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Post by piercings4u on Nov 23, 2014 20:29:53 GMT -5
Was this shot pistol or rifle? There are several additional possible issues if it was a pistol, and lots more information needed. This was my cva optima rifle
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Post by omegahunter on Nov 23, 2014 20:31:19 GMT -5
Was this shot pistol or rifle? There are several additional possible issues if it was a pistol, and lots more information needed. This was my cva optima rifle Optima will be fine to dry fire.
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Post by piercings4u on Nov 23, 2014 20:32:03 GMT -5
How are you sighted? I, myself, use a cleanbore zero. When zeroing, I shoot a single shot, completely clean the bore as though I'm done for the year, adjust my scope, then shoot again. I repeat the process until I am zeroed. My muzzleloader shoots way to the right on a fouled bore, and I definitely don't want to sight in on a fouled bore. Otherwise I'd have to shoot it every single day. When i sight in i start with a clean bore..i just keep shooting until im satisfied ...i never have cleaned the bore in between shots while sighting in..and i use open sights..no scope
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Post by M4Madness on Nov 23, 2014 20:45:17 GMT -5
When i sight in i start with a clean bore..i just keep shooting until im satisfied ...i never have cleaned the bore in between shots while sighting in..and i use open sights..no scope I'm sure that it's dependent on your particular muzzleloader. Mine shoots worse with each shot after the first, so I could never sight it in that manner. Since I hunt with a clean bore, I sight-in with one as well. I'd say that you ought to scrub your bore clean, then fire a round on the range to see what's going on. It could be that it is not sighted for a cleanbore shot, or it could simply be that the heat of the moment just got to you (which happens to us all at one time or another).
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Post by firstwd on Nov 23, 2014 21:23:36 GMT -5
Both eyes open or just the one?
Are you shooting on the shoulder of your dominant eye?
With open sights, both eyes open, and possibly shooting with the off eye, it would be very easy for the dominant eye to take over the sight picture.
My eye dominance is almost nonexistent and I have to close one eye to shoot. It does make it very easy for me to shoot right or left handed, but it forces me to keep one eye closed completely through the entire process or I find myself pulling my head or missing by several feet one way or the other. I have been courtroom confident that I shot the lead bird in a string of geese and watched the 4th bird crumple.
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Post by omegahunter on Nov 24, 2014 8:09:41 GMT -5
When i sight in i start with a clean bore..i just keep shooting until im satisfied ...i never have cleaned the bore in between shots while sighting in..and i use open sights..no scope I'm sure that it's dependent on your particular muzzleloader. Mine shoots worse with each shot after the first, so I could never sight it in that manner. Since I hunt with a clean bore, I sight-in with one as well. I'd say that you ought to scrub your bore clean, then fire a round on the range to see what's going on. Good muzzleloader advice right there. Muzzleloaders are like all other rifles and have their individual preferences of powder, bullet, ... MOST get the best accuracy from a clean bore, moderate powder charge, and heavier bullet. Others shoot better after a fouling shot (but not one of mine ever have) or with a lighter bullet. As with most all other rifles, you could achieve "hunting" accuracy with a number of different combinations.
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Post by piercings4u on Nov 25, 2014 18:15:46 GMT -5
FYI...ill be taking the ml out after sunday to see whats up with it...ill report my findings...stay tuned....
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Post by esshup on Nov 26, 2014 12:47:10 GMT -5
When you take it to the range, shooting from bags or a rest is a test for the gun to see if it's shooting to point of aim, to see if the gun likes that powder/bullet combination and to a lesser extent a test of the shooter to see if they are holding and squeezing consistently. Shooting off of the bench, in a position that you would when hunting is more of a test of the shooter than the gun, and should be done once the optimum powder/bullet combo is determined.
After you verify the POI of the gun from the bench, take 3 or better yet 5 shots like you shot at the deer. Either standing, resting just the gun against a tree or the forend of the gun on a shooting stick. That will tell you the group size of the shooter vs. the gun, and will show you if your shooting technique is different in different shooting positions. When I shot my deer with my ML this year, I saw the bullet impact the ground and throw up leaves after it went through the deer (in the scope). That's what follow thru is. Keeping the sights on the point of aim after the shot.
Tell us what the group size was from the bench vs. you shooting in the same position like you used to shoot at the doe. I think it'd be interesting to a lot of people here, myself included.
