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Post by jjas on Dec 15, 2014 18:23:34 GMT -5
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Post by M4Madness on Dec 15, 2014 18:42:54 GMT -5
I've said for quite a while that hunting shows are ruining hunting. That's why I refuse to watch them anymore.
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Post by majyang on Dec 15, 2014 18:43:47 GMT -5
Now if only we could keep those kinds of folks to just strictly private lease lands I'd be good with that. I mean farmers and land owners make a little coin, the "hunter" gets a turn at batting, public land hunters don't have to contend with one more itchy finger in the field AND the deers on and around that property will more than likely survive anyways. Kidding... For me hunting is and always will be just a sport. I share what I know with just about anyone who cares to listen and learn. The missing element with the kinds of folks this article is talking about is, training. I do, do my part and if you do too, then i believe our sport will do as all sports do, weed out the ones that are following a fad. My only request is for all to stay civil and safe when playing, regardless if you'really a pro or a nob.
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Post by shouldernuke on Dec 15, 2014 19:46:09 GMT -5
This has also led to something the author and others have not touched on as well .
I was at a rather large gathering of deer hunters and their families a few months ago .The conversation came around to TV show hunters and false expectations of the age and size of the deer they were killing in a circle of hunters. Also conversation surrounded the fact that many leases up this way "North of INDY" on the best properties here in IL, IA and the like are up to $2000 up to $5000 a hunter per season .Well a couple of them said in that conversation that they simply stopped leasing and beating down doors to ask permission and walked away with thier rather tanned, bling covered "large"golden haired wives.
That did not surprise anyone in that circle of hunters .But I knew they yearly killed at least one 150 plus buck a year each and did a bit of hunting out of state as well .Well I later suffled em away over a drink and asked how they did last year and saw their bucks they were as impressive as ever . I asked them how if they did not lease or knock on doors they hunted and got such great land and deer .I figured they bought exclusive property somewhere.
They simply told the strait truth and I was shocked but not surprised when I thought it out .I asked do you hunt with out of state outfitters ?? They said they did for about 5 years but it was mostly aside from two of their huntsa waste of time and money ...Money for these guys really was not a problem . They told me that TV hunters and paying leases was what was killing deer hunting around them and would not lease anymore .
They said they started going to larger deer enclosures out of state to hunt and kill the deer that they wanted .And it freed em up to hunt other game in the fall like water foul and birds.They were estatic because the wives were OK with the money they spent because of the extra time at home with them through the week and less wasted days in the summers on deer hunting scouting and projects ..They said they took them on nice vacations now in the fall.
They stated they had far less time involved hunting rather than whole seasons. But the hunts were just like the ones out of the Fence even the rutting activity was the same only better {they said better bucks chasing}..They said they had No more wasted money with leases and outfits involved that were marginal at best .They meant "they had shooters to kill" .Rather than bad hunts with no shooters on leases and outfitted hunts they had and been on.
They would take off a week or two in the Rut phase and simply hunt Deer Preserves paying $2500 to $3500 each and the hunts were just like being in any woods here .With exception of the Fence that they said they only saw it when they went through the gate .OK whatever I was not with them.. They said they had no " Poachers or trespassers or dogs to deal with ".
..One other thing they said stuck out in my mind later they eluded to . They said "the TV hunters do it all the time and they kill a dozen or more big bucks a year and no one looks down on them they are hunting heros ,so if they do it so can we" ..
I walked away shaking my head when we were done talking .I was even a bit disgusted .But I later set back and thought about what they did and said and it made perfect sense .They rather than waste time, money and get Grey hair worrying about the land they hunted locally and the deer on it ,let others do that part and still killed the same deer that were years before . According to them with no worries nothing but excitement and fun got exactly what they wanted and then some like free time ,No wasted money ,a happy wife "they both were high maintenance ladies anyway " and a great hunting experience every time according to "them" . They opted out of the big deer hunting pressure and all the headaches that went with it and still hunted the deer that they wanted to.
This is another thing IMHO that has been over looked by most as a side effect of TV hunting and leasing .I suspect there is far more of this happening every year than many want to admit to doing .But then again I am a bit jaded and cynical when it comes to the hunting industry and hunters of today with their motives ..I mean its been a few years since my last 150 inch buck fell ..I thought they had all left the state over the last 5 years...LOL
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Post by duff on Dec 15, 2014 21:10:00 GMT -5
Yea, it certainly isn't a new thing. All those fenced preserves or kill pens or whatever people want to call them were not built because there was no demand for them. The biggest problem with them is it got insane with small pens and doped animals. I think if those guys could've regulated themselves to minimum pen size and a sliver of ethics they would've been no problem with them. But like most things it wasn't good enough to hunt a controlled location but had to garuntee min size in a min amount of effort.
