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Post by jimstc on Jun 27, 2015 16:38:55 GMT -5
I am real interested to know what you compound bow hunters are using for deer and why? I was reading Bowhunting World, 2015's Best Bow Gear. After I got through 14 pages of ads the gear "reviews" got started. It prompted me to think about what I am using and what others are using. I am using the Rage mechanicals and recently bought some Slick Trick Magnum fixed blades to test. Thanks for any responses.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jun 27, 2015 17:29:03 GMT -5
I'm absolutely confident that anyone put in the right place will do the trick. Personally, I stick with a fixed blade and want to focus more on arrow placement than I do what is on the tip.
Keep in mind that Jon Snow knows nothing.
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Post by swilk on Jun 27, 2015 17:55:20 GMT -5
Like said....a field point through both lungs will kill a deer. Personally, I use the original Rage 2 blade.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 27, 2015 18:10:11 GMT -5
Personally I like the NAP Spitfires. Pretty well same POI as field points..
Since my crossbow arrows have 80 grain inserts I shoot 100 grain broad heads.
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Post by jimstc on Jun 27, 2015 18:13:48 GMT -5
Yep, accuracy is the ticket. Guess that is why I shoot 20-60 arrows per day 4-5 days per week. 20, 30, and 40 yards. Thanks for the responses. Just trying to learn from the collective experience of this forum. Always trying to learn.
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Post by trophyparadise on Jun 27, 2015 18:17:16 GMT -5
I am trying something different this year. In the past, I have shot nearly every style of broadhead out there. Muzzy, rage, grim reaper, rocket meatseekers, rocket steelheads, NAP spitfire, bloodrunners, killzones, and thunderheads, Magnus buzzcuts, g5 montecs, solid, and a few no name Wal-Mart heads. The first time I shot an expandable, I loved the arrow flight over fixed heads. I believed that rear deploying heads like rage were a bowhunters dream....however personally I had penetration problems with rage heads (2 different deer hit broadside under 20yds behind shoulder out of a 70lb. Bow that the arrow did not leave an exit hole). I then tried the rocket meatseeker 3 blade as I liked it's small in flight profile. Those things flew like darts...60-70 yards dead on with my field points. The year I shot them I lost 4 deer, including a 150 class buck, the only 4 I've ever lost. I know for a fact on at least one of the 4 my broadhead didn't open, as the rubber band was still around the blades when I recovered the arrow. I swore I'd never shoot an expandable again. After a lot of trials, I found a fixed blade that my setup shot very well. For the past 2 years I shot NAP thunderhead edge heads. I could group right with my field points out to 50 yds. I think the offset blades help with this. I've killed 13 deer with this setup and gotten pass throughs on every one. I was still not totally happy with how they shot though...seemed some arrows shot better than others, which I did not like, and my grouping was not as good if I used lighted nocks...which I like. I spent some time researching and learned about spine matching & indexing your arrow shafts. In theory spine matched arrows should all shoot the same and are much easier to tune for broadheads. That means if you take the extra time (& money) to have it done you should be able to shoot any quality broadhead you want and have it group the same as your field tip. I also am trying a different way of fletching. Helical fletching is very popular, with a lot of folks shooting pretty aggressive helical vanes (4 degrees or more). The thought is the arrow spins faster...true, but it also creates more wind drag, affecting trajectory. My personal opinion is that aggressive helical fletching is a way to compensate for a poorly tuned bow. A perfectly tuned bow should be able to group a fletched arrow and a bare shaft together at 20yds. My bow was not perfectly tuned. I had it retuned and had a batch of arrows made up that are spine matched & indexed, with 56gr brass inserts giving me 18 percent FOC. I had them fletched at a 1/8th degree instead of helical. The very same arrows I have been shooting for years grouped tighter and shot about 4"higher at 40yds due to the lessened wind drag, so my pin gap has tightened. So far I have tried every broadhead I own and they all fly the same except one....I've thrown it away. At this point I'm not sure what I will be shooting in the fall...but with the arrow flight advantage that mechanicals normally give negated it will be a fixed blade of some sort as they are much better at penetrating bone in marginal hits. I'm leaning towards the new magnus black hornet serrated heads. I like the design of them a lot, and they have a lifetime guarantee. The solid heads I really like too. Likely I will carry a few different ones this year and see what the wound channels look like and decide on one based on that. I can't wait to find out though! Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=852914431431752
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Post by jimstc on Jun 27, 2015 18:35:30 GMT -5
WOW!! Trophy that is one heck of an explanation. I have read it four times. Will you please talk more about spine matching and indexing? I was talking to Paul at Backyard Archery (Noblesville) about helical fletching. He is a guy I really trust to tell me the truth and his comments are the same as yours. He has run his pro shop for over 20 years. His standard arrows are 2 degrees. I group real well with field points but am still learning about broadheads. Thanks
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Post by scrub-buster on Jun 27, 2015 18:36:50 GMT -5
Knapped stone
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jun 27, 2015 18:38:46 GMT -5
Yep, accuracy is the ticket. Guess that is why I shoot 20-60 arrows per day 4-5 days per week. 20, 30, and 40 yards. Thanks for the responses. Just trying to learn from the collective experience of this forum. Always trying to learn. Man, with that much practice, you don't need to worry about what's on the tip. You da man Jim
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 27, 2015 18:39:31 GMT -5
What's that red stuff all over it?
