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Post by single_shooter on Jan 10, 2015 10:08:42 GMT -5
I got a T/C Black Diamond Muzzleloader in trade for some work this summer from a customer west of St. Louis, Mo.
I loaned the rifle to my neighbor who needed something to deer hunt with. Apparently he was over in Illinois with the rifle and the police ran the numbers and it came up as stolen from St. Joseph county, In.
I know the guy I got it from...and he got it from his son (a pastor) and I know the gun shop he bought it from (owned and operated by a retired sheriff) so there were no nefarious dealings to get the rifle...but it was stolen nonetheless.
So....Anybody in here from St. Joseph county report a stolen T/C Black Diamond muzzleloader before 2008? Or maybe 2007? We have yet to determine the actual purchase date at the gun shop.
But....right now my neighbor is sitting in jail.
And, not to sound rude or judgmental....but I recently made some statements in another thread about never trusting the police and never trust them to do their job and definitely don't trust them to do it well. Well.....this is another fine example of my reasoning behind that sentiment.
My neighbor was arrested December 23rd. That is 2 days before Christmas.....He gave them my name and phone number as to where he got the rifle. To this date they have not contacted me. He was in jail for 17 days before I finally find out he had been arrested and my rifle was a large part of it. I tried calling them this morning but apparently the detectives only work weekdays and can't be disturbed on their weekends unless it is an emergency. I wonder how emergent it would feel if they were the ones sitting in the jail.
The officer I spoke to this morning said there was no mention of the origin of the rifle in the report and no mention of my name at all. WHY would someone NOT write down ALL the information received in an investigation? Maybe they don't want him to have a chance to get out of jail for some reason? I know if I get popped for possession of a stolen gun and I borrowed it you can bet I would give them the name of who I borrowed it from...just saying. Maybe they decided they didn't believe him and figured they would just ignore that part of the story?? I don't know, but it sounds fishy to me.
The best part...I literally TELL the officer I spoke to this morning that it was MY rifle...that I loaned it to him...the officer did NOT ask my name, address or phone number....NOTHING!! He truly didn't care who I was or what I was saying. He told me I could call back Monday morning and talk to the detective in charge of the case.
I wonder how important it is to them that the true owner of that rifle get it returned to him?? I wonder if it will ever actually get there??
BUT....I am likely a bit jaded since I was left lying in a parking lot with gunshot wounds to my chest while the police officer sat in his car 15 feet away sipping his coffee and couldn't be bothered to do so much as request an ambulance because he didn't see enough blood to warrant calling one. Or the second officer who showed up, requested my ID and then brought it back to me then got back in his cruiser and left me there after writing down my info.
They kept their jobs...I barely kept my life.
Rant is now over....Climbing down off my soapbox now.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 10, 2015 10:15:50 GMT -5
 .....
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Post by single_shooter on Jan 10, 2015 10:22:26 GMT -5
Yup...keep watching...I know I stepped on some toes...hard...lol
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Post by esshup on Jan 10, 2015 10:26:50 GMT -5
What made them run the serial number on the muzzleloader? When I've been checked by the game wardens they've never done that.
I'm thinking there's more to the story.......
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Post by firstwd on Jan 10, 2015 10:56:06 GMT -5
Illinois.
That in itself explains a lot.
I remember your struggle when you got shot, and like everyone else, was flat passed off. That being said, you still can't lump all police from all over the country into that same basket.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 10, 2015 11:03:52 GMT -5
Yup...keep watching...I know I stepped on some toes...hard...lol Just looks like another " crop haters" thread to me.... But carry on!!! Lol |
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Post by swilk on Jan 10, 2015 11:16:37 GMT -5
That being said, you still can't lump all police from all over the country into that same basket. Yep....doing that is no better than the folks who act like they are all saints and that basket doesn't even exist. They are people....some are good and some are bad. |
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Post by duff on Jan 10, 2015 11:30:45 GMT -5
Sounds like more to story than a stolen black diamond...
