 3/4 oz 28ga load is pretty simple to duplicate in a 20 gauge target hull. 410s are fun and pretty neat to just look at with that skinny dang barrel but I had some bad experiences with lost game using the 1/2oz 2 1/2 inch 410 shells but WOULD use such in 6 shot for CLOSE rabbits. For fast moving birds at rapidly varying distances......give me the 3/4 oz 1300 fps load in a 28ga. I've broken 25 straight with such on the skeet range out of that 28ga modified barrel as many times as I have with any gun or gauge with one particular sunday ending up with 98 out of a hundred when friends and I ran four rounds in a "fun contest". The winner shot free that day with the losers splitting up the winner's shooting fees, which means about a buck and a half each. LOL. Had we been shooting for some REAL prize, I'd have probably dropped 20 percent of my birds. SO......while this is NOT what you asked about, I thought I would throw out what it is I have found that has worked best in the small bores and just saying you can duplicate a 28 ga load in your 20 gauge Wingmaster with it only being 1/16 oz heavier in shot charge than the 3 inch 410 (and it's a lot faster which is a plus if you happen to use it for birds. Ive never noticed much difference on rabbits). A small side note too on chokes. While I've heard it SAID and I've read it online too but never from a manufacturer, that the 28 and 410 "are patterned at 25 yards unlike the rest which are patterned at 40 yards". I can't say if that is accurate BUT......I can tell you that the 870 I HAVE USED in a modified 28ga is NO WAY near as "tight" as a modified 20 gauge 870 (again of those I've shot)with the exact same shot charge. I verified this ON PAPER comparing THIS 28ga 870 (and we shot the 1100 410 too) to our 20 gauge guns. We paper patterned my friends 410 SKEET guns, choked "skeet" and it was nothing but HORRIBLE much past 20 yards so if you see one and get a chance to pattern it before buying, I WOULD!! Both these guns in "modified" pattern much more open than the 20 gauge guns in modified. 30 yards is about "it" for anything with them with 20-25 yards being about perfect. God Bless
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Post by stevein on Sept 15, 2014 9:15:06 GMT -5
I don't think you can use the adapters in a pump or auto, only break opens. Look at a used Stevens 67 in .410 or the Mossberg. It will be lighter than your 20/.410.
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Post by esshup on Sept 15, 2014 12:29:43 GMT -5
Ditto what stevein said. Also, there's too much of a jump bore size between 28 ga and .410 for those short tubes to work effectively. You're better off going with a different gun. The tube sets only work with a break action gun, like an O/U. www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=440398123
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Post by sakorifle on Sept 15, 2014 16:06:27 GMT -5
greetings i use an old el chimbo 3 inch side by side hammer 410, i have killed most things with it except a goose. it shoots real well. other inexpensive gun we started my nephew's on was a yilditz they shot very well with that and used it to good effect on ducks, they also won a clay shoot with it, they were fourteen and won the under twenty ones, against twenty and twelve bores, it was an amazing day for them. brother and i were very proud uncles. get a good one feed it good shells and it is surprising what a 410 will do. i like the others think a reduction tube could be a very disappointing option regards billy
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Post by span870 on Sept 15, 2014 16:24:46 GMT -5
I have a red label 20 that I was going to try using the tubes in. I didn't know if the jump was too much though to go from 20 to 410. My original idea was a 870 .410 but I can't find one near me that I could go look at. I have a problem buying a used one online because you never know if you can trust the seller. The gun is just going to be used for rabbits. I have a red label .410 too but really don't want to be dragging that through the thickets. The 20 to me I'd just to much lead flying at a bunny. I'm going to use my .22 some but really have my heart set on a .410. That or I'll just get the 20 full length tubed.