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jun 27, 2015 18:39:38 GMT -5
I am trying something different this year. In the past, I have shot nearly every style of broadhead out there. Muzzy, rage, grim reaper, rocket meatseekers, rocket steelheads, NAP spitfire, bloodrunners, killzones, and thunderheads, Magnus buzzcuts, g5 montecs, solid, and a few no name Wal-Mart heads. The first time I shot an expandable, I loved the arrow flight over fixed heads. I believed that rear deploying heads like rage were a bowhunters dream....however personally I had penetration problems with rage heads (2 different deer hit broadside under 20yds behind shoulder out of a 70lb. Bow that the arrow did not leave an exit hole). I then tried the rocket meatseeker 3 blade as I liked it's small in flight profile. Those things flew like darts...60-70 yards dead on with my field points. The year I shot them I lost 4 deer, including a 150 class buck, the only 4 I've ever lost. I know for a fact on at least one of the 4 my broadhead didn't open, as the rubber band was still around the blades when I recovered the arrow. I swore I'd never shoot an expandable again. After a lot of trials, I found a fixed blade that my setup shot very well. For the past 2 years I shot NAP thunderhead edge heads. I could group right with my field points out to 50 yds. I think the offset blades help with this. I've killed 13 deer with this setup and gotten pass throughs on every one. I was still not totally happy with how they shot though...seemed some arrows shot better than others, which I did not like, and my grouping was not as good if I used lighted nocks...which I like. I spent some time researching and learned about spine matching & indexing your arrow shafts. In theory spine matched arrows should all shoot the same and are much easier to tune for broadheads. That means if you take the extra time (& money) to have it done you should be able to shoot any quality broadhead you want and have it group the same as your field tip. I also am trying a different way of fletching. Helical fletching is very popular, with a lot of folks shooting pretty aggressive helical vanes (4 degrees or more). The thought is the arrow spins faster...true, but it also creates more wind drag, affecting trajectory. My personal opinion is that aggressive helical fletching is a way to compensate for a poorly tuned bow. A perfectly tuned bow should be able to group a fletched arrow and a bare shaft together at 20yds. My bow was not perfectly tuned. I had it retuned and had a batch of arrows made up that are spine matched & indexed, with 56gr brass inserts giving me 18 percent FOC. I had them fletched at a 1/8th degree instead of helical. The very same arrows I have been shooting for years grouped tighter and shot about 4"higher at 40yds due to the lessened wind drag, so my pin gap has tightened. So far I have tried every broadhead I own and they all fly the same except one....I've thrown it away. At this point I'm not sure what I will be shooting in the fall...but with the arrow flight advantage that mechanicals normally give negated it will be a fixed blade of some sort as they are much better at penetrating bone in marginal hits. I'm leaning towards the new magnus black hornet serrated heads. I like the design of them a lot, and they have a lifetime guarantee. The solid heads I really like too. Likely I will carry a few different ones this year and see what the wound channels look like and decide on one based on that. I can't wait to find out though! Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=852914431431752Man, you need some paragraphs for the eyes of this old man to read your posts.
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Post by scrub-buster on Jun 27, 2015 18:40:35 GMT -5
What's that red stuff all over it? Evidence I might use some single bevel band saw blade points again this year. I changed my design up which should give me better penetration. I'll be using a 3 blade muzzy with my crossbow.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jun 27, 2015 18:41:03 GMT -5
Knapped stone I just want to know if you jumped out of a tree and shoved it through the heart. That is really cool. You're the guy with the pointy stick that I've been talking about.
