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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Feb 2, 2016 22:11:09 GMT -5
OK, please, no more percentages unless accompanied by the appropriate reference link. It's about 73.6% annoying to about 86.2% of 100% everybody with 10.7% brain capacity. Hunters are by nature killers. Not all hunts result in a death, not all hunters are concerned with making a kill, but trying to segregate the killers from the true hunters doesn't exactly work. Do some people spend money to "take the easy way out"? Absolutely. If you think about it, every hunter that has put in a food plot, bought high quality optics, or use high performance hunting equipment has spent money to take the easy way out. The point we are right now is not trying to determine if these places should or shouldn't exist. They already exist. We simply need to decide what government department should be handling their oversight and allowing that department the time and funding to actually do the job. Hey, this thread will never be locked out if you keep talking like this.
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Post by nfalls116 on Feb 3, 2016 4:08:02 GMT -5
You go out in the woods and are unsuccessful and blame it on canned hunts and and leasers. Ohhhh you lease ground but are against canned hunts because they are all abiut the money and antlers??? Nobody buys a 2000$ lease with hopes of filling their freezer. They are hoping for a boone and crockett buck to walk by. you go on the river and can't catch fish and you blame it on the commercial fisherman. Get over the whining and worry about refining your own style. this is