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Post by drs on Sept 16, 2014 4:23:47 GMT -5
I have a red label 20 that I was going to try using the tubes in. I didn't know if the jump was too much though to go from 20 to 410. My original idea was a 870 .410 but I can't find one near me that I could go look at. I have a problem buying a used one online because you never know if you can trust the seller. The gun is just going to be used for rabbits. I have a red label .410 too but really don't want to be dragging that through the thickets. The 20 to me I'd just to much lead flying at a bunny. I'm going to use my .22 some but really have my heart set on a .410. That or I'll just get the 20 full length tubed. I've have shot many Rabbits & Squirrels + a few Quail using a .410-3" shell using #5 or 7.5 shot. However, I've also bagged several using my 20 gauge with 1 oz shot loads, and found them not excessive loads at all for the 20. A good compromise would be a 28 gauge with it's 3/4 oz load, which is better than any .410 11/16 oz load for hunting Rabbits. I once had a Remington Model 1100 in 28 gauge and had a Poly Choke installed on it, and it was a good small game shotgun. Light weight and very little recoil. If your in the market for another shotgun you might consider the 28 gauge.
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Post by span870 on Sept 16, 2014 18:32:23 GMT -5
I have a red label 20 that I was going to try using the tubes in. I didn't know if the jump was too much though to go from 20 to 410. My original idea was a 870 .410 but I can't find one near me that I could go look at. I have a problem buying a used one online because you never know if you can trust the seller. The gun is just going to be used for rabbits. I have a red label .410 too but really don't want to be dragging that through the thickets. The 20 to me I'd just to much lead flying at a bunny. I'm going to use my .22 some but really have my heart set on a .410. That or I'll just get the 20 full length tubed. I've have shot many Rabbits & Squirrels + a few Quail using a .410-3" shell using #5 or 7.5 shot. However, I've also bagged several using my 20 gauge with 1 oz shot loads, and found them not excessive loads at all for the 20. A good compromise would be a 28 gauge with it's 3/4 oz load, which is better than any .410 11/16 oz load for hunting Rabbits. I once had a Remington Model 1100 in 28 gauge and had a Poly Choke installed on it, and it was a good small game shotgun. Light weight and very little recoil. If your in the market for another shotgun you might consider the 28 gauge. I thought about the 28 but just stuck on the .410. I think it falls on nostalgia. The old man instilled his love for it on me. Taught me to shoot his over and under at skeet. Always told me don't matter if its a 10 or .410, ya hit it, it breaks. I won't be shooting any farther than 20 yards with it and any that get a load and don't die right away the dogs will get. I've used the 20 quite a bit as well as the 16 and I'm just finding even aiming at the nose I'm putting way too many bb's in em. Course I realize its probably just an excuse to buy another gun. The 28 is nice and light but I can find .22 easier than 28 shells. The 16 I had was a sweet gun and still kick myself for selling it. Ithaca 37 featherlight. Probably 95%. Had the hard to find longer forearm. Not the honeycomb like the model 12. Anyway let that one go for $150. Yeah to know then what I know now. We had a nice collection of model 12's at one time that for the life of me can't remember why we got rid of. Bought two, a 20 and a 16. Matching numbers from a yard sale. Say 95-98%. Played $400. For both. Almost felt bad about that steal. Almost. Anyway I'm on a tangent here. I'll probably just go with the 870 and be done. Although tubeing the 20 and getting a .410 and a 28 might not be to terrible idea.