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Post by single_shooter on Jan 10, 2015 11:53:04 GMT -5
He had the rifle in the car with him is all I know....no idea what occurred. The police refused to tell me anything. I told them that it is public information and asked if I could at least get a list of charges... and he told me if I wanted to know I could file a freedom of information request and wait for it.
Hmmm...I wonder how all the news agencies always seem to have peoples names...addresses...crimes...charges...criminal history...all accurate and all in print or posted on their website within an hour of the event occurring??? I guess I don't rate such privilege even though I am also a victim in this stolen rifle deal.
And no...I am NOT a cop hater. I look at them like many in here said they view cats. Some are friendly...some are not. But never, ever trust one....even if it seems friendly at the moment...because that could change at any moment.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 10, 2015 12:33:19 GMT -5
I am sure there's some Cops that view people the same way you view cats..... Hench your experience!!!
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Post by throbak on Jan 10, 2015 13:53:59 GMT -5
There's more to that story I. Am sure
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Post by single_shooter on Jan 10, 2015 18:56:38 GMT -5
Found out more. According to his wife...Apparently it was cold and he did not want to get out of his car so he decided to hunt from the car. And he took a shot out the window. And...apparently that is illegal??? LOL What an idiot!!! I knew he wasn't too smart but I gave him more credit than that.
I asked a buddy of mine who lives over there and he thinks that the idiot was hunting on property without having permission as well...so I am betting there are multiple charges involved here (like maybe poaching and criminal trespassing and whatever else they can dream up)...and the possession of the stolen rifle was just the cherry on the sundae. So now he is sitting in jail with a $10,000 cash bond.
Some people will never learn...
But I am still wondering why they have not contacted me at all if he told them that he borrowed the rifle from me??? I would think that if they remove the stolen weapon charge that would remove the cash bond and reduce the amount to allow him to bond out with a bondsman. Makes no sense to me at all.
Like some of you here...I am starting to wonder what else is involved here and wondering if his wife told me the whole story or if he didn't tell her the whole story. But WHY have I not been contacted?? VERY strange.
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Post by swilk on Jan 10, 2015 19:03:11 GMT -5
Once charges have been brought it falls into the prosecutors lap doesn't it?
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Post by firstwd on Jan 10, 2015 19:18:52 GMT -5
You may still be contacted, once the investigators knock on your door. ...
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Post by chubwub on Jan 10, 2015 19:36:53 GMT -5
Good luck with all that I hope it works out. I should probably refrain from sharing what a law enforcement officer did to me during a traffic stop when I was 16, just thinking about it makes my hands shake with anger and it probably isn't appropriate discussion for a family forum.
This "gentleman" probably retired from his job as a shining beacon of virtue with hand claps all around.
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Post by esshup on Jan 10, 2015 23:36:27 GMT -5
They might not be contacting you (yet). Get your ducks in a row because I could see two possibilities. I'm assuming you are in Indiana and not in Illinois?
1) They get in touch with you via having the Indiana State Police knocking at your door with an arrest warrent for furnishing him the stolen rifle. If you are in Indiana, and he's in Illinois, I don't know if that trips the Feds trigger..... I don't know how long it takes to get extradition papers filed/drawn up.
2) They are waiting for you to drive to Illinois to explain things, where they will arrest you on the spot - no extradition papers required.
Just calling there means nothing to them. All heresay. For all they know, it could be a buddies of his just saying that with the hope that they let him outta jail. If I was you, I'd get whatever paperwork you can to prove that the muzzleloader came into your posession *legally* to your knowledge. I'd make sure the other people further up the chain had their ducks in a row too. I believe that it may be going a bit slower because it isn't considered a "firearm".
I don't know if he's supposed to have a valid FOID card in his posession if he is an Illinois resident for the muzzleloader. If he's a convicted felon, then you might be on the hook for a "straw purchase". Again, I don't know if that applies to ML's or just to firearms.