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Post by beermanbrian on Dec 16, 2014 13:52:03 GMT -5
I think we all know those hunters that have the latest and greatest gear because they see it on tv. There are only 2 shows I watch anymore because I believe they are true hunters like they rest of us only with a show. Must of the others I call sitters because they show up at a place where all the work has been done for them all the while peddling a bunch of expensive junk. I was hoping a lot of it was just a fad but it seems to be getting worse.
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Post by swilk on Dec 16, 2014 14:00:27 GMT -5
I think the Real Housewives of Atlanta is one the most ridiculous shows to ever air on television .... but the cool thing is my remote has this button that lets me chose the channel I watch.
I assume most remotes have the same feature ....
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 16, 2014 14:05:51 GMT -5
I think the Real Housewives of Atlanta is one the most ridiculous shows to ever air on television .... but the cool thing is my remote has this button that lets me chose the channel I watch. I assume most remotes have the same feature .... AMEN....sorry but outfitters and canned hunts is the least of my concerns...it's the illegal hunting activities that go untold or corrected inside our ranks that has my attention.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 14:35:22 GMT -5
There are a handful of excellent hunting shows. 90% of it is cheap deer porn.
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Post by swilk on Dec 16, 2014 14:37:24 GMT -5
And we all know how men just hate porn ....
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Post by ridgerunner on Dec 16, 2014 14:58:35 GMT -5
I'd like to invite some of those Big Time Celebrity hunters out to my farm where you may hunt 70 days straight for that ONE shot opportunity..."Hunting the Real World"...I'm real suspicious of the TV shows and their methods...I'm not convinced it's 100% free ranging deer, or 100% fair chase. Many of the shows are a big turn off to me...it's not real world hunting.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 15:03:37 GMT -5
Meat Eater and a few others are real world and worthy fare. The majority are trash. But, as Swilk alluded, there is a market for it. At least 3 hunting networks attest to that.
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Post by span870 on Dec 16, 2014 16:41:11 GMT -5
I'd like to invite some of those Big Time Celebrity hunters out to my farm where you may hunt 70 days straight for that ONE shot opportunity..."Hunting the Real World"...I'm real suspicious of the TV shows and their methods...I'm not convinced it's 100% free ranging deer, or 100% fair chase. Many of the shows are a big turn off to me...it's not real world hunting. They wouldn't kill one because they wouldn't hunt it. How is where they hunt compared to everyone else not real world. Trust me most of the BIG name hunters don't hunt behind fences. I have hunted next to Don and Kandy Kisky's and Lee and Tiffany's farms in Iowa. There are zero fences around their properties and from folks that know them worked for every acre they own. Before Don became who he is in the hunting industry he was and still is a huge grain farmer. Their property is intensely managed for producing monster deer. How many are willing to pass up 150-160 inch deer. I don't know of a single "pro" hunter that was handed what they have. The statements that get thrown around about paying an outfitter to kill a deer, I'm assuming, are spoken from guys that have never been to an outfitter. Sure most hunt on large tracts of land that will allow you to shoot any deer but if you are looking for a trophy it ain't a walk in the park. I hunted for 5 straight years and covered most of a 60,000 acre ranch before I killed my mule deer. Man I would have saved a bunch of money if I hunted with an outfitter that would have tied my deer to a tree too. This guy is also an outfitter that "pro's" use. Most of those guy book until they kill a deer. Lee hunted for three weeks until he killed his deer several years back. If you han the funds to buy and control huge tracts of land like they do and consistently killed huge deer would you then not be hunting in "the real world"?
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Post by ridgerunner on Dec 16, 2014 16:54:58 GMT -5
The real world, is working 8-12 hr days 5 days a week then hunting a buck, the real world is having to spend your hard earned money on a bow, guns, ammo, food plots, tree stands, vehicles, hunting clothing, rangefinders etc....everything they get handed to them for free as endorsements. The real world is having to work a real job and not being able to devote 24 hrs a day 365 days a years to management for bug bucks....The real world is real world hunting like 95% of us guys on Hunting - Indiana do...If we all had unlimited resources and land we could all kill a 170-180 in deer every year too...problem is most if us live in the Real World and not a celebrity super star hunting world.
I hunted land in Illinois and had Luke Bryan, Willie Robertson, Jason Aldean, numerous NFL football stars and etc hunting right across the creek from me on an outfitter...I knew the outfitter well, heard all the stories...they show up have 2 days to hunt and want to kill a monster..no scouting, no hanging stands, no food plot prep, no running cameras, no plotting wind direction and stand locations...that's all done for them...they show up, and shoot, take the hero shot pics for some magazine cover and they're off to a concert tour, or some other event...That's not the Real World where I come from.
