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Post by M4Madness on Mar 2, 2016 19:18:55 GMT -5
I remember back in 2007 when the DNR proposed "pistol caliber" rifles for deer hunting that many screamed bloody gore about how everyone was going to get shot. After 9 seasons of them being legal, I don't know of any shootings involving them, yet there have been several involving shotguns.
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Post by arlowe13 on Mar 2, 2016 19:35:03 GMT -5
In the last several years we have been using 358 Hoosier, 444, 4570, 35 Rem, ect. Please show me the data of how many accidents and deaths we have had. "The Tombstone science". After all we do agree these are HPR's. So how many folks have been using theses HPR do you think? Post the data.... I posted this earlier in the thread...the amount of rifles being used has steadily increased as the amount of shotguns has steadily decreased at almost the exact same rate. Yet, hunting-related accidents continue to decline and you are now more likely to get injured BOWLING than while hunting (source: www.nssf.org/pdf/research/iir_injurystatistics2013.pdf)There's your data.
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Post by greghopper on Mar 2, 2016 19:41:47 GMT -5
So how many folks have been using theses HPR do you think? Post the data.... I posted this earlier in the thread...the amount of rifles being used has steadily increased as the amount of shotguns has steadily decreased at almost the exact same rate. Yet, hunting-related accidents continue to decline and you are now more likely to get injured BOWLING than while hunting (source: www.nssf.org/pdf/research/iir_injurystatistics2013.pdf)There's your data. So how many of these rifles are HPR??? That is the subject in question...apples and oranges! So all rifles in your data are HPR???
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Post by arlowe13 on Mar 2, 2016 19:48:40 GMT -5
So how many of these rifles are HPR??? That is the subject in question...apples and oranges! So all rifles in your data are HPR??? What do you classify as a HPR that would not fall under "Rifle" when selected during check-in? The 458 SOCOM "rifle" is only a couple hundred FPS slower than my 178gr 308s... The 450 Bushmaster is even faster... A rifle is a rifle. Putting "high powered" in front of it is merely relative.
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Post by greghopper on Mar 2, 2016 19:52:25 GMT -5
Lol....so everyone in the state now is using HPR??? Come on....
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Post by arlowe13 on Mar 2, 2016 19:59:00 GMT -5
Lol....so everyone in the state now is using HPR??? Come on.... I didn't even come close to saying that, but OK... I believe I said that everyone that selects "Rifle" when checking in their deer is probably using just that...a Rifle. Which, when you look at the table and graph I posted, is steadily increasing. More and more states are starting to allow rifles that have historically disallowed them, but hunting safety is continuing to improve.
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Post by greghopper on Mar 2, 2016 20:06:49 GMT -5
Lol....so everyone in the state now is using HPR??? Come on.... I didn't even come close to saying that, but OK... I believe I said that everyone that selects "Rifle" when checking in their deer is probably using just that...a Rifle. Which, when you look at the table and graph I posted, is steadily increasing. More and more states are starting to allow rifles that have historically disallowed them, but hunting safety is continuing to improve. Well where talking HPR here.... Post that data and info if you will..... Let's stay on the subject "HPR "
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Post by arlowe13 on Mar 2, 2016 20:09:44 GMT -5
Well where talking HPR here.... Post that data and info if you will..... Let's stay on the subject "HPR " Alright...define "HPR".
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Post by M4Madness on Mar 2, 2016 20:11:09 GMT -5
All I know is that people didn't suddenly get shot when PCR's were introduced, nor will they if HPR's are. The bad thing is if a single person is shot 10 years from now with a HPR, people will still say, "I told you it would happen." Lol! Hunting accidents occur regardless of firearm type, and sadly, they will continue occurring.
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Post by greghopper on Mar 2, 2016 20:11:32 GMT -5
Read the first post in this thread..... Start there...
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Post by greghopper on Mar 2, 2016 20:14:18 GMT -5
All I know is that people didn't suddenly get shot when PCR's were introduced, nor will they if HPR's are. The bad thing is if a single person is shot 10 years from now with a HPR, people will still say, "I told you it would happen." Lol! Hunting accidents occur regardless of firearm type, and sadly, they will continue occurring. Exactly..... Nor did the accident rate go down magically either when PCR where allowed!!