I'll shoot from a bench to verify that the gun likes the load, and the bullet impacts the same place as where it was aimed. Then I'll shoot in different positions, like I would during hunting. When shooting a scoped rifle, shooting prone puts your head closer to the scope than shooting standing, and if you don't practice shooting that way, it's a good way to get cut by the scope. I found myself flinching (more correctly, compensating for recoil and pushing my shoulder forward, causing me to shoot low) when shooting in the standing position. Concentrating on slowly squeezing the trigger and having someone else load the gun for me when practicing helped me to overcome that.
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Post by stevein on Nov 26, 2014 19:28:06 GMT -5
What essup said is accurate. Also a heavy trigger is easy to shoot at the bench when you are all down tight and supported.With my traditional rifles shooting on a rest will cause about 3" high at 50 yards.
To really get an idea about deflection take a couple of old arrows with field points and shoot them into brush.
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Post by piercings4u on Nov 26, 2014 22:09:09 GMT -5
When you take it to the range, shooting from bags or a rest is a test for the gun to see if it's shooting to point of aim, to see if the gun likes that powder/bullet combination and to a lesser extent a test of the shooter to see if they are holding and squeezing consistently. Shooting off of the bench, in a position that you would when hunting is more of a test of the shooter than the gun, and should be done once the optimum powder/bullet combo is determined. After you verify the POI of the gun from the bench, take 3 or better yet 5 shots like you shot at the deer. Either standing, resting just the gun against a tree or the forend of the gun on a shooting stick. That will tell you the group size of the shooter vs. the gun, and will show you if your shooting technique is different in different shooting positions. When I shot my deer with my ML this year, I saw the bullet impact the ground and throw up leaves after it went through the deer (in the scope). That's what follow thru is. Keeping the sights on the point of aim after the shot. Tell us what the group size was from the bench vs. you shooting in the same position like you used to shoot at the doe. I think it'd be interesting to a lot of people here, myself included. I'll shoot from a bench to verify that the gun likes the load, and the bullet impacts the same place as where it was aimed. Then I'll shoot in different positions, like I would during hunting. When shooting a scoped rifle, shooting prone puts your head closer to the scope than shooting standing, and if you don't practice shooting that way, it's a good way to get cut by the scope. I found myself flinching (more correctly, compensating for recoil and pushing my shoulder forward, causing me to shoot low) when shooting in the standing position. Concentrating on slowly squeezing the trigger and having someone else load the gun for me when practicing helped me to overcome that. Excellent advice ...ill read this again just before i do the shooting...thank you so much
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Post by dbd870 on Nov 27, 2014 7:29:36 GMT -5
I'd certainly take it back to the range. Are you getting a clear sight picture? A clear sight picture? Can you explain that for me... Make sure you don't have my problem; my guns now have more than 1 front sight.
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Post by piercings4u on Dec 2, 2014 13:34:03 GMT -5
Today ill be taking the ml out...ill report back my findings this evening...stay tuned
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Post by trapperdave on Dec 2, 2014 15:10:05 GMT -5
A clear sight picture? Can you explain that for me... Make sure you don't have my problem; my guns now have more than 1 front sight. just split the uprights
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Post by dbd870 on Dec 2, 2014 15:45:52 GMT -5
Make sure you don't have my problem; my guns now have more than 1 front sight. just split the uprights biggrin2
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Post by piercings4u on Dec 2, 2014 22:47:24 GMT -5
Ok here are my results...
30 yards...first shot was high and to the left 30 yards...second shot was high and to the left 30 yards...third shot was a delayed shot and hit the top edge of the paper target very high and to the right 30 yards...fourth shot was high and to the left
Adjusted rear sight down and to the right
30 yards...fifth shot a inch to the left of bullseye 30 yards ...sixth shot a inch to the left of bullseye 40 yards...seventh shot a inch to the right and two inches above bullseye 50 yards...eighth shot two inches below bullseye 30 yards...shot number nine was the same as shot five and six
My 30 yards shots were all made sitting in a chair and using a table in front of me as a rest..my 40 and 50 yard shots were made while standing..i did notice something while shooting and i dont know if ive always done it or not but it seems i shut my eyes right at the shot..like at the same time i pull the trigger..i dont shut them and then pull the trigger but i look down my sights and as soon as the gun goes off my eyes close..does anyone else do this? Could this be a problem with my accuracy? I think the gun is shooting pretty good now..my first shots were all bad until i adjusted my sights and then they all stayed grouped inside the circle..i still dont understand how i hit that doe in the face with a perfect broadside shot as she stood still but my gun was able to print on the target even though it was high and to the left..i really think its something i did wrong but i just don't know what it is..anyone have any input on these results...id like to figure this out..ill take any and all advice...