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Post by drs on Sept 17, 2014 4:33:38 GMT -5
I've have shot many Rabbits & Squirrels + a few Quail using a .410-3" shell using #5 or 7.5 shot. However, I've also bagged several using my 20 gauge with 1 oz shot loads, and found them not excessive loads at all for the 20. A good compromise would be a 28 gauge with it's 3/4 oz load, which is better than any .410 11/16 oz load for hunting Rabbits. I once had a Remington Model 1100 in 28 gauge and had a Poly Choke installed on it, and it was a good small game shotgun. Light weight and very little recoil. If your in the market for another shotgun you might consider the 28 gauge. I thought about the 28 but just stuck on the .410. I think it falls on nostalgia. The old man instilled his love for it on me. Taught me to shoot his over and under at skeet. Always told me don't matter if its a 10 or .410, ya hit it, it breaks. I won't be shooting any farther than 20 yards with it and any that get a load and don't die right away the dogs will get. I've used the 20 quite a bit as well as the 16 and I'm just finding even aiming at the nose I'm putting way too many bb's in em. Course I realize its probably just an excuse to buy another gun. The 28 is nice and light but I can find .22 easier than 28 shells. The 16 I had was a sweet gun and still kick myself for selling it. Ithaca 37 featherlight. Probably 95%. Had the hard to find longer forearm. Not the honeycomb like the model 12. Anyway let that one go for $150. Yeah to know then what I know now. We had a nice collection of model 12's at one time that for the life of me can't remember why we got rid of. Bought two, a 20 and a 16. Matching numbers from a yard sale. Say 95-98%. Played $400. For both. Almost felt bad about that steal. Almost. Anyway I'm on a tangent here. I'll probably just go with the 870 and be done. Although tubeing the 20 and getting a .410 and a 28 might not be to terrible idea. I understand the nostalgia of owning a certain gun or even caliber or gauge. I still hunt with my own .410 S/S on occasion. The only thing that I have against the .410 is that it seems like the .410-3" ammunition is NOT as good as the ones the use to load in cardboard cases. For one thing the newer .410-3" cases are slightly shorter than the older cardboard shells and hold a full 3/4 oz of shot, and are a full 3" long. When Remington came-out with their "Power-Piston" wad/shot protector for the .410-3" the shell was an improvement over the older shells due to their power-piston, which protected the shot. Now their shot load weight (All Brands of .410 ammo) only have 11/16 oz of shot and the power-piston, holding 3/4 oz load is no longer available, if you happen to reload, or available in factory loads. I once had a Lee Loader for the .410 and reloaded my game loads with #5 nickle plated shot, and used Remington's 3" 3/4 oz. power-piston wad. This was a very effective load for hunting small game out to 30 yards. I believe the 28 gauge would offer similar performance as my .410-3" reloads.
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Post by span870 on Sept 17, 2014 5:40:17 GMT -5
Ahh but yes there is a progressive .410 loader in the barn that would just have to be pulled out along with about 2000 AA hulls. I think I have in the neighborhood of 20 boxes the ol man had loaded up before he left us. Those should last me what the next 20 years?
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Post by drs on Sept 17, 2014 7:01:51 GMT -5
Ahh but yes there is a progressive .410 loader in the barn that would just have to be pulled out along with about 2000 AA hulls. I think I have in the neighborhood of 20 boxes the ol man had loaded up before he left us. Those should last me what the next 20 years? Sounds great! Just find some plastic shot wads, like Remington once sold, holding a full 3/4 oz of shot, and you're in Business!
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Post by span870 on Sept 17, 2014 10:56:22 GMT -5
Bags and bags of em. He bought in bulk.
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Post by drs on Sept 17, 2014 11:24:55 GMT -5
Bags and bags of em. He bought in bulk. GREAT!!!!.......Good for him!! Last time I saw those 3/4 oz wads was back in the early 1980's . NOW, all you can find is those worthless 1/2 oz plastic shot wads.
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Post by span870 on Sept 17, 2014 15:11:25 GMT -5
Let me look what I have. I should have plenty if you want a bag of them. Let me know if you are interested.
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Post by drs on Sept 18, 2014 4:34:32 GMT -5
Let me look what I have. I should have plenty if you want a bag of them. Let me know if you are interested. Thanks, but I haven't reloaded my .410 shells for several years, I sold my Lee Loader on Auction Arms around 2005. Got a good price for it too. Don't know why they discontinued producing those 3" plastic shot wads holding a full 3/4 oz of shot. Those 1/2 oz shot wads are totally useless.
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