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Post by swilk on May 26, 2015 7:16:21 GMT -5
Already talks of some Republicans buckling and not wanting to do away with it but instead extending it if the SCOTUS decides the portion under review is illegal.
Will be an interesting next couple of months for sure .....
The SCOTUS can decide either way and it will not surprise me. The only thing that will surprise me is if the Republicans actually let the law die if that is what the court decides.
One thing is for sure .... with both houses of Congress under Republican control they have the ultimate power if the courts decide against the portion of the law. If the law lives on, in any form, they will own it as much as the Democrats do.
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Post by dbd870 on May 26, 2015 13:25:23 GMT -5
Agreed and I don't see the R's touching it
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Post by greyhair on May 26, 2015 21:48:58 GMT -5
It is called "be careful what you wish for, you might get it"
If SCOTUS actually kills the subsidies for Federal exchanges, millions who finally have insurance will lose it, and blame the Republicans. The insurance companies (which are doing quite well under Obamacare) will be thrown into complete chaos. Medical providers like hospitals and doctors will have to go back to dealing with uninsured patients. And finally, cost of insurance will jump dramatically for those who still have insurance.
All of this will be blamed on the Republicans, with a Presidential election on the horizon.
The R leadership knows this, which is why there is a little panic setting in, and sudden talk about how to put Obama care on life support or to extend it or delay the effects of the ruling.
To this date no conservative has detailed a workable, effective, affordable, practical alternative, and they need to hurry it up. That is a tall order with 14 or more people competing for the nomination.
So we will either be stuck with Obamacare, or face chaos in the health care universe, blamed on the conservatives.
One fine pickle we are in, eh?
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Post by drs on May 27, 2015 4:46:34 GMT -5
IF our elected officials of the Senate and Congress would have READ & UNDERSTOOD this "Obamacare" bill, it would never become law. Our Medical Industry is already in a mess and this Obamacare only makes things worse for everybody.
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Post by dbd870 on May 27, 2015 6:42:33 GMT -5
They understood enough - they want control of the industry and all the $$$ involved. They will come riding to the rescue with a full blown .gov healthcare system to fix this - as has been the goal from the beginning.
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Post by swilk on May 27, 2015 7:24:39 GMT -5
And now "they" is the Republicans ..... letting it die would be really, really painful for a whole lot of folks but it would honestly be the best thing. They wont do it though.
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Post by swilk on May 27, 2015 7:30:46 GMT -5
It is called "be careful what you wish for, you might get it" If SCOTUS actually kills the subsidies for Federal exchanges, millions who finally have insurance will lose it, and blame the Republicans. The insurance companies (which are doing quite well under Obamacare) will be thrown into complete chaos. Medical providers like hospitals and doctors will have to go back to dealing with uninsured patients. And finally, cost of insurance will jump dramatically for those who still have insurance. All of this will be blamed on the Republicans, with a Presidential election on the horizon. The R leadership knows this, which is why there is a little panic setting in, and sudden talk about how to put Obama care on life support or to extend it or delay the effects of the ruling. To this date no conservative has detailed a workable, effective, affordable, practical alternative, and they need to hurry it up. That is a tall order with 14 or more people competing for the nomination. So we will either be stuck with Obamacare, or face chaos in the health care universe, blamed on the conservatives. One fine pickle we are in, eh? Im not sure the many/most will blame the Republicans if the courts strike down this portion of it .... the Democrats drafted the legislation, the Democrats passed the legislation and the Democrats have been defending the legislation. And to be fair, to this date, no Democrat has a detailed a workable, effective, affordable, practical alternative either. The ACA certainly is not any of those things. Telling the American people to eat the turd sandwich drafted by the Democrats "because the Republicans cant fix a better turd sandwich" is something that only a politician would consider sane. |
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Post by greyhair on May 27, 2015 7:44:45 GMT -5
Those are good points Swilk - no one has come up with a workable, effective, affordable and practical plan, including the one we have now. But right or wrong I still think the R side will get the blame if a lot of people lose coverage.
I like that sandwich analogy
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Post by swilk on May 27, 2015 8:00:09 GMT -5
The biggest problem with politics is they are controlled by politicians ..... I bet if all members of Congress and their families were effected by the legislation, just like the rest of us Americans, it would be drafted a little better. There is no such thing as free so what they can and cant do is ultimately limited by "we the peoples" wallets but you can bet your butt if it directly effected them too they would be more concerned with good legislation instead of lobbying jobs after office or kickbacks while in office.
At least some of them would.
