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Post by swilk on Jul 31, 2015 9:00:53 GMT -5
I watched the Planned Parenthood video and her mention of a "Lamborghini" was a joke ... a joke in poor taste but a joke nonetheless. I have seen several people mention and heard several people talk about how "they" dont talk about Planned Parenthood but I cant figure out what they mean. I have seen lots and lots and lots of coverage about the Planned Parenthood thing. I just looked at the ultra liberal MSNBC.com and there are several articles covering the recent string of videos with Planned Parenthood. You should know that new networks like MSNBC or any other "left-leaning" networks; will ALWAYS place a "Liberal spin" on anything, including the killing of that lion and Plan Parenthood. You're correct it was a rather poor joke showing that this individual is NOT qualified, and is just a plain murderer. Once, my late Father, an OB-GYN Physician, received a call once, at dinner time, from someone wanting to know if he would do an abortion. My Father told this individual that he was against performing abortions <PERIOD>. Also told the person not to call him at his home again. I dont think a single penny of taxpayer money should go to Planned Parenthood .... and it has nothing to do with the abortion thing. The legality of abortion was settled a long time ago but I cant find anywhere in the Constitution where it says I have to help pay for the healthcare of my fellow Americans.
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Post by maddog on Jul 31, 2015 9:07:07 GMT -5
I've tried to stay out of this, though I have been following it on three different hunting forums. I have hunted in Zimbabwe, four years ago. It's a wonderful country, full of very nice people. That being said, their gov't, and a LOT of their "officials" are worse than the beaurocrats in this country! I don't know if Palmer knowingly was a part of the whole sham. His background, certainly isn't doing him any favors[Wisc. bear episode]. However, I do have to side with the fact that as a hunter, when you book a safari, you do assume that permits, quotas, hunting area, etc. is all handled by the professional hunter/safari company you book with. I personally think the extradition thing is BS. They haven't even charged/incarcerated the farm owner or the ph, to date. This whole thing has so many holes in it, no way is it holding water. Trust me, there were officials over there on the take, to harvest ole Cecil......
maddog
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Post by span870 on Jul 31, 2015 10:29:39 GMT -5
Did he break the law? Are you sure? Willing to bet your life on it sure? He hasnt been charged with anything as far as I can tell. If he broke the law wouldnt he be charged? There are so many holes in this story it isnt funny ..... Article states he didn't have a permit. If he didn't have a permit he broke the law and poached it, plain and simple. If you aren't knowingly breaking the law, why destroy the collar? Bet my life on it??? What does that have to do with anything? I would assume you are then willing to be your life he is innocent. Man some people take things to an extreme. Bring back the gallows. Let's hang the person who stated a wrong opinion. Smh.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Jul 31, 2015 11:53:53 GMT -5
Like some others have said, I'm reserving judgment until all the facts are out. I read an article that said he DID have all the proper permits to kill a male lion where the darned cat was killed. Who knows.
If he had a permit, and the lion left the park, I don't see it as any different than shooting a deer that wanders across a property line.
Maybe he did do something wrong, but I haven't seen any real evidence presented yet that he did..
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Post by swilk on Jul 31, 2015 12:25:50 GMT -5
Why would you assume that span? Did you read all my posts in this thread?
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jul 31, 2015 13:00:22 GMT -5
I have not jumped on this as I sure don't have enough information. It can still be good to talk about these things and learn... even about ourselves and what makes us tick... and explode.
Baiting the Lion out of the protected area doesn't offend me. Hunters do it often. I hope to do it this year as I consider the deer on my neighbors property protected from me. LOL I want to put in a food plot and bait them on my side of the fence.
It is easy to jump on a band wagon for anything when we don't have enough information or when we do and hits a soft spot. I'm happy that he got a big lion if that is what he wanted and really didn't break the law by luring him out. I'm hoping it wasn't illegal. I wouldn't have been able to tell by looking at him that he was who he was.
The 50K is relative when put into percentages. That could very well be as practical for him as me buying a new shotgun. I'm happy for him that he went to school to get that lifestyle. Personally, I want to stay out of Africa.
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Post by span870 on Jul 31, 2015 13:46:59 GMT -5
Okay Swilk, he did not have a permit to be hunting lion in that area according the the landowner, they shot a lion with a tracking collar which I have read is illegal, they destroyed the collar and didn't notify the proper authorities that they killed a collared animal. If they did nothing wrong, why destroy the collar. Then the outfitter stated they left the collar at the bait sight, after tracking the lion for dang near two days??? So they took the collar off and took it back to the original bait sight. And destroyed the collar. Why would one do that if not to hide where eventually the lion was killed?
Again it is HIS responsibility to know the laws. Ignorance is no defense. I go with an outfitter and break the law, dnr doesn't care that I didn't know. If you have ever hunted out west f&g will tell you the same.
When you pay an outfitter $50,000 to kill a lion, that outfitter is going to do whatever it takes to make you happy. They got caught. Should be be required to go back to answer questions? Absolutely. If he did no wrong, why not?
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Post by swilk on Jul 31, 2015 14:09:26 GMT -5
You put an awful lot of trust in media reports .....