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Post by dbd870 on Dec 3, 2014 6:47:47 GMT -5
Could be combination of sights off and a follow through issue. Keep you head in place and your eyes on the sights. It is so tempting to lift you head so you can see what the results are. When I blow a shot with the bow 90% of the time it is because I drop my bow to watch the shot.
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Post by esshup on Dec 3, 2014 6:53:59 GMT -5
Do you practice with ear plugs and glasses on? How bad is the recoil?
Now, if you hunt from a standing position, try shooting at paper exactly the way you hunt and see how the gun and shooter group. Now you have a baseline on how well the gun shoots from a bench.
You might be closing your eyes from the recoil or the noise.
Like I said in my earlier post, when I shot the deer earlier this year, I watched the bullet throw leaves in teh air when it hit the ground on the other side of the deer, so that means that my eyes are open during the shot. Have a friend go to the range with you, and have them put the primer in the gun for you (or not put it in the gun). That will tell you if you are following through after the shot or jerking the gun around.
FWIW, if it was my gun, I'd do more testing to find a load that was more accurate. For me, a 2" group at 30 yds isn't accurate enough, iron sights or not.
Get yourself an accurate pellet gun and a pellet trap. Shoot lots of practice shots at home, it will help you become a better shooter without having to make trips to the range and it's cheap to shoot. No need to get a pellet gun that shoots 1,000+ fps, one that shoots 600 fps is more than enough for what you are going to use it for.
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Post by parson on Dec 3, 2014 7:11:15 GMT -5
Several years back, I had a similar shot at a doe that was coming across an open field. I was standing at the field's edge, concealed by a tree and some light brush.
I shot at less than 20 yards and the doe looks at me for a second, then sped off.
I looked for any sign of a hit and found absolutely nothing! So I conclude that the scope on my 870 must have somehow been knocked out of alignment. Walked back to the barn, set up a test target and was surprised to hit exactly where I aimed- with 2 shots.
Walking back to where I had been standing, I found a very small twig that was blown in two. It was apparently low enough that I failed to see it in my scope, but is was adequate to deflect a 12 ga. slug enough to miss a deer at a very short distance.
I never would have thought it possible, but I couldn't find any other reason for this miss.
Also, as someone else mentioned, follow through is very important with a muzzleloader. Just a slight delay in firing can make make for a big miss if any movement is made.
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Post by piercings4u on Dec 3, 2014 9:31:38 GMT -5
Several years back, I had a similar shot at a doe that was coming across an open field. I was standing at the field's edge, concealed by a tree and some light brush. I shot at less than 20 yards and the doe looks at me for a second, then sped off. I looked for any sign of a hit and found absolutely nothing! So I conclude that the scope on my 870 must have somehow been knocked out of alignment. Walked back to the barn, set up a test target and was surprised to hit exactly where I aimed- with 2 shots. Walking back to where I had been standing, I found a very small twig that was blown in two. It was apparently low enough that I failed to see it in my scope, but is was adequate to deflect a 12 ga. slug enough to miss a deer at a very short distance. I never would have thought it possible, but I couldn't find any other reason for this miss. Also, as someone else mentioned, follow through is very important with a muzzleloader. Just a slight delay in firing can make make for a big miss if any movement is made. The more i think of it the more im leading myself to believe that follow through is one of my problems..
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Post by stevein on Dec 3, 2014 9:33:01 GMT -5
Shooting is more than just lining up the sights and pulling the trigger. The shot does not stop when the trigger is pulled. You have to follow through by continuing to focus on the sights, the trigger squeeze, the target. When you feel recoil continue to concentrate on the sights until the push is over and you come back forward you can then relax. I think you have a flinch that comes and goes based on the eye closing. Flinching can be caused by a lot of factors like a hard recoiling gun, pressure to make a good shot, lack of confidence in your ability to make the shot, poor fitting gun and on... How does your gun fit you in hunting clothes? Do your sights line up natural or do you have to work to get your sight picture? When I made my flintlock I made it about an inch and a quarter shorter than I would build for summer shooting to allow for heavy coats during deer season. I can still shoot it fine in a tee shirt though. One thing I know for sure is it is much easier to develop a flinch than to cure it. Shooting with record keeping to track progress will help. Like Essup said a good pellet rifle can really help, low noise and recoil Also his being able to see impact after shooting the deer is great follow through. A lot of stuff for a post.
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