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Post by squirrelhunter on Apr 16, 2015 10:22:58 GMT -5
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Post by drs on Apr 17, 2015 4:53:21 GMT -5
Back when I lived in Evansville, My Brother built a lake which at it's deepest point was 25'. He placed fathead minnows and Channel Catfish in it. Things were going well, for around five years, until one July they started to die off. We gather-up all the dead fish and he got one of those pond aerators. Must tell you that the aerator did very little as the remaining Catfish also died six months latter. Had the water tested and found it had an over abundance of nitrogen which was causing algae bloom, which died and depleted the oxygen through decomposition of the algae. How this occurred is that we lived about 3/4 mile east of HWY-41, and all the traffic and trucks emitted exhaust containing oxide of nitrogen which settled over the lake, during the months of July & August, when the air is usually calm and humid. My Brother bought an aerator used it but this did no good, so he got his money back. If you or anyone wishing to maintain a pond or lake the BEST thing to have is a "Spring-fed" lake, then an aerator is not necessary. Don't know what species of fish you have stocked but I hope you have a "Spring-Fed" pond.
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Post by squirrelhunter on Apr 17, 2015 7:57:01 GMT -5
No it's not spring fed. I wasn't the only one that lost fish last year,a lot of people around here lost fish because of the bad winter. The pond's been there around 30 years I think and that was the only time that's happened. Time will tell,but I have to do something,the vegetation and algae is getting terrible. I've never seen it this bad for as long as it's been here. I also put inn 3 more grass carp making my total 5.
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Post by drs on Apr 17, 2015 8:33:17 GMT -5
No it's not spring fed. I wasn't the only one that lost fish last year,a lot of people around here lost fish because of the bad winter. The pond's been there around 30 years I think and that was the only time that's happened. Time will tell,but I have to do something,the vegetation and algae is getting terrible. I've never seen it this bad for as long as it's been here. I also put inn 3 more grass carp making my total 5. While I am certain this past winter wasn't good for ponds or fish of all species. However, from what I am reading here, is the fact that your pond is 30 years old and lacking a spring, might be the problem. Since, you state the algae problem is getting worse, tells me that your pond is a shallow pond. Over the years debris have accumulated and your pond is filling in with decaying algae. What is needed is to dredge and deepen your pond to rid the algae. Adding Grass Carp will do little to correct the problem your having, you'll just end-up with five more dead fish. I am not certain what variety/species of fish living in your pond, but one thing is, for a healthy pond/lake, is clean water that is in balance with your fish population, and supplies enough oxygen for them, plus a spring running into the lake/pond. Back, when I lived in Indiana, a friend had the same problem as yours. He had his lake dredged, which improved it greatly, however he had a spring feeding his lake.
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Post by featherduster on Apr 17, 2015 10:55:41 GMT -5
In my opinion I would seek the advise of a professional before I would spend anymore money on that pond. Maybe hiring a excavator with an extended reach machine would be a good idea to help deepen and cleanup the pond them maybe a good herbicide to rid the pond of undesirable vegetation. I know that aerators alone may not be the answer. Before you restock or add more fish seek professional advise.
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Post by freedomhunter on Apr 18, 2015 6:42:29 GMT -5
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Post by squirrelhunter on Apr 18, 2015 12:55:36 GMT -5
No it's not spring fed. I wasn't the only one that lost fish last year,a lot of people around here lost fish because of the bad winter. The pond's been there around 30 years I think and that was the only time that's happened. Time will tell,but I have to do something,the vegetation and algae is getting terrible. I've never seen it this bad for as long as it's been here. I also put inn 3 more grass carp making my total 5. While I am certain this past winter wasn't good for ponds or fish of all species. However, from what I am reading here, is the fact that your pond is 30 years old and lacking a spring, might be the problem. Since, you state the algae problem is getting worse, tells me that your pond is a shallow pond. Over the years debris have accumulated and your pond is filling in with decaying algae. What is needed is to dredge and deepen your pond to rid the algae. Adding Grass Carp will do little to correct the problem your having, you'll just end-up with five more dead fish. I am not certain what variety/species of fish living in your pond, but one thing is, for a healthy pond/lake, is clean water that is in balance with your fish population, and supplies enough oxygen for them, plus a spring running into the lake/pond. Back, when I lived in Indiana, a friend had the same problem as yours. He had his lake dredged, which improved it greatly, however he had a spring feeding his lake. It depends on what you call shallow,it's about 4' on one end gradually going down to 10' on the other which I just had excavated last year. I've also thought about having it dredged or adding beneficial bacteria like featherduster said. The algae is only bad on the shallow end that I can tell. I can't tell on the deeper half. I'm not saying I think the aerator will solve all the problems but from what I'm reading and hearing it will help a lot,especially once I get it cleaned up,whichever way I go about it.
