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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on May 16, 2015 19:10:59 GMT -5
Everyone's assuming HPR's are going to be so much more dangerous - PA's study has proved that it is not so This is interesting, and I'm glad to hear it. Will land managers have any say about this on their land or not? Atterbury didn't say one can't use a rifle to shoot coyote, so maybe they'll be okay with it if it were to pass. For them not to allow taking a doe with a firearm surely isn't to control doe population would you think? I was thinking safety, but I really don't know. This land is much flatter than the forests I've been in.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on May 16, 2015 19:16:51 GMT -5
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if more people wanted to hunt deer just to use their rifle, especially their AR, but I guess we'll have to find out.
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Post by firstwd on May 16, 2015 19:20:53 GMT -5
The opposition to HPR'S has nothing to do with the ballistics, safety, or range. It has to do with the chicken little effect. People go around screaming inaccurate information about a subject they are ignorant about and gather a large group of supporters to echo their "facts".
Does that remind anyone of any recent situations?
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Post by Woody Williams on May 16, 2015 19:20:55 GMT -5
Jon,
Yes the landowners have ultimate say in what can be used on their land...as long as it is an Indiana legal hunting tool. If a landowner did not want centerfires on his/her land they just say " no centerfires".
The original youth season was designated antlerless only as certain people convinced the DNR that landowners would close their land to youths if the youths were allowed to take antlered deer . It took me quite awhile to convince them that wasn't true and that landowners could still say "no antlered deer" for any youth hunting their properties.
The DNR gives us the boundaries of what we can and can not do. We can do whatever we want within those boundaries.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on May 16, 2015 19:21:57 GMT -5
The dangerous part in my mind is not the average hunter, but the ones who just want to shoot a big animal with their AR.
You guys taught me right off that bat about being ethical and taking one good shot; this stuck with me. This is what I wanted to be, but there might be an acute flux of inexperienced guys with ARs in the woods if it passes. I might stay in my bottom tree stand until it calms down.
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Post by firstwd on May 16, 2015 19:23:52 GMT -5
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if more people wanted to hunt deer just to use their rifle, especially their AR, but I guess we'll have to find out. That is another fear used against their inclusion. I honestly doubt that would be the case, but what would be the problem if a new legal hunting tool added members to our ranks? Honestly, did the additional people that crossbows attracted cause any problems?
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on May 16, 2015 19:26:09 GMT -5
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if more people wanted to hunt deer just to use their rifle, especially their AR, but I guess we'll have to find out. That is another fear used against their inclusion. I honestly doubt that would be the case, but what would be the problem if a new legal hunting tool added members to our ranks? Honestly, did the additional people that crossbows attracted cause any problems? I'm all for new hunters. When I spoke, some people I know popped in my mind, and I'm not sure I want them in the same woods with me. LOL
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Post by firstwd on May 16, 2015 19:30:00 GMT -5
Then it shouldn't matter what they are carrying, and I wouldn't invite them to hunt with you. :-)
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Post by M4Madness on May 16, 2015 20:40:24 GMT -5
The dangerous part in my mind is not the average hunter, but the ones who just want to shoot a big animal with their AR. You guys taught me right off that bat about being ethical and taking one good shot; this stuck with me. This is what I wanted to be, but there might be an acute flux of inexperienced guys with ARs in the woods if it passes. I might stay in my bottom tree stand until it calms down. Remember, AR-15 rifles are legal for deer now, if chambered in .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf, .358 WSSM, etc. Also, ground level is more dangerous than up in a tree.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on May 16, 2015 20:48:43 GMT -5
The dangerous part in my mind is not the average hunter, but the ones who just want to shoot a big animal with their AR. You guys taught me right off that bat about being ethical and taking one good shot; this stuck with me. This is what I wanted to be, but there might be an acute flux of inexperienced guys with ARs in the woods if it passes. I might stay in my bottom tree stand until it calms down. Remember, AR-15 rifles are legal for deer now, if chambered in .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf, .358 WSSM, etc. Also, ground level is more dangerous than up in a tree. I didn't know about the legal ones. I was thinking that it would be plenty safe from a tree.
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Post by greghopper on May 16, 2015 21:16:12 GMT -5
The dangerous part in my mind is not the average hunter, but the ones who just want to shoot a big animal with their AR. You guys taught me right off that bat about being ethical and taking one good shot; this stuck with me. This is what I wanted to be, but there might be an acute flux of inexperienced guys with ARs in the woods if it passes. I might stay in my bottom tree stand until it calms down. Also, ground level is more dangerous than up in a tree. Only on flat ground....rolling hills is another story!!
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Post by M4Madness on May 16, 2015 21:28:48 GMT -5
Also, ground level is more dangerous than up in a tree. Only on flat ground....rolling hills is another story!! I'd still take my chances up in the limbs. LOL!
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Post by Gunsafe on May 16, 2015 23:15:29 GMT -5
Just heard on witz Potaka Sportsman that DNR WILL NOT legalize HPR for deer hunting in Indiana , but its still OK to use high powered pistols this burns me just to write about it, indiana is the dumbest state in the country , you can hunt almost anything with a center fire rifle except deer , some people are just dumb ......
