|
Post by shouldernuke on Dec 16, 2014 20:30:14 GMT -5
I'd like to invite some of those Big Time Celebrity hunters out to my farm where you may hunt 70 days straight for that ONE shot opportunity..."Hunting the Real World"...I'm real suspicious of the TV shows and their methods...I'm not convinced it's 100% free ranging deer, or 100% fair chase. Many of the shows are a big turn off to me...it's not real world hunting. They wouldn't kill one because they wouldn't hunt it. How is where they hunt compared to everyone else not real world. Trust me most of the BIG name hunters don't hunt behind fences. I have hunted next to Don and Kandy Kisky's and Lee and Tiffany's farms in Iowa. There are zero fences around their properties and from folks that know them worked for every acre they own. Before Don became who he is in the hunting industry he was and still is a huge grain farmer. Their property is intensely managed for producing monster deer. How many are willing to pass up 150-160 inch deer. I don't know of a single "pro" hunter that was handed what they have. The statements that get thrown around about paying an outfitter to kill a deer, I'm assuming, are spoken from guys that have never been to an outfitter. Sure most hunt on large tracts of land that will allow you to shoot any deer but if you are looking for a trophy it ain't a walk in the park. I hunted for 5 straight years and covered most of a 60,000 acre ranch before I killed my mule deer. Man I would have saved a bunch of money if I hunted with an outfitter that would have tied my deer to a tree too. This guy is also an outfitter that "pro's" use. Most of those guy book until they kill a deer. Lee hunted for three weeks until he killed his deer several years back. If you han the funds to buy and control huge tracts of land like they do and consistently killed huge deer would you then not be hunting in "the real world"? Actually most of them do hunt some HF thats a fact .All a person who wants to more about where they hunt can easily check those places that are rolledin their credits .Most of them offer a free range hunt and a HF hunt .. Sorry its all there to find out ..They also hunt places the rest of either can not afford are simply not allowed to hunt like the Property that the Team real tree hunts every year on the Milk river ..Its closed hunting and not an outfitter ..sorry most do hunt very exclusive or HF properties period .And I do know that for a fact just write down the places that roll in the credits and do some digging its out there.
|
|
|
Post by shouldernuke on Dec 16, 2014 20:35:52 GMT -5
Throback has it correct. If you don't have AT LEAST many hundreds of acres under your exclusive management, you have so many potential variables working against you that you can't truly be a "trophy hunter". You may get a chance at one every few years, or just flat get lucky once in a while, but you can't bank on it. That's what I think most of us are talking about when we say "real world"... Obviously, the Kisky's, Lakosky's, Robertson's, Jordan's, et al, have worked really hard for what they have and no one has handed them what they have. But, compared to most of us, their hunting situations are hardly recognizable as being "real world". FYI 600 acres is not even enough to keep a single deer on it all the time or safe .It takes way over 1000 and many say its not enough .A bucks extened range in most of the Midwest is over 3600 acres .LOL now thats a little more than most can control or own ..At least on a 40 hr job check anyways .
|
|
|
Post by swilk on Dec 16, 2014 20:50:10 GMT -5
Greatly depends on a persons idea of "trophy".
If that only means inches....and more importantly that magical mark of 170 inches.... I agree.
If it means age or a lower standard of inches then a person may not be able to target a specific deer each year but they can certainly have their standards and a reasonable expectation of meeting those standards each and every year on smaller properties.
Not everyone. Not every property. Not every area. But its not impossible.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 21:42:49 GMT -5
Greatly depends on a persons idea of "trophy". If that only means inches....and more importantly that magical mark of 170 inches.... I agree. If it means age or a lower standard of inches then a person may not be able to target a specific deer each year but they can certainly have their standards and a reasonable expectation of meeting those standards each and every year on smaller properties. Not everyone. Not every property. Not every area. But its not impossible. I would tend to agree. I had in mind those true monsters. Most years I at least see bucks that are 3,5 or older and top 130. To me, on small properties, that is a trophy buck. In all my years of hunting, I've only encountered one buck that I think would have made B&C. Those guys with the huge properties often have multiple bucks of that caliber running their land.