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Post by drs on Apr 19, 2015 4:04:18 GMT -5
While I am certain this past winter wasn't good for ponds or fish of all species. However, from what I am reading here, is the fact that your pond is 30 years old and lacking a spring, might be the problem. Since, you state the algae problem is getting worse, tells me that your pond is a shallow pond. Over the years debris have accumulated and your pond is filling in with decaying algae. What is needed is to dredge and deepen your pond to rid the algae. Adding Grass Carp will do little to correct the problem your having, you'll just end-up with five more dead fish. I am not certain what variety/species of fish living in your pond, but one thing is, for a healthy pond/lake, is clean water that is in balance with your fish population, and supplies enough oxygen for them, plus a spring running into the lake/pond. Back, when I lived in Indiana, a friend had the same problem as yours. He had his lake dredged, which improved it greatly, however he had a spring feeding his lake. It depends on what you call shallow,it's about 4' on one end gradually going down to 10' on the other which I just had excavated last year. I've also thought about having it dredged or adding beneficial bacteria like featherduster said. The algae is only bad on the shallow end that I can tell. I can't tell on the deeper half. I'm not saying I think the aerator will solve all the problems but from what I'm reading and hearing it will help a lot,especially once I get it cleaned up,whichever way I go about it. I am sorry to have to tell you, that your pond is way to small and shallow to support a number of fish. I once again viewed your pond and it looks very similar to a pond not to far from my place. His pond always has a lot of algae, and is small and shallow, being about the same depth as yours, and has no fish to speak of. Buying an aerator is a complete waste of money, as they are mainly used for small "Garden Ponds" where one has ornamental species of fish, and the owner manages it quite frequently. I don't know what type of Bacteria will benefit your pond, as it might make conditions worse. What I would still do is dredge the pond and increase its diameter at least a full three acres and depth around 18' to 25' if possible. However, do what you feel is correct in fixing you pond, just adding my opinion on how to correct this issue you are having. It also sounds like this pond was once a watering hole for cattle. ~GOOD LUCK with whatever you decide.
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Post by squirrelhunter on Apr 19, 2015 11:07:01 GMT -5
It depends on what you call shallow,it's about 4' on one end gradually going down to 10' on the other which I just had excavated last year. I've also thought about having it dredged or adding beneficial bacteria like featherduster said. The algae is only bad on the shallow end that I can tell. I can't tell on the deeper half. I'm not saying I think the aerator will solve all the problems but from what I'm reading and hearing it will help a lot,especially once I get it cleaned up,whichever way I go about it. I am sorry to have to tell you, that your pond is way to small and shallow to support a number of fish. I once again viewed your pond and it looks very similar to a pond not to far from my place. His pond always has a lot of algae, and is small and shallow, being about the same depth as yours, and has no fish to speak of. Buying an aerator is a complete waste of money, as they are mainly used for small "Garden Ponds" where one has ornamental species of fish, and the owner manages it quite frequently. I don't know what type of Bacteria will benefit your pond, as it might make conditions worse. What I would still do is dredge the pond and increase its diameter at least a full three acres and depth around 18' to 25' if possible. However, do what you feel is correct in fixing you pond, just adding my opinion on how to correct this issue you are having. It also sounds like this pond was once a watering hole for cattle. ~GOOD LUCK with whatever you decide. Thank you for your opinion but my dad had this pond put in for fishing,I only own 3 acres and I know of several people with small ponds like this,about the same size and depth and have a lot of fish in it,this one did until they suffocated from the pond being frozen so long,this aerator will stop that issue because even frozen they will still get oxygen. Before that happened there were about 7' catfish,5' largemouth,crappie and more bluegill than you could shake a stick at. Dad hardly ever kept anything so most of the fish had been in there for years,no problems. I