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Post by span870 on Dec 16, 2014 17:26:08 GMT -5
Do you think these people just showed up at realtree, Hoyt, Mathews, etc etc and said give me money and products? They worked and busted their butts to get where they are. They set a goal and worked for a singular goal. And no they don't work 8 hour 40 week. They put in an insanely amount of hours into their properties. Again Don is a huge grain farmer. You figure that's a 8/40 job? All the type of people you mentioned that hunt in Illinois not one of them is a pro hunter. Movie stars, athletes, and TV shows actors don't come into this equation. The Robertsons didn't work for what they have and the land they own? I don't get where you are getting that these things were handed to them. How and what do you think they got to the point that they are getting things handed to them? Its real world. They decided they were going to sacrifice to get where they are. And you have to remember most of them started this way before the big money handouts even started. They didn't do it thinking I'm getting a contract or a free bow. They did it for a singular mission. To grow and kill monster bucks. Its not something you yourself can't do. But what are you willing to sacrifice? ATTN. Next statement is directed to no one. A lot of guys complain about not being able to do what these guys do yet have no problem driving their $30,000 truck, hunting in their $300 stand, texting on the newest $400 iPhone whatever, wearing there $200 newest camo. Again what are you willing to sacrifice to get where you can consistently kill 170" deer.
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Post by throbak on Dec 16, 2014 18:09:08 GMT -5
The secret to big deer is no secret You have to have control a block o land big enough for a buck to live his entire life on that property if not guys like us are just making it easier for the guys from the city and all their friends to come on down and kill all the deer they see buy managing our property correctly we make it easier for them our most help is pure ol luck
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Post by beermaker on Dec 16, 2014 18:12:51 GMT -5
Before I say anything else, let it be known that I do not harbor any ill-will nor do I envy "TV hunters." I fully understand how much time and effort they have put in to get to where they are. I respect people like Kiskys, Lakoskys, Jordans, Shockey, David Blanton, etc. They seem to be genuine and respectful. I absolutely cannot stand people like Gregg Ritz and Waddell. If anyone wants to question my dislike for Ritz, just Google him and "Game Trails Lodge." He essentially took 12k acres of Ohio River bottoms and turned it into an exclusive refuge for him and his celebrity buddies. He would not even let locals hunt for antlerless. He let the property staff do it and they got busted for various violations. He, somehow, go off pretty much unscathed. No respect for that guy, whatsoever.
Anyway, I too would like for someone like Lakosky or Stan Potts to spend an entire season scouting and hunting anywhere on public land in IN. By entire season I mean hanging cameras in January and hunting through December. Just a few climbing stands and a weapon. No help hanging complimentary stand after stand or others doing scouting leg work. Yes, just like most of us do it.
I have a hunch that any given "pro-staffer" will soon realize that a nice eight point "past the ears" is a worthy and realistic goal.
I think it was Bill Dance that once said that "You can fish a lake all year long for a 10 lb bass, but if there is not a 10 lb bass in that lake, you will always be disappointed."
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 18:29:07 GMT -5
Throback has it correct. If you don't have AT LEAST many hundreds of acres under your exclusive management, you have so many potential variables working against you that you can't truly be a "trophy hunter". You may get a chance at one every few years, or just flat get lucky once in a while, but you can't bank on it.
That's what I think most of us are talking about when we say "real world"...
Obviously, the Kisky's, Lakosky's, Robertson's, Jordan's, et al, have worked really hard for what they have and no one has handed them what they have. But, compared to most of us, their hunting situations are hardly recognizable as being "real world".
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Post by ridgerunner on Dec 16, 2014 19:11:02 GMT -5
Do you think these people just showed up at realtree, Hoyt, Mathews, etc etc and said give me money and products? They worked and busted their butts to get where they are. They set a goal and worked for a singular goal. And no they don't work 8 hour 40 week. They put in an insanely amount of hours into their properties. Again Don is a huge grain farmer. You figure that's a 8/40 job? All the type of people you mentioned that hunt in Illinois not one of them is a pro hunter. Movie stars, athletes, and TV shows actors don't come into this equation. The Robertsons didn't work for what they have and the land they own? I don't get where you are getting that these things were handed to them. How and what do you think they got to the point that they are getting things handed to them? Its real world. They decided they were going to sacrifice to get where they are. And you have to remember most of them started this way before the big money handouts even started. They didn't do it thinking I'm getting a contract or a free bow. They did it for a singular mission. To grow and kill monster bucks. Its not something you yourself can't do. But what are you willing to sacrifice? ATTN. Next statement is directed to no one. A lot of guys complain about not being able to do what these guys do yet have no problem driving their $30,000 truck, hunting in their $300 stand, texting on the newest $400 iPhone whatever, wearing there $200 newest camo. Again what are you willing to sacrifice to get where you can consistently kill 170" deer. Thanks you made my point for me...case closed.
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Post by span870 on Dec 16, 2014 19:29:40 GMT -5
The point that you aren't willing to sacrifice to get there. When I bought my last place I had a singular goal to have enough land to build a running pen and fence it completely in. I gave up a lot and saved everywhere. Drive a 15 year old truck and the wifes is dang near 20 years old. Again you want it what are you willing to sacrifice? Its real world. They were just willing to work harder. Have you ever met any of them or have any knowledge besides second hand. Its kinda like the high fence debate. How many acres is unsporting. So how many acres is real world compared to unreal?
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