Unfortunately, you might want to contact an attorney before hand just to make sure you don't get dragged down into the mess.
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Post by single_shooter on Jan 11, 2015 0:15:29 GMT -5
#1 - I LOANED it to him. Not sold or given. It was to be returned to me (moot point now)
#2 - He is a resident of Missouri as I am also. I have no idea why but I saw tonight that they did add the charge of not having a FOID card and having a loaded firearm in his vehicle (both listed as same charge)...makes no sense to me unless it is part of the same law as whichever one it is attached to as a "group" of legalities or a set of charges???.
#3 - I have all phone numbers and names ready for them to call...if they choose to do so. They can arrest me all they want....but they can't prove a damn thing except that the ML was purchased at a gun shop in Pacific, Mo about 7 years ago. Then that guy gave it to his dad...who then gave it to me and I loaned it to my neighbor. So...if they choose to arrest me they better have a damn good bit of evidence that contradicts the TRUTH!!! LOL
#4 - I guess this is what comes from being broke, desperate and stupid all at the same time. Just reminds me of the videos of the guys who road hunt and shoot the decoy deer 8 times and wonder why it's not dropping.
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Post by single_shooter on Jan 11, 2015 0:23:44 GMT -5
I didn't think to check sooner because I know Illinois has late winter deer antlerless seasons. But apparently they are all for archery...not muzzleloader...until this month and he was arrested on Dec 22nd. So this wing-nut was hunting with a ML rifle out of season as well. It just keeps getting worse...I need to stop looking at all of this before my eyes start to hurt....
Hate to say it...but this is the LAST time I loan a firearm to someone...this is just making me sick to think of the trouble that could be headed my way because of this idiot.
Right now I think the wife said he's facing a half dozen felony charges as well as some misdemeanor ones as well.....man...when he stepped in it he went hip deep!!!
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Post by featherduster on Jan 11, 2015 8:46:39 GMT -5
.
I have learned that the older I get it's best to keep my thoughts to myself till I have talked to all parties involved
then and not only then.......keep all my thoughts to myself.
Airing your thoughts on a world wide web about an incident that you only know your version of is not a good idea.
You don't know if there were additional charges pending or an outstanding warrant and maybe he is sitting in jail because he can't make bail or even worse there is no bail.
To say the gun came from the son of a pastor does that mean that he didn't steal it or obtain it from a person who did
and that his word is as good as gold because he is a pastor.
To say that it came from a gun shop owned by a retired cop makes it sound like maybe he should have known if it was stolen or not at the time of the transaction maybe he was unaware it was stolen when he took it in or maybe it wasn't reported as stolen till after the sale was made or maybe the guy who gave it to the Pastor reported it as stolen for the insurance money or maybe none of that story is true.
And most of all are you 100% sure this is the same gun you loaned him,have you checked the serial #'s.
Maybe the police didn't want to discuss this issue with you because they have a bigger case at hand like a dirty x-cop selling stolen guns and by telling you it will get out on TWITTER,FACEBOOK,WEB SITES, E-MAIL PHONE CALLS AND JUST PLAIN OLD WORD ON THE STREET then the investigation will be hindered.
chubwub if your having reoccurring nightmares about an incident that has profoundly effected you that you say was the result of a run in with law enforcement then maybe you should speak with the prosecutor in the county in which this traumatic incident occurred and see if the statute of limitations has expired on this case or can criminal charges be filed.
At the least seek professional help for this problem that has troubled you for all these years.
The one thing I have found as a handy tool offered by this web site is that little icon that looks like a gear which is located in the upper right hand corner of each and every comment section it offers folks a chance to take back statements made in poor judgement.
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Post by duff on Jan 11, 2015 9:04:28 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about all the troubles this dude has now involved you in. Sounds like a bad movie plot
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