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Post by drs on May 17, 2015 4:38:58 GMT -5
Everyone's assuming HPR's are going to be so much more dangerous - PA's study has proved that it is not so I believe it's more of a "Gun Control" issue rather than a Hunting/Safety issue. Hunters should have the right to chose which weapon is best suited for their hunting situation. As for safety reasons; I believe all Hunters exhibit that trait, being careful as if they were using a M/L, Slug gun, or crossbow. Also I am certain the harvest number would be inline with Deer bagged with PCR's, Shotgun Slugs, Handguns, and M/L's.
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Post by drs on May 17, 2015 4:59:41 GMT -5
Just heard on witz Potaka Sportsman that DNR WILL NOT legalize HPR for deer hunting in Indiana , but its still OK to use high powered pistols this burns me just to write about it, indiana is the dumbest state in the country , you can hunt almost anything with a center fire rifle except deer , some people are just dumb ...... It is stupid! Those DNR officials are making the rules, following the advise of "City People" of which most don't even hunt or own a firearm, but out number the Folks that do. These anti-gun people are just "Yuppies" that just want to throw their weight around, by denying your right to use the equipment of your choice, without a valid reason or study results. Kentucky has several stupid rules regarding equipment use like:1. Allowing ANY centerfire rifle for Deer (like the .22 Hornet, .25-20, .17 Remington, etc.) 2. Not Allowing the use of centerfire ammunition for hunting Squirrels like a reduced .22 Hornet Handload. 3. It's even illegal to hunt Squirrels with a Slingshot, in Ky. 4. Allowing the use of .410 shotgun to be used hunting Wild Turkeys. 5. Requiring a general Hunting License before one can purchase a Deer Tag, which can run into serious money for out-of-state Hunters. 6. Requiring a Fishing License, in order to fish in a PRIVATE pond or lake. 7. An "uneven" Deer Hunting Season where some Counties only have 10 days (Zones 3 & 4) while other (in zones 1 or 2) get a full 16 Days to hunt Deer during the modern gun season.
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Post by firstwd on May 17, 2015 5:39:30 GMT -5
Everyone's assuming HPR's are going to be so much more dangerous - PA's study has proved that it is not so I believe it's more of a "Gun Control" issue rather than a Hunting/Safety issue. Hunters should have the right to chose which weapon is best suited for their hunting situation. As for safety reasons; I believe all Hunters exhibit that trait, being careful as if they were using a M/L, Slug gun, or crossbow. Also I am certain the harvest number would be inline with Deer bagged with PCR's, Shotgun Slugs, Handguns, and M/L's. I can see recorded harvest numbers going up, but the actual deer kill dropping. I've seen too many deer shot that ran off and not found or not even looked for because they didn't drop within sight. Yes it happens with HPR's too, but not nearly as often.
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Post by dbd870 on May 17, 2015 6:26:59 GMT -5
I believe it's more of a "Gun Control" issue rather than a Hunting/Safety issue. Hunters should have the right to chose which weapon is best suited for their hunting situation. As for safety reasons; I believe all Hunters exhibit that trait, being careful as if they were using a M/L, Slug gun, or crossbow. Also I am certain the harvest number would be inline with Deer bagged with PCR's, Shotgun Slugs, Handguns, and M/L's. I can see recorded harvest numbers going up, but the actual deer kill dropping. I've seen too many deer shot that ran off and not found or not even looked for because they didn't drop within sight. Yes it happens with HPR's too, but not nearly as often. That's the main reason I'm in favor of the HPR proposal; I don't have 200+ yard shot anywhere I hunt in IN any small advantage a little flatter round would afford me is irrelevant to me. The increased chances of a recovery is the best reason to me.
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Post by jimstc on May 17, 2015 7:16:07 GMT -5
Check the ballistics of some of the 12 gauge sabot slugs shot from a rifled barrel. Also search (Google) for reports of kills out to 200 yards. A round such as the Rem Accu Tip appears to transform a shotgun into what is very close to a rifle in terms of muzzle velocity, muzzle energy, 100 yard energy and bullet flight. Maximum point blank range for the Accu Tip is 160 yards! Recommended zero is 94 yards. I can live with that. The important point made by Chuck Hawks in the article cite I mentioned above, is that this type of bullet has a high probability of being more dangerous than a bullet from a HPR. These sabots are .50 cal and up. The Accu Tip is .58 cal. A small limb isn't going to stop that round. In the interest of full disclosure I have not shot these yet. I have always hunted with Brenneke Magnum slugs, smooth bore barrel and a rifled choke. But, Friday I did order a fully rifled 23" barrel for my 870 and did the research on the sabot slugs. My thinking is this combo is going to get as close as the rules provide to an HPR
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Post by deerhunter1110 on May 18, 2015 7:42:16 GMT -5
I think if it don't pass it is due to bow hunters and horn hunters crying they can't have it all their way. Don't take me wrong I bow hunt and like to have nice big horns on the wall but bow hunters cry they have it harder butt they have 3 1/2 months to hunt we get a month with guns any time they propose new laws for gun hunters all you hear is not fair to give gun hunters a chance to come in to 19th century with the rest of the country you hear won't have big horned deer we can only shoot are bows 50 yards mane gun hunters should cry we need more time to hunt let's start a petition to get more time for gun hunters we all work why would bow hunters get so many weekends and we get 5
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Post by dbd870 on May 18, 2015 7:45:02 GMT -5
Nah, the reason it got so many negative responses is due to the myths out there about HPR's that people believe.
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