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Post by kickinchicken on Nov 17, 2014 19:17:05 GMT -5
Looking to buy my first muzzleloader this year. What do you shoot or have you shot? Would like to stay around $400 or less, but if it's one of those you get what you pay for, may look to spend the extra $$.
Some family members own CVA optima and one likes really well the other likes capability of switching barrels but not happy with the weight.
Just like to get any feedback to take into consideration. Probably look to purchase end of Dec - Jan timeframe.
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Post by trapperdave on Nov 17, 2014 19:52:10 GMT -5
ive killed a lot of deer with my cva magnum hunter inline. cost 99 new and has a fifty dollar scope.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 20:11:01 GMT -5
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Post by dbd870 on Nov 18, 2014 4:22:06 GMT -5
My Encores are the favorite of what I own or have shot, not a cheap option though
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Post by drs on Nov 18, 2014 5:49:32 GMT -5
You can't go wrong with Thompson/Center M/Ls.
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Post by GS1 on Nov 18, 2014 7:31:33 GMT -5
If it were me, I would save up and buy something smokeless. The ease of cleaning alone is enough to make up the difference.
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Post by drs on Nov 18, 2014 7:39:23 GMT -5
If it were me, I would save up and buy something smokeless. The ease of cleaning alone is enough to make up the difference. Do they still make M/Ls that use smokeless powder?? I thought a Gun writer had one blow-up on him.  |
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Post by GS1 on Nov 18, 2014 7:42:33 GMT -5
If it were me, I would save up and buy something smokeless. The ease of cleaning alone is enough to make up the difference. Do they still make M/Ls that use smokeless powder?? I thought a Gun writer had one blow-up on him. Yes they do. I doubt there is any gun that if you load your own ammo incorrectly, you can't blow up. |
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Post by esshup on Nov 18, 2014 7:43:55 GMT -5
Savage isn't making them anymore. If you saw a picture of the one that blew up, you'd have to wonder why there were traces of copper in the bore right where the split start. If the bullet was encased in a sabot, how did it get in contact with the bore. Plus if you saw what the gun looked like, and that the writer came away with absolutely no injuries, the piece of the puzzle would make you go Hmmmmm?  ? I've got a couple fo them and wouldn't consider going more traditional. |
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Post by GS1 on Nov 18, 2014 7:59:01 GMT -5
Savage isn't making them anymore. If you saw a picture of the one that blew up, you'd have to wonder why there were traces of copper in the bore right where the split start. If the bullet was encased in a sabot, how did it get in contact with the bore. Plus if you saw what the gun looked like, and that the writer came away with absolutely no injuries, the piece of the puzzle would make you go Hmmmmm? ? I've got a couple of them and wouldn't consider going more traditional. Did they quit making them completely now? Last I heard (spring before last I believe) they were going to make them twice a year and dealers had to place a complete order before a certain time. |
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 18, 2014 8:39:35 GMT -5
Savage isn't making them anymore. If you saw a picture of the one that blew up, you'd have to wonder why there were traces of copper in the bore right where the split start. If the bullet was encased in a sabot, how did it get in contact with the bore. Plus if you saw what the gun looked like, and that the writer came away with absolutely no injuries, the piece of the puzzle would make you go Hmmmmm? ? I've got a couple of them and wouldn't consider going more traditional. Did they quit making them completely now? Last I heard (spring before last I believe) they were going to make them twice a year and dealers had to place a complete order before a certain time. |
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Post by onebentarrow on Nov 18, 2014 8:57:06 GMT -5
Every savage/sml muzzelloader that has blown up has been traced to human mistake [double powder, double bullet, double loading. Leaving ramrod in barrel) the are great guns but YOU have to be on your toes when shooting them.a ten grane too much powder by weight.not volume can be disastrous. I have one and it will shoot to 250 yds holding dead on.
If you are interested in smokeless mzs go to dougs message board and read there. I go every. Day and have learned termendous amounts. They have guys building custom guns that are shooting 2-3 in groups at 500 yds
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Post by schoolmaster on Nov 18, 2014 9:01:29 GMT -5
Go to the savage smokeless muzzleloading site. Doug's message board. There is a guy on there that takes a 45/70 H&R rifle and converts it to a smokeless muzzleloader. Probably the cheapest way to go. Check it out.