Seems to me the market itself is pretty good at lining itself out with a little nudging ..... eliminate any of the "across state lines" stuff and let insurers compete nation wide for their customers. No yearly or lifetime caps. No dropping coverage for any reason other than not paying the premium. Cap the out of pocket expense for all policy holders. Pre-existing conditions is the trickiest .... if people were honest I would say its easy but people arent always honest.
Anyway ... a couple pages of simple legislation and its done. No subsidies involved.
Change the tax code to a flat tax so that every single American has some skin in all the games and then we can talk about subsidizing healthcare.
Sounds simple dont it ....
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Post by dbd870 on May 27, 2015 8:32:17 GMT -5
And now "they" is the Republicans ..... letting it die would be really, really painful for a whole lot of folks but it would honestly be the best thing. They wont do it though. Agreed |
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Post by drs on May 27, 2015 8:41:02 GMT -5
They understood enough - they want control of the industry and all the $$$ involved. They will come riding to the rescue with a full blown .gov healthcare system to fix this - as has been the goal from the beginning. I am uncertain "They" understood anything about Obamacare. I am old enough remembering how the Medical Industry was before "they" past Medicare. I remember my Father saying that the Practice of Medicine is going to change for the worse, making more paper work & less time with patients, for all types of Doctors. Anything the Government "tries" to improve only becomes worse. <Period> This is one reason I didn't want to become a Physician, when I graduated College, back in 1974. |
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Post by chubwub on May 27, 2015 12:17:14 GMT -5
A whole lot of this would be fixed by putting a law in place making it illegal to deny preexisting conditions and going in and cleaning up the way hospitals overcharge patients. I've seen the way billing works and it's downright unethical sometimes. You get billed for things you didn't use, double charged for drugs...etc. If Obamacare insurance was worth a damn you wouldn't have to make a law forcing people to sign up. I know crappy insurance when I see it...and those plans they offered were absolute jokes. My insurance was so much better before all this junk passed. Now I'm constantly worried about having enough $$ in my HSA in case something bad happens.
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Post by greyhair on May 27, 2015 18:00:08 GMT -5
Chubwub - you lost me there at the end- if you are using a health savings account, how did Obamacare change that? Have you always been on a HSA? With an HSA, you put a certain amount away to cover the minor stuff, deductibles and copay, and then you have a Major Medical type policy to cover major things like hospital etc.
Where I used to work the administration offered an HSA, then jacked up the traditional insurance employee share so high that no one could afford it. This forced almost everyone to the HSA.
Results were definitely mixed. Younger healthier people did ok, but those with bigger families, health problems etc. took a beating.
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Post by drs on May 28, 2015 4:49:13 GMT -5
A whole lot of this would be fixed by putting a law in place making it illegal to deny preexisting conditions and going in and cleaning up the way hospitals overcharge patients. I've seen the way billing works and it's downright unethical sometimes. You get billed for things you didn't use, double charged for drugs...etc. If Obamacare insurance was worth a damn you wouldn't have to make a law forcing people to sign up. I know crappy insurance when I see it...and those plans they offered were absolute jokes. My insurance was so much better before all this junk passed. Now I'm constantly worried about having enough $$ in my HSA in case something bad happens. VERY GOOD POST!! chubwub... Yes, your idea of making it illegal to deny preexisting health issues is a good idea. As for the Medical Industry, the cost of Health care via Doctors, Hospitals, etc. has got out of hand. It is UNETHICAL what has happened to this once fine and honorable profession. My Father was still in Practice (OB-GYN) before his untimely death, at age 61; and I could see he was very unhappy with what was going on in his profession. He treated a lot of his patients, who were unable to afford proper treatment, FREE of charge. Most of these patients went ahead and paid for his services anyway, by the month. One of his patients, was still paying even after his death. My Family finally wrote them a note after receiving a payment that they need not send anymore money. Once again, I am glad I didn't choose to attend Medical School. I don't think I could handle what is going on now days. |
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Post by chubwub on May 28, 2015 5:14:32 GMT -5
Insurance companies would still make $$ out the a$$ even if they are forced to sign up undersirables. They would just need to do a better job recruiting young healthy people like me to sign up, which wouldn't be too hard if there were freaking jobs for all these people graduating with massive loan debts and into a horrible job market. None of these young people they so desperately need to pay into the system can even begin to pay.
That's another issue this country is starting to have imo. And now, you've got bright capable people stuck flipping burgers and being sucked into poverty. I'm not 100% sure what might improve all this but the government forgiving some of these loan debts might be a start. Also as unpopular as it is, raising the minimum wage to a liveable standard might be some help. The world needs ditch diggers, there are people who are perfectly content and good at being ditch diggers and I honestly don't see why allowing these people to support themselves comfortably on a low skill job is such a bad thing. Beats having me use my tax money to pay them to sit on their butts because they lose everything if they risk trying to get a job.
