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Post by shouldernuke on Feb 20, 2015 17:09:32 GMT -5
Guys I have said over and over here its about the money and its going to pass .Sorry but its always about the money and power with the IN or Fed gov. I have also said that the DNR is just as dirty but play the game a little different on most issues just like the loss of deer and unwillingness to give numbers .Sorry they are not making biological and intrinsic decisions about our deer herd they are making money and political decisions .You can all say what you want but every move they make is about tear down ,back with false statements they call facts in stupid little press releases for the gullible like they need no hard numbers or plan with real end numbers to manage our deer .TOTAL BS. they will do what makes them money and benefits the top brass and Big Big money lobbies is at the end of the day wht they will do... They hide behind so called opportunity and "Social issues and their plans cover decades not a few years make no mistake. You likely do not want to know the deals cut behind the closed doors of or DNR and state house .Remember the thread with pic I put here a few weeks ago about the funding woes back at the OBR major rule structure changes back around 2001-2002 that was not some coincidence here and how we have gotten where we are now . You are all free to believe what you want but we got xbows for the tag money and to help eliminate the deer herd here .LOL Rifles are the same and so are those longer and new gun seasons .They are not giving them to promote hunting and make hunters happy .LMAO and SMH at those who think we were even close to any sort of overpopulation or deer "apocalypse" and super habitat loss anywhere hunting was allowed in our state . Been my take on all this with wide open eyes for a very long time 1.0 or 2.0 it was still all about money and herd loss over time .The only difference is how we got there for the DNR and state Gov and all those "special interest groups". GOOD POST & "Spot-on". It is, like everything else, always about money, and not about the resource. I find it quite amusing when people say they are doing the best they can or its a thankless job ..Guys almost all jobs are thankless at the end of the day. However they are right in one respect it will remain an un-thanked job as long as they continue to sell our resources for the almighty $ and allow or resources and game to go to the highest bidder because of a lobby and Gov deal .Let something like the OBR or the current xbow rule get axed or let the deer herd get too low in the Precious southern IN deer belt like it is over the mid and northern IN area counties and see how this all goes around all the WEB chat pages and newspaper writers in a few years ! Just saying there is always a down side to any deal with the devil / DNR / GOV/ Big Money Businesses . Special interest lobbies tend to also be campaign contributors . There was a time when it was a bit more pure in the DNR IMHO but those days are long dead and gone here in our state . I really hate being so skeptical and negative but they have yet to surprise me or change my expectations of them .They meticulously plan everything years in advance and have for couple decades .We are right on course to make them even more money for the state coffers and reduce those pesky car smashing bean and corn eating deer to levels not seen since the 1970-1980s wait and see.
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Post by trapperdave on Feb 21, 2015 5:37:14 GMT -5
if you want change in gooberment...quit voting R or D. They are all the same. The only difference is one has a jackass for a mascot (and leader) and the other has an elephant.
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Post by drs on Feb 21, 2015 10:09:24 GMT -5
if you want change in gooberment...quit voting R or D. They are all the same. The only difference is one has a jackass for a mascot (and leader) and the other has an elephant. Then [WHO] do we vote for, "trapperdave" Personally, I am a Conservative Republican, in which I believe could do a much better than the "Liberal" Democrats, that are in office, at the State or Federal level.
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Post by dbd870 on Feb 21, 2015 11:27:51 GMT -5
We are really getting off topic now. Might be best to start a new thread in the Politics section on this latest side track.
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Post by chubwub on Feb 21, 2015 12:13:40 GMT -5
People who complain about having a thankless job get an eyeroll and zero sympathy from me. Not after the stuff I've been asked to do for my job, lol.
Even though this bill has passed, we are all free to urge others to boycott these kinds of business and urge others to do the same. As I have said in the past I am ambivalent to canned hunting as we do it with so many other species that to make an exception for deer is hypocritical.
It is hard to say what impact if any this has on us as hunters. The majority of indiana is already privately owned. I'm still not allowed to hunt places wether it's because of a lease company or owned by a canned hunt farm. Either way I've been outpriced and pushed aside. You never know, the canned hunts might ease up the pressure on the wild deer herd by culling those out who just want to kill for a pair of pointy bones that they can strut around with.