started cleaning out the large bass and some of the bluegill because it was getting overpopulated. I took out 200 bluegill and when I lost them there was still at least that many in there. I stocked it last year from a supplier that has packages figured up for different size ponds. I told them what I had and the package they came up with included sunfish,bluegill,hybrid bluegill,hybrid striped bass,channel catfish,albino catfish,grass carp,bullfrogs,shiner minnows and fathead minnows. All the fish I see have grown quite a bit,the hybrid bluegill and some of the regular bluegill are already the size of my hand and the regular bluegill are reproducing.The grass carp have always done a good job of cleaning the algae up but since they died and 1 of the 2 they stocked died the day after delivery,I only had 1 little one in there and he more than doubled in size last year. I just stocked a few more making my total 5 now and the supplier says for my pond that should be about right. Now I am planning on cleaning out a few of each kind of fish because I'd rather have a few big ones than a bunch of little ones. I'm also planning on trying to rake some of that stuff out once it gets a little warmer. Like I said,the main reason I bought the aerator was to make sure they still get oxygen when it's frozen,they make different kinds,ones for shallow ponds and some for ponds up to 30' deep which is what I have. Thanks again for your thoughts. By the way,that video only shows 1 end of the pond,not all of it by a long way,and that's the shallow end.
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Post by esshup on Apr 22, 2015 22:04:20 GMT -5
drs, how much oxygen is in the groundwater that goes into a pond from an underwater spring?
Since we're discussing aerators, here's some quasi technical advice. Aeration systems that are correctly designed are sized for each pond. One size will fit some, if the "some" have the same water volume, depth and BOD (biochemical oxygen demand). Water depth, amount of acre feet of water in the pond, etc., etc. There are agitators that pull water up and throw it around with a boat type propeller, fountains and bottom diffusion aeration systems that pump air to diffusers on the pond bottom, and the bubbles make their way to the surface.
Contrary to what a lot of people think, the water doesn't get the majority of the O2 transfer from the bubbles, it gets the O2 from it's interface with the air on the surface of the pond. To know if a system is designed properly, an easy way is to take a thermometer and take the water temp from top to bottom in the middle of the summer. If the there is no stratification in the pond (thermocline), then the aerator is doing it's job. Another way is to use a dissolved oxygen meter, but for the average pond owner, buying a $500 to $1,000.00+ meter isn't practical. If you can test the DO (dissolved Oxygen) you want the level to be no lower than 3 ppm or mg/l but I prefer not to let it drop below 5 mg/l.
Different diffusers move different volumes of water. The deeper the diffuser is placed, the more volume of water it will move.
Winter aeration is different than summer aeration. You want the pond to stratify in the winter, as the water at 39°F is the densest and will sink to the bottom. If the fish don't have a "warm" water refuge to go to, they will be stressed by the cold water (below 39°F). Typically we set up winter diffusers in 1/4 to 1/3 the pond depth, and make sure that there is open water all the way to shallow water, allowing anything that might go swimming a way to walk out of the pond instead of climbing up on the ice. You only need 10% of the pond surface area open during the winter for winter aeration. So leaving the summer diffuser in place and running it all winter long isn't the best thing to do for the health of the fish in the pond. We either have the pond owners move a diffuser or 2 to shallower water, or have both winter and summer diffusers in the pond, and they are switched via a ball valve on a manifold near the pond edge.
If the aeration system is properly sized for your pond, having an algae bloom won't affect the fish during the summer, providing water visibility isn't less than 12" (use a secchi disk). Algae (both filamentous and phytoplankton) makes O2 during the day, but uses O2 at night or during very cloudy days. Having an aeration system bringing water to the pond surface all night long will help prevent a DO crash in the early morning hours before the sun starts the photosynthesis engine running again.
Typically a system is sized to bring the complete pond water volume to the surface a minimum of once per day, and 2-3 times per day in eutrophic ponds.