|
|
|
Post by greghopper on Dec 16, 2014 21:48:12 GMT -5
Throback has it correct. If you don't have AT LEAST many hundreds of acres under your exclusive management, you have so many potential variables working against you that you can't truly be a "trophy hunter". You may get a chance at one every few years, or just flat get lucky once in a while, but you can't bank on it. That's what I think most of us are talking about when we say "real world"... Obviously, the Kisky's, Lakosky's, Robertson's, Jordan's, et al, have worked really hard for what they have and no one has handed them what they have. But, compared to most of us, their hunting situations are hardly recognizable as being "real world". FYI 600 acres is not even enough to keep a single deer on it all the time or safe .It takes way over 1000 and many say its not enough .A bucks extened range in most of the Midwest is over 3600 acres .LOL now thats a little more than most can control or own ..At least on a 40 hr job check anyways . False statement.....read here....get to KNOW some FACTS... "The results showed that bucks utilized just 30 percent of their home territory (almost 3,000 acres on average) and, in fact, remained in just a few focal areas ranging from 60 to 140 acres in size within those areas."www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/2014/10/mind-rutting-buck?dB57133Zer1XHgyr.01
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Dec 16, 2014 23:13:52 GMT -5
Smaller tracks can certainly hold multiple buck's in the 3.5 to 5.5 age class. Key factor's include FOOD, WATER and SECURITY COVER. Give the deer what they want and need and they will come and spend a lot of time on your property. Can you make them spend 100% of their time on a smaller track. (Of course not.) Do you need 3000 acre's or even a 1000 acre's. IMO and experience no. I have 150 acre's and spend a lot of time on deer management and habitat improvement. Also have 2 great neighbor's whom I help do the same. One property 255 acre's is hunted very minimal by the older property owner. On a good year he will get 1 buck and 1 doe. The other neighbor has 230 acre's. He to hunt's during firearm and may kill 1 or 2 deer max, so there is a little over 600 acre's between the 3 of us. I have lived here 12 year's and have killed a 3.5 or 4.5 yr old buck 8 of the 12 year's. (120-140 class deer) Just about every year I will see a 150 class animal and this year have trail cam pics of a 160 class and another mid 140 class taken on my farm. As of today neither of those 2 buck's have been taken that I am aware of. Can I grow and harvest a 170 class deer every year. Again of course not, but by not shooting any 1.5 and 2.5 yr old deer on 3 farm's in my home area I certainly have plenty of opportunities at multiple 3.5 and 4.5 yr old bucks each season and know that there is a chance at a larger buck given a little luck. I can't ask for much more than that.
|
|
|
Post by ridgerunner on Dec 17, 2014 5:34:45 GMT -5
my small 80 acre hunting parcel held two mature bucks, my 80 acres was their core area..they didn't stray too far until mid September , one buck returned after the rut..it doesn't take big tracts to hold deer..just takes good cover, good food sources, water and limited pressure.
|
|
|
Post by featherduster on Dec 17, 2014 6:11:51 GMT -5
Did somebody mention PORN?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 8:08:17 GMT -5
my small 80 acre hunting parcel held two mature bucks, my 80 acres was their core area..they didn't stray too far until mid September , one buck returned after the rut..it doesn't take big tracts to hold deer..just takes good cover, good food sources, water and limited pressure. "Stayed until mid-September, one buck returned after the rut" That's just it. The closer hunting season gets, the more bucks start to increase their range. The studies I've seen show the areas of the state that have the highest deer densities hold 45-60 deer per sq mile. Let's say you have a honey hole area and double that so your area holds 100 deer per sq mile. That's 100 deer on 640 acres. How many big bucks do you think a small 20-80 acre lot is truly going to hold? Yes, through the summer, if you have great food, water, and cover, you may hold a few, but when the call of the wild starts, they will wander far and wide and your buck will get shot two farms over. If you're lucky, you may get a buck from two farms over to walk by you too. That's the reality where I hunt anyway. I'm not complaining, though. I hunt good areas and I've done alright for my standards.
|
|
|
Post by M4Madness on Dec 17, 2014 8:57:53 GMT -5
FYI 600 acres is not even enough to keep a single deer on it all the time or safe .It takes way over 1000 and many say its not enough .A bucks extened range in most of the Midwest is over 3600 acres .LOL now thats a little more than most can control or own ..At least on a 40 hr job check anyways . False statement.....read here....get to KNOW some FACTS... "The results showed that bucks utilized just 30 percent of their home territory (almost 3,000 acres on average) and, in fact, remained in just a few focal areas ranging from 60 to 140 acres in size within those areas."www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/2014/10/mind-rutting-buck?dB57133Zer1XHgyr.01Actually, that quote says they have a home range of 3000 acres. Just saying...
|
|
|
Post by ridgerunner on Dec 17, 2014 9:33:19 GMT -5
my small 80 acre hunting parcel held two mature bucks, my 80 acres was their core area..they didn't stray too far until mid September , one buck returned after the rut..it doesn't take big tracts to hold deer..just takes good cover, good food sources, water and limited pressure. "Stayed until mid-September, one buck returned after the rut" That's just it. The closer hunting season gets, the more bucks start to increase their range. The studies I've seen show the areas of the state that have the highest deer densities hold 45-60 deer per sq mile. Let's say you have a honey hole area and double that so your area holds 100 deer per sq mile. That's 100 deer on 640 acres. How many big bucks do you think a small 20-80 acre lot is truly going to hold? Yes, through the summer, if you have great food, water, and cover, you may hold a few, but when the call of the wild starts, they will wander far and wide and your buck will get shot two farms over. If you're lucky, you may get a buck from two farms over to walk by you too. That's the reality where I hunt anyway. I'm not complaining, though. I hunt good areas and I've done alright for my standards. I agree with ya there..my point was i had two mature buck that used the 80 acre as their core area. I agree with you as far as bucks increasing their range, not sure if it's hunting pressure or call of the wild ( rut closing in)..i say that, because my hunting land has basically zero pressure..especially when the bucks disappear in mid Sept..I believe once they get hard horn they're a different animal and instincts tell them to disperse for breeding purposes..if he breeds in home range/core area where he was probably born and raised, more of a chance of inbreeding... actually think it instinctive when they disperse , I don;t call it increasing their range..i think of it as natures way of preventing some inbreeding..either way the deer leave..but normally return late season to their core area...that's the best time IMO to kill the buck you've watched all summer.....unless of course he get's shot on the next farm over before he makes it back after rutting.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Dec 17, 2014 9:50:54 GMT -5
I have the utmost respect for the folks that bought or own ground and manage it for trophy deer hunting. In my opinion they earned it AND it is "real world hunting".