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jul 31, 2015 14:13:37 GMT -5
Okay Swilk, he did not have a permit to be hunting lion in that area according the the landowner, they shot a lion with a tracking collar which I have read is illegal, they destroyed the collar and didn't notify the proper authorities that they killed a collared animal. If they did nothing wrong, why destroy the collar. Then the outfitter stated they left the collar at the bait sight, after tracking the lion for dang near two days??? So they took the collar off and took it back to the original bait sight. And destroyed the collar. Why would one do that if not to hide where eventually the lion was killed? Again it is HIS responsibility to know the laws. Ignorance is no defense. I go with an outfitter and break the law, dnr doesn't care that I didn't know. If you have ever hunted out west f&g will tell you the same. When you pay an outfitter $50,000 to kill a lion, that outfitter is going to do whatever it takes to make you happy. They got caught. Should be be required to go back to answer questions? Absolutely. If he did no wrong, why not? If all this is correct; he was wrong. I would think anyone could have seen the tracking collar unless he was charging. It sounds that he is not above such things, but this is not always an indicator. It wouldn't surprise me at all that a highly paid guide would say shoot, especially in Africa. I wouldn't advise anyone to bribe a Game Warden around here, but they are human too.
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Post by swilk on Jul 31, 2015 14:19:37 GMT -5
See a collar. At night. On an animal with a big shaggy mane.
I can see where a person might not see it.
Do a google image search for Cecil and see if you can spot the collar in any of the photos that come up.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jul 31, 2015 14:22:18 GMT -5
See a collar. At night. On an animal with a big shaggy mane. I can see where a person might not see it. Do a google image search for Cecil and see if you can spot the collar in any of the photos that come up. See, there I go again. I didn't know it was shot at night. Excellent point.
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Post by swilk on Jul 31, 2015 14:29:42 GMT -5
May have been shot at night ...... who knows what to believe. Did you look at the images of Cecil? Can you spot a collar even in the bright daytime still pictures?
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Post by kevin1 on Jul 31, 2015 15:08:00 GMT -5
I hate it that the news latched onto it. Watching Jimmy Kimmel cry during his segment over this lion was just ridiculousy over the top. I made the mistake of trying to tell people that we can't toss away all hunting just because this guy screwed up. So far I've had my weight ridiculed, been called a sociopath, ignorant and been told I don't believe in conservation because I hunt among other things. I managed to get my own personal lynch mob in a matter of minutes. 13 years old is freaking ancient for a lion though, they usually don't make it past 12, so I was a little skeptical about the whole thing about how he was in his prime. While it too bad that that particular Lion was taken by a Hunter who had a proper permit to trophy hunt a lion. Yet, one doesn't hear about the goings-on with Plan Parenthood with their selling body parts and organs from aborted fetuses for a profit. None of the major News programs (MSNBC, NBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, (that are left-of-center), mention very little about this shameful act committed by Plan Parenthood. It's all been about that Lion, while NOTHING is even discussed or discussed very little about the "Trophy" Automobiles and fancy homes these "Leaches" of Plan Parenthood will receive from profits from the sale of aborted human body parts. The US and Zimbabwe have had a reciprocal extradition agreement in place since 2005, the government of Zimbabwe has made a formal request for extradition, and the US government has already stated that they will extradite him once he is located. The USF&W Service is also reviewing the case for Lacey Act violations.
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Post by span870 on Jul 31, 2015 16:48:41 GMT -5
May have been shot at night ...... who knows what to believe. Did you look at the images of Cecil? Can you spot a collar even in the bright daytime still pictures? I'm going by what was reported, by the guide, you are speculatng on what MAY have happened.
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Post by maddog on Jul 31, 2015 17:01:23 GMT -5
Have any of you boys even been there? I'm sick and tired of "experts" calling out this man when they don't know about what they're talking about. I'm not saying he isn't guilty, but the media, doesn't care, and most of you dudes are going off on crap that none of you know about. Give me a break...
maddog
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Post by schall53 on Jul 31, 2015 17:05:28 GMT -5
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Post by swilk on Jul 31, 2015 17:17:47 GMT -5
May have been shot at night ...... who knows what to believe. Did you look at the images of Cecil? Can you spot a collar even in the bright daytime still pictures? I'm going by what was reported, by the guide, you are speculatng on what MAY have happened. Nah....just what I read. Thats why i said who knows what to believe. You seem to be taking this personal for some reason. Breathe man. Just breathe.....
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Post by swilk on Jul 31, 2015 17:46:05 GMT -5
While it too bad that that particular Lion was taken by a Hunter who had a proper permit to trophy hunt a lion. Yet, one doesn't hear about the goings-on with Plan Parenthood with their selling body parts and organs from aborted fetuses for a profit. None of the major News programs (MSNBC, NBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, (that are left-of-center), mention very little about this shameful act committed by Plan Parenthood. It's all been about that Lion, while NOTHING is even discussed or discussed very little about the "Trophy" Automobiles and fancy homes these "Leaches" of Plan Parenthood will receive from profits from the sale of aborted human body parts. The US and Zimbabwe have had a reciprocal extradition agreement in place since 2005, the government of Zimbabwe has made a formal request for extradition, and the US government has already stated that they will extradite him once he is located. The USF&W Service is also reviewing the case for Lacey Act violations. Curious where you got this information? Everything that I've read up to now, a couple of hours after you posted this, says a representative of his has contacted Fish and Wildlife but I've read nothing that says a decision has been made on his extradition.
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Post by duff on Jul 31, 2015 17:58:45 GMT -5
What are we debating anyways? The media, the ability to hunt, the imagine this story gives hunters, or just trolling for some drama?
I think there are a few of each here. Keep it clean guys this is a family site and cussing around the sensor is not permitted either.
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Post by trapperdave on Jul 31, 2015 18:19:45 GMT -5
i cant stand to read thru all the drivel on the articles about it, could someone tell me just what he did wrong? Was he not hunting legally with legal weapons and baits in a legal area? Is it some sacred lion? Really? It would be like people being outraged because I shot some buck that came into my woods from the "sanctuary" across the road. am I missing here?
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