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Post by drs on Apr 23, 2015 4:26:58 GMT -5
drs, how much oxygen is in the groundwater that goes into a pond from an underwater spring? Since we're discussing aerators, here's some quasi technical advice. Aeration systems that are correctly designed are sized for each pond. One size will fit some, if the "some" have the same water volume, depth and BOD (biochemical oxygen demand). Water depth, amount of acre feet of water in the pond, etc., etc. There are agitators that pull water up and throw it around with a boat type propeller, fountains and bottom diffusion aeration systems that pump air to diffusers on the pond bottom, and the bubbles make their way to the surface. Contrary to what a lot of people think, the water doesn't get the majority of the O2 transfer from the bubbles, it gets the O2 from it's interface with the air on the surface of the pond. To know if a system is designed properly, an easy way is to take a thermometer and take the water temp from top to bottom in the middle of the summer. If the there is no stratification in the pond (thermocline), then the aerator is doing it's job. Another way is to use a dissolved oxygen meter, but for the average pond owner, buying a $500 to $1,000.00+ meter isn't practical. If you can test the DO (dissolved Oxygen) you want the level to be no lower than 3 ppm or mg/l but I prefer not to let it drop below 5 mg/l. Different diffusers move different volumes of water. The deeper the diffuser is placed, the more volume of water it will move. Winter aeration is different than summer aeration. You want the pond to stratify in the winter, as the water at 39°F is the densest and will sink to the bottom. If the fish don't have a "warm" water refuge to go to, they will be stressed by the cold water (below 39°F). Typically we set up winter diffusers in 1/4 to 1/3 the pond depth, and make sure that there is open water all the way to shallow water, allowing anything that might go swimming a way to walk out of the pond instead of climbing up on the ice. You only need 10% of the pond surface area open during the winter for winter aeration. So leaving the summer diffuser in place and running it all winter long isn't the best thing to do for the health of the fish in the pond. We either have the pond owners move a diffuser or 2 to shallower water, or have both winter and summer diffusers in the pond, and they are switched via a ball valve on a manifold near the pond edge. If the aeration system is properly sized for your pond, having an algae bloom won't affect the fish during the summer, providing water visibility isn't less than 12" (use a secchi disk). Algae (both filamentous and phytoplankton) makes O2 during the day, but uses O2 at night or during very cloudy days. Having an aeration system bringing water to the pond surface all night long will help prevent a DO crash in the early morning hours before the sun starts the photosynthesis engine running again. Typically a system is sized to bring the complete pond water volume to the surface a minimum of once per day, and 2-3 times per day in eutrophic ponds. The study of Limnology, is not really my area of expertise. However, a spring flowing into a lake and/or pond, brings in fresh water and replenishes oxygen levels or at least stabilizes the oxygen levels. I remember growing-up never seeing any aerators in local ponds and lakes. I am certain you're correct with the data you printed here, as they may help support a population of fish, by providing oxygen in their operation. I've seen them in use at "Pay Lakes" and in garden ponds, so they may work fine when applied in this respect. The "Quality" of the water is also important, as adding chemicals for algae control, might cause problems if not used carefully.
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Post by donrog on Apr 25, 2015 15:48:10 GMT -5
I live on a lake with aerators with 8 diffusers spread out over 25 acres. Water temp. in summer 98 top to bottom. water gets dirty looking kills off all grass by july. algae gets bad lake smells I fish blue grass, dogwood,wabash,ohio river from the end of june on. Aetrators are good in winter when ice comes to keep water open. I have no say as to when to turn them on. they run from march30 thru. oct 30. Want to buy a place on a lake see me
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Post by esshup on Apr 26, 2015 7:34:40 GMT -5
Anywhere there is iced over ponds, the bottom diffusion aeration systems can be turned on and run 24/7 when surface water temps are in the mid 40's. If a new system is installed or a system is turned on and the water temps are higher than that, to be safe the system should be run for 15 minutes for the first day, 30 minutes the 2nd day, 1 hr the 3rd day, etc. until it's running 24/7. If you smell rotten eggs near the diffuser boil, stay at that run time per day until you don't smell it any more. Hydrogen Sulfide is what that smell is, and it's very toxic to fish. That's one one of the major contributing factors to a fish kill when a pond or lake turns over. The bottom anoxic water that is loaded with Hydrogen Sulfide (and other things) is mixed with the upper water, and it kills the fish.
By going with the slow start up, you minimize those chances. Once the upper water is in the 40's, a lot of mixing has already gone on naturally, and the chance of killing the fish by mixing the water with the aeration system is minimal.
98 degree water??? How does it get that hot?? I'm surprised there are many fish that live in it.
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