The fly in, climb a set stand and shoot a buck celebrities? Not so much..
I very, very seldom watch any "hunting shows". About the only one I will watch (if nothing else is on the boob tube) is Jim Shockey.I find his exotic and far off shows fascinating.
|
|
|
Post by jjas on Dec 17, 2014 10:27:14 GMT -5
The obsession with antlers has always been there.
But....tv shows and magazines have helped create the big business that is big bucks. 30 years ago if anyone had told me that (what many consider average) hunters would be leaving expensive cameras in the woods, spending thousands of dollars to lease ground, paying $1,000 (or more) for bows, shooting arrows/broad heads that cost $25.00 (or more) each, and would be planting (or leaving) crops just for the deer, I would have said you are nuts.
But that's were we are now.....and I only see the obsession continuing to grow as the competition for hunting land tightens up.
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Dec 17, 2014 11:54:46 GMT -5
I think alot depend's on the makeup of your hunting area. In my area I seriosily doubt a buck's home range is much outside a 1000 acre's. Heavy cover, plentiful food and water source's and above avg amount of doe's. No reason for them to travel that far. Next time I see one of the mature buck's on my property I will ask him how far he travel's. lol
|
|
|
Post by M4Madness on Dec 17, 2014 12:47:49 GMT -5
I shot my 5 1/2 year old buck last year way before rutting activity (October 6) over a mile from where I got pics of him all summer. The year before, I let him walk under me closer to two miles from the camera on October 2.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 13:02:39 GMT -5
I shot my 5 1/2 year old buck last year way before rutting activity (October 6) over a mile from where I got pics of him all summer. The year before, I let him walk under me closer to two miles from the camera on October 2. I never hunt further that 300-400 yards from any of my cameras. Wouldn't even be possible. We all have different "real world" scenarios, it seems.
|
|
|
Post by M4Madness on Dec 17, 2014 13:05:29 GMT -5
I shot my 5 1/2 year old buck last year way before rutting activity (October 6) over a mile from where I got pics of him all summer. The year before, I let him walk under me closer to two miles from the camera on October 2. I never hunt further that 300-400 yards from any of my cameras. Wouldn't even be possible. We all have different "real world" scenarios, it seems. Luckily for me, I'm the only one hunting all of those properties and they all adjoin each other.
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Dec 17, 2014 13:49:52 GMT -5
My last 3 buck's 141" 138" 124" were all killed within 300 yard's of where I watched them feed in a alfalfa field all summer and had trail cam pics of as well. On a side note I had 3 buck's on my hit list this year that I did not see all season, other than at night on trail cams.
|
|
|
Post by swilk on Dec 17, 2014 13:55:07 GMT -5
You used the words "hit list" ..... shame.
j/k.
|
|
|
Post by chubwub on Dec 17, 2014 13:56:42 GMT -5
I am not going to sit here and totally knock the guys who own 1000+ acres unfenced and say it's not "real world' hunting. I am sure it is probably an incredible experience to hunt unmolested with no competition and no stress. I think it would be more fair to say for me at least, it is unrelatable to my real world experiences much in the same way a hardworking businessman who can afford to dine out every night for $500 a plate "on a budget" is an unrelatable real world experience for me because of my financial, social and class status. Therefore, I find their shows and trophies uninteresting to me because their tips, products and tactics do not always translate well into my "real world" hunting. For example, all those buck deer calls that people use and the rattle bags don't seem to work very well at all for me in areas that have any sort of hunting pressure. But you see guys on TV all the time use them on those big preserves making them work like magic. If you have 1000 acres to hunt all to yourself you can afford to make a lot more mistakes. I have some experience with this kind of mindset in the horse show world with people saying "Well you need to spend x amount of dollars to achieve this ribbon and if you don't make those sacrifices then you don't deserve to even show." It's a highly competitive pay to play sport and I hate the fact that deer hunting is starting to look a lot like an industry and hobby I loved dearly that I had to leave because it was becoming warped into something that was all about how much money you could spend to win.
|
|