Honestly for me where DNR has really dropped the ball is misappropriated funds that should have been used soley to buy more public land which Indiana needs a lot more of.
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Post by shouldernuke on Feb 21, 2015 12:34:03 GMT -5
People who complain about having a thankless job get an eyeroll and zero sympathy from me. Not after the stuff I've been asked to do for my job, lol. Even though this bill has passed, we are all free to urge others to boycott these kinds of business and urge others to do the same. As I have said in the past I am ambivalent to canned hunting as we do it with so many other species that to make an exception for deer is hypocritical. It is hard to say what impact if any this has on us as hunters. The majority of indiana is already privately owned. I'm still not allowed to hunt places wether it's because of a lease company or owned by a canned hunt farm. Either way I've been outpriced and pushed aside. You never know, the canned hunts might ease up the pressure on the wild deer herd by culling those out who just want to kill for a pair of pointy bones that they can strut around with. Honestly for me where DNR has really dropped the ball is misappropriated funds that should have been used soley to buy more public land which Indiana needs a lot more of. Agreed I also could care less just be fair .Now with that said it shows exactly what I said it was and has been about for a long time in the DNR and gov. That's my beef where its at now .They are ok wen they are doing things for some who support what "things" they want but let this sort of thing happen it shows they are and have always been exactly what I suspected . Im with you many hunters will simply pay to shoot that big buck and walk away after a day or two since they still have to use their IN deer license they wont be shooting one outside that fence here!! See they still call it hunting because they require a Deer license to hunt there .They got em coming and going .LOL
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Post by hunterman on Feb 21, 2015 14:40:49 GMT -5
The deer killed on hunting preserves do not affect your regular deer tag at all. There is no connection between the two.
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Post by throbak on Feb 21, 2015 16:12:57 GMT -5
What misaproprated funds??
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Post by chubwub on Feb 21, 2015 17:49:19 GMT -5
What misaproprated funds?? Probably should have said state instead. The whole Jud McMillan crap comes to mind. Why/how does he need 6 MILLION dollars to fix the facilities there? I've been there...what exactly needs fixing that costs that much $$$? Are wooden picnic tables and shelters really that expensive? I'm going to flat out admit I don't have any concrete proof right atm but just a nagging feeling. Too many places my fiance has commented on "then and now" and seen firsthand and having a pretty good idea of what it costs. Dove fields no longer being planted with sunflowers that used to be awesomely maintained. Half arsed jobs on crop fields for wildlife. Not clearing invasive brush, not planting trees anymore, not stocking ponds and lakes,shutting off an entire section of public from hunting even though it's bought with license fees (cough DUGGER UNIT, MINEHAHA cough) woods being cleared to make cabins and hiking/horse/bike trails (sometimes good and bad)....honestly just seeing way too much stuff being done to cater more to nonhunters use of the woods who pay ZERO dollars to go and frolic in the woods in their spandex compared to the people who actually pay the most money to support and utilize public land...the hunters. Shrinking amounts of public land yet hiring more employees to manage and patrol it...why would a smaller area take more resources to manage and patrol? I have always been under the impression that funds generated from hunters would and should be used in the pursuit of improving WILDLIFE habitat first and foremost... not human habitat in public lands. What I have witnessed the state/dnr/politicians doing is not what I was taught by the state's hunter safety the Pittman Robertson act and license fees were for.
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Post by shouldernuke on Feb 21, 2015 19:46:24 GMT -5
The deer killed on hunting preserves do not affect your regular deer tag at all. There is no connection between the two. Actually yes it does that is what got some hunters / shooters in trouble at Bellars still required to have a license here in IN. to hunt even a preserve .And it had to be in season as well . Jimmy Houston comes to mind here.
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Post by hunterman on Feb 21, 2015 20:03:46 GMT -5
shouldernuke- I assure you hundreds and hundred of deer have been taken on preserves and no deer tag of any type is used. Since 2005 there has been absolutely no rules and regulations of any type. A court ordered temporary injunction in 2005 prevented the DNR from doing anything on the preserves and remained in place until the circuit court and appellate court recently made it permanent. HB 1453 would allow the DNR some oversight and establish rules and regulations. Even then a State deer tag will not be used. As in the past and currently Indiana hunters will be able to hunt on a preserve without affecting their Indiana tag.