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Post by jimstc on Jun 27, 2015 18:50:39 GMT -5
Yep, accuracy is the ticket. Guess that is why I shoot 20-60 arrows per day 4-5 days per week. 20, 30, and 40 yards. Thanks for the responses. Just trying to learn from the collective experience of this forum. Always trying to learn. Man, with that much practice, you don't need to worry about what's on the tip. You da man Jim You are too kind Jon....
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Post by jimstc on Jun 27, 2015 18:54:12 GMT -5
Knapped stone Scrub, how does that fly? What does it weigh and what are you using to shoot it? My neighbor has buckets full of these. Hmmm.....
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Post by trophyparadise on Jun 27, 2015 19:11:52 GMT -5
WOW!! Trophy that is one heck of an explanation. I have read it four times. Will you please talk more about spine matching and indexing? I was talking to Paul at Backyard Archery (Noblesville) about helical fletching. He is a guy I really trust to tell me the truth and his comments are the same as yours. He has run his pro shop for over 20 years. His standard arrows are 2 degrees. I group real well with field points but am still learning about broadheads. Thanks All carbon arrows have a seam down the shaft. The orientation of the seam when the arrow is on the rest will affect arrow flight. for the best and most consistent arrow flight, when the arrow sits on the rest the seam should be either straight up or straight down. When the seam points at an angle to either side it creates a "lean" in the arrow flight...very subtle, but this is why at 40 yards a lot of shooters arrows don't group the same. Often there will be a couple arrows that seem to shoot better than others...these are the ones that by pure luck had the fletchings installed with the seam up or down. The other arrows spines don't match. Having arrows spine matched means the seam is identified and marked so that all the fletchings are installed on the exact same point of each arrow, creating consistent arrow flight. Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=852914431431752
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jun 27, 2015 19:13:31 GMT -5
Man, with that much practice, you don't need to worry about what's on the tip. You da man Jim You are too kind Jon.... I think you are a perfectionist and don't have anything to worry about. I must admit that I like gadgets, and like to see all the new stuff coming out. I've thought about the rage, because of the wide path and thinking that it might catch an artery that my fixed blade would not. I can drive myself crazy thinking about stuff. I've only shot two deer. The first one bled like crazy, but the bolt did not go where I was aiming. It looks like I took a frontal shot, but I didn't. I bet the bolt moved a foot from where I was aiming. The fletching caught a twig and yanked the head around. The deer was close to the bush or I would have totally missed. I got one lung and an artery. If not for that artery, I probably would have never found him. I would not take this shot today; I just got lucky. This is why shot selection is more important to me now than what is on the tip.
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Post by jimstc on Jun 27, 2015 19:14:53 GMT -5
Thank you, Trophy. A substantial learning leap for me!
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Post by trophyparadise on Jun 27, 2015 19:15:40 GMT -5
I used to live a mile from backyard archery in Hague rd...only went in there once though. A 2 degree is less aggressive than a helical fletch, the ones I'm shooting now are even less aggressive than that. The more twist in the fletching, the slower the arrow. The trade-off is forgiveness. The better your bow and arrows are tuned, the less twist you can get away with Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=852914431431752
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Post by jimstc on Jun 27, 2015 19:30:47 GMT -5
I think you are a perfectionist and don't have anything to worry about. I must admit that I like gadgets, and like to see all the new stuff coming out. I've thought about the rage, because of the wide path and thinking that it might catch an artery that my fixed blade would not. I can drive myself crazy thinking about stuff. I've only shot two deer. The first one bled like crazy, but the bolt did not go where I was aiming. It looks like I took a frontal shot, but I didn't. I bet the bolt moved a foot from where I was aiming. The fletching caught a twig and yanked the head around. The deer was close to the bush or I would have totally missed. I got one lung and an artery. If not for that artery, I probably would have never found him. I would not take this shot today; I just got lucky. This is why shot selection is more important to me now than what is on the tip. Jon, I agree. I read two studies comparing fixed to mechanical accuracy. www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2014/11/broadhead-test-fixed-blades-vs-mechanicals and one done at a military reserve, can't find the address for that one. Very small differences.
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