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Post by swilk on May 28, 2015 5:38:53 GMT -5
My problem with preexisting conditions is the healthy guy who decides he doesn't want to pay insurance premiums so he doesn't get insurance.... Has an auto accident, heart attack, needs a brain transplant ....whatever....and logs into his smartphone on the way to the hospital and pays for a policy.
We the people are a shady bunch....you know similar would happen.
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Post by swilk on May 28, 2015 5:41:18 GMT -5
I look at a minimum raise increase as a pay cut for everyone else. Those on it get a raise but the cost of the goods and services they touch go up to compensate....their cost of living moves up with their wages but gets more expensive for those not getting a pay increase.
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Post by steiny on May 28, 2015 6:26:56 GMT -5
Plenty of well paying jobs out there much better than flipping burgers for any bright capable people out there. Might not be in your exact chosen field, may require a little travel or relocation, and you're going to have to be drug free, but the jobs are there. Skilled trades are starving for employees at wage of $15 per hour and up. The world does need ditch diggers. They do it with machinery and equipment these days and are well paid for it.
The minimum wage jobs were never intended to be a career or something to support a family on. These jobs are for kids to earn after school and summer money, a second job for one member of a couple to earn extra money, part time work for empty nesters, retired folks, folks with minor disabilities or handicaps, etc. Any able bodied, intelligent working age person claiming to be "stuck" in a minimum wage job isn't trying very hard to get themselves "unstuck".
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Post by drs on May 28, 2015 6:59:10 GMT -5
Plenty of well paying jobs out there much better than flipping burgers for any bright capable people out there. Might not be in your exact chosen field, may require a little travel or relocation, and you're going to have to be drug free, but the jobs are there. Skilled trades are starving for employees at wage of $15 per hour and up. The world does need ditch diggers. They do it with machinery and equipment these days and are well paid for it. The minimum wage jobs were never intended to be a career or something to support a family on. These jobs are for kids to earn after school and summer money, a second job for one member of a couple to earn extra money, part time work for empty nesters, retired folks, folks with minor disabilities or handicaps, etc. Any able bodied, intelligent working age person claiming to be "stuck" in a minimum wage job isn't trying very hard to get themselves "unstuck". Good Post, steiny!! Yes, there are plenty of good jobs paying well for those willing to work hard. However it seems that younger people, fresh out of college aren't willing to work that hard or are too lazy to look for suitable work. They are content in taking low paying "burger-flipping" jobs and living with Mom & Pop. They then spend endless hours "texting" and playing around on their computers or I-phone thingies, instead trying to better themselves. Funny, you mentioned that "The world needs Ditch Diggers too" In fact, where I use to live in Northern Vanderburgh County in McCutchanville, a so called Ditch Digger, developed two large areas into Subdivisions, with homes averaging around $2 Million Dollars. He once told me that this was pretty a good accomplishment for a "Ditch Digger". |
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Post by chubwub on May 28, 2015 9:28:21 GMT -5
Chubwub - you lost me there at the end- if you are using a health savings account, how did Obamacare change that? Have you always been on a HSA? With an HSA, you put a certain amount away to cover the minor stuff, deductibles and copay, and then you have a Major Medical type policy to cover major things like hospital etc. Where I used to work the administration offered an HSA, then jacked up the traditional insurance employee share so high that no one could afford it. This forced almost everyone to the HSA. Results were definitely mixed. Younger healthier people did ok, but those with bigger families, health problems etc. took a beating. This is almost exactly what happened to us. I used to get EXCELLENT health care through my employer, $400 deductible and 25$ co-pays, 75$ emergency room co-pays, huge network... just awesome and affordable. It covered lots of things too. It was pleasant and nice to go to the doctor, they got paid on time, I got taken care of. My employers were forced to change things because of Obamacare to stay compliant and the new plan was 10 times crappier and expensive then what we had in the past. Like many others I was forced onto this crappy HSA plan, which is complete junk compared to what I had before. Thank God I am young and healthy. It won't be a problem when I get married though, my fiance's insurance is better. How embarrassing that Wal-mart insurance is better then a place that does medical research. Say what you want about Wal-mart but if you can get into the system... lol. Now I think twice before going to the doctor for treatable things which could be easily resolved and wait until absolutely necessary before forcing myself to use that money. Not sure this is the mindset America needs to have for "healthy initiative." The insurance had it right the first time around with preventive medicine and selling $100 exams to prevent $20,000 diseases. |
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