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Post by shouldernuke on Feb 21, 2015 20:26:37 GMT -5
shouldernuke- I assure you hundreds and hundred of deer have been taken on preserves and no deer tag of any type is used. Since 2005 there has been absolutely no rules and regulations of any type. A court ordered temporary injunction in 2005 prevented the DNR from doing anything on the preserves and remained in place until the circuit court and appellate court recently made it permanent. HB 1453 would allow the DNR some oversight and establish rules and regulations. Even then a State deer tag will not be used. As in the past and currently Indiana hunters will be able to hunt on a preserve without affecting their Indiana tag. OH ok then expect tags and the deer to count against the state limits then if the dnr is going to over see and set the rules .LOL what makes you think that now that the door is back open they will allow the injunction ruling to continue with no revenue and applying the state rules?? Remember what I just posted here .Change will come and it will be right back where it was before 2005 or more harsh . The DNR has never missed a chance to create a new tag /license and apply current state laws to any deer hunting here .The only reason that it stopped is obviously a past court ruling thats now defunct .
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Post by hunterman on Feb 21, 2015 20:40:08 GMT -5
As it stands the DNR has no authority and will remain as such until the Legislature acts or until the Supreme Court rules should the AG appeal. There are no "States Rules" regarding high fence hunting preserves currently, thats what all the court ruling cleared up. HB1453 will allow for a transportation tag fee to go to the DNR for their role in the oversight of the preserves. The rules and regs are set by BB1453, that's why its being offered. The deer license and harvest numbers will remain separate from the states deer as they should.
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Post by drs on Feb 22, 2015 5:31:42 GMT -5
We are really getting off topic now. Might be best to start a new thread in the Politics section on this latest side track. Must agree with you on this. Too bad Politics has to "enter" a hunting forum. Some forums won't allow any political posts or threads.
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Post by sakorifle on Feb 22, 2015 14:14:44 GMT -5
Greetings It's always about money. The question to our department two weeks,ago was not, why is the cull up or down. It was Why is venison revenue down? Answer Because the game dealer is paying less, duh!!!, Money rules,most things. Bad day for Indiana when canned hunting started. Regards Billy
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Post by drs on Feb 23, 2015 5:12:29 GMT -5
Greetings It's always about money. The question to our department two weeks,ago was not, why is the cull up or down. It was Why is venison revenue down? Answer Because the game dealer is paying less, duh!!!, Money rules,most things. Bad day for Indiana when canned hunting started. Regards Billy YES!! A VERY BAD day for Indiana Deer Hunters.
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 9:56:13 GMT -5
Its always a bad day when poachers, unethical hunters or canned hunting exist. But that is why we must do everything we can to prevent the bad eggs from hurting the rest of sportsmen. This bill does exactly that with rules and regs to prevent canned hunting so the rest of sportsmen can enjoy hunting on either side of the fence. Its all about choice, some dont like the one buck rule, some dont like the crossbow, some wont like the high powered rifle and some dont like hunting preserves. But the fact is you dont have to like it or participate but we can force all other sportsmen to only like and hunt the way we personally do.
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Post by drs on Feb 23, 2015 10:29:02 GMT -5
Its always a bad day when poachers, unethical hunters or canned hunting exist. But that is why we must do everything we can to prevent the bad eggs from hurting the rest of sportsmen. This bill does exactly that with rules and regs to prevent canned hunting so the rest of sportsmen can enjoy hunting on either side of the fence. Its all about choice, some dont like the one buck rule, some dont like the crossbow, some wont like the high powered rifle and some dont like hunting preserves. But the fact is you dont have to like it or participate but we can force all other sportsmen to only like and hunt the way we personally do. Canned Hunts will only do damage to the image of sport hunting, in the eyes of the public. ESPECIALLY NON-HUNTING PUBLIC. Canned hunting does absolutely nothing to preserve traditional sport hunting or resources.
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 10:36:49 GMT -5
I agree about canned hunting, HOWEVER, the hunting preserves in Indiana are not canned hunting. Your analogy is like calling all sportsmen poachers. Huge difference.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Feb 23, 2015 11:00:00 GMT -5
Hunterman -
You seem very knowledgeable about this topic. Do you own or work at a hunting preserve?
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