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Post by arlowe13 on Mar 2, 2016 20:14:51 GMT -5
Read the first post in this thread..... Start there... You mean where Jack interjected the term "high power rifles" when the bill has no mention of the term "high power". I have never seen a formal definition of what designates a rifle from a "high power" rifle.
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Post by arlowe13 on Mar 2, 2016 20:16:30 GMT -5
All I know is that people didn't suddenly get shot when PCR's were introduced, nor will they if HPR's are. The bad thing is if a single person is shot 10 years from now with a HPR, people will still say, "I told you it would happen." Lol! Hunting accidents occur regardless of firearm type, and sadly, they will continue occurring. Exactly..... Nor did the accident rate go down magically either when PCR where allowed!! Who said allowing rifles would make the accident rate go down? Talk about apples and oranges... I think you are missing the point...DESPITE increased use in rifles, the accident rate has continue to decrease. Therefore, you can scientifically deduce that the decrease in accident rate is INDEPENDENT from the types of weapons used.
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Post by greghopper on Mar 2, 2016 20:19:12 GMT -5
Read the first post in this thread..... Start there... You mean where Jack interjected the term "high power rifles" when the bill has no mention of the term "high power". I have never seen a formal definition of what designates a rifle from a "high power" rifle. So I am guessing you didn't read the bill that explains ....
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Post by arlowe13 on Mar 2, 2016 20:20:36 GMT -5
You mean where Jack interjected the term "high power rifles" when the bill has no mention of the term "high power". I have never seen a formal definition of what designates a rifle from a "high power" rifle. So I am guessing you didn't read the bill that explains .... LOL ok greg...now I believe you're just messing with me.
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Post by greghopper on Mar 2, 2016 20:21:04 GMT -5
Exactly..... Nor did the accident rate go down magically either when PCR where allowed!! Who said allowing rifles would make the accident rate go down? Talk about apples and oranges... I think you are missing the point...DESPITE increased use in rifles, the accident rate has continue to decrease. Therefore, you can scientifically deduce that the decrease in accident rate is INDEPENDENT from the types of weapons used. So explain how rifles or HPR done that ! !
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Post by M4Madness on Mar 2, 2016 20:21:45 GMT -5
All I know is that people didn't suddenly get shot when PCR's were introduced, nor will they if HPR's are. The bad thing is if a single person is shot 10 years from now with a HPR, people will still say, "I told you it would happen." Lol! Hunting accidents occur regardless of firearm type, and sadly, they will continue occurring. Exactly..... Nor did the accident rate go down magically either when PCR where allowed!! Overall, accidental shootings while hunting and sport shooting are declining annually (and the National Shooting Sports Foundation data does verify that), but they'll never be reduced to zero. There are just too many factors in play. We do know 100% that shotguns are responsible for over two times the number of deaths as ALL rifle calibers combined.
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Post by arlowe13 on Mar 2, 2016 20:22:26 GMT -5
Who said allowing rifles would make the accident rate go down? Talk about apples and oranges... I think you are missing the point...DESPITE increased use in rifles, the accident rate has continue to decrease. Therefore, you can scientifically deduce that the decrease in accident rate is INDEPENDENT from the types of weapons used. So explain how rifles or HPR done that ! ! I swear you're not even reading my posts or just blatantly ignoring half of what I wrote...
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Post by greghopper on Mar 2, 2016 20:26:01 GMT -5
Shot guns with slugs or shot guns period??
Most small game hunting is done with shotguns..... Just saying!
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Post by M4Madness on Mar 2, 2016 20:31:05 GMT -5
Shot guns with slugs or shot guns period?? Most small game hunting is done with shotguns..... Just saying! The data doesn't differentiate between slugs and shot, just as it does not break down rifles by caliber. Greg, what Alex is trying to say is that even though rifles are increasingly being used, accidents are decreasing. He's not saying that rifles are the CAUSE of the decrease.
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