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Post by esshup on Nov 18, 2014 9:49:49 GMT -5
 Groups were shot last Friday in the wind. Left group was at 200 yds, right group was at 300 yds. That's with a rebarreled Savage in .45 caliber. Since Savage was sold last year to ATK, the new owners dropped a few lines. The Savage ML and the Savage Striker were dropped, and any specific tooling was destroyed. They cannot be ordered anymore, not even thru the custom shop. I talked to the head of the custom shop at the NRA convention and that's what I was told. Just like reloading isn't for everyone, neither is muzzleloading. You have to pay attention to details, and some people are better at doing that than others. There's a picture floating around on the web of a guy who left his bore sighter in his CF rifle. That peeled the barrel open like a bannana. But getting back to the OP question, for that amount of $$ that you have, you're probably going to have to find one that is not smokeless powder (CF rifle powder) compatible. I went the Savage route because I didn't want to have to clean it after every shooting session, whether one shot or a day at the range. I'll verify POI before hunting season, and only clean it after season is over. I'll put a piece of electrical tape over the muzzle to keep any water/snow out, and it also is a good quick visual indicator that there is a charge in the gun. Do I "need" the long range capability of the gun? Nope. Longest kill with it is under 200 yds. in the past 12 years. But, I like the flat trajectory and not having to think about bullet drop for my shots. If I'm not picky about bullet placement, hold the x-hairs center of the deer, behind the shoulder and squeeze the trigger if the deer is within 250 yds. With it sighted dead on at 200 yds, the bullet doesn't rise more than 2.3" and at 250 yds it drops 4". With using a laser rangefinder and a steady rest, in light wind conditions and shooting at a calm deer, I have no qualms about making a 400 yd shot if the opportunity presented itself. |
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Post by ridgerunner on Dec 18, 2014 18:09:41 GMT -5
CVA Accura V2 .50 cal...best Muzzle loader built today IMO...I can clover leaf shots at 150 yards no problem...most accurate gun I've ever owned...Unreal accuracy and Quality.
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Post by stevein on Dec 20, 2014 17:23:09 GMT -5
I have seen the pictures of many blown Savages and my thoughts are not how copper traces got there but why there are not more examples. When Savage first brought out this rifle the sabots would come apart in an overload and vent excess pressure. Since it was thought better performance could be achieved with better sabots they were developed. This takes away the one last failsafe in these rifles. I cannot see how a smokeless muzzle loader can be recommended as an entry level gun or as a practice at ANY level. Humans make mistakes and with smokeless powder in a muzzle loader the margin of error is just not there.
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Post by michaeladkins on Dec 20, 2014 19:10:58 GMT -5
I have only had the CVA optima. I like it. Not much to it, just keep it clean and it will do the job.
Good luck in your search. G you have buddies who have muzzle loaders, try theirs out first.
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Post by esshup on Dec 21, 2014 0:30:25 GMT -5
I have seen the pictures of many blown Savages and my thoughts are not how copper traces got there but why there are not more examples. When Savage first brought out this rifle the sabots would come apart in an overload and vent excess pressure. Since it was thought better performance could be achieved with better sabots they were developed. This takes away the one last failsafe in these rifles. I cannot see how a smokeless muzzle loader can be recommended as an entry level gun or as a practice at ANY level. Humans make mistakes and with smokeless powder in a muzzle loader the margin of error is just not there. I think it all depends on the person loading and shooting the gun. The same could be said for reloading metallic cartriges. There are people out there who don't believe in reading or following reloading manuals, or they believe that swapping components in shotgun shells when reloading won't make a difference in pressure. Those people shouldn't be reloading or probably shooting ANY type of muzzleloader, no matter what the powder. Why haven't more blown up? Because Savage did their homework and built a stout gun. There's been many instances where people were distracted and shot their ramrod out of their gun, along with the bullet and the gun hasn't blown up. I haven't heard of a single one that has blown up that was loaded properly. To eaches own I guess. If it wasn't for Savage making their ML I wouldn't be shooting a muzzleloader. Theirs is the first and only muzzleloader that I have bought. Don't forget that they can also use pyrodes, pellets, and any of the other powders that are used in muzzleloaders. |
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Post by onebentarrow on Dec 21, 2014 7:57:38 GMT -5
I have seen the pictures of many blown Savages and my thoughts are not how copper traces got there but why there are not more examples. When Savage first brought out this rifle the sabots would come apart in an overload and vent excess pressure. Since it was thought better performance could be achieved with better sabots they were developed. This takes away the one last failsafe in these rifles. I cannot see how a smokeless muzzle loader can be recommended as an entry level gun or as a practice at ANY level. Humans make mistakes and with smokeless powder in a muzzle loader the margin of error is just not there. |
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Post by onebentarrow on Dec 21, 2014 8:25:56 GMT -5
I have seen the pictures of many blown Savages and my thoughts are not how copper traces got there but why there are not more examples. When Savage first brought out this rifle the sabots would come apart in an overload and vent excess pressure. Since it was thought better performance could be achieved with better sabots they were developed. This takes away the one last failsafe in these rifles. I cannot see how a smokeless muzzle loader can be recommended as an entry level gun or as a practice at ANY level. Humans make mistakes and with smokeless powder in a muzzle loader the margin of error is just not there. I shoot a savage The sabot has never been a failsafe. As stated before ALL blowups have been leaked to human mistake. The sabots (even tho improved) will still come apart and cause poor patterns but an owner must be vigilant and weigh the powder by Weight Not Volume. If u can not or are not kind of odc on origination they probably are not for u, but if u like shooting, the combinations of powders,bullets, sabots, primers and such is endless and u can find a load for the kids to shoot that will do the job to 150 yards with little recoil or a stout load that can get it dune at 400 yds. One of the things I like is each round is normally less cost than any other firearm of Simler capability and when at the range u can not shoot 40$ worth of Amo in 5 min. As with any fire arm there are Dos and donts. I love mine and after hunting 20 plus years with a tc hockens and patched round ball I will not go back unless they are made ileagle for muzz season. The best shot I made with one was 265 yds with a BOOK LOAD. Pass threw went 30 yrds. I have had many deer hit the dirt on impact also. Like I said before if you can do your part they cannot be beat but if u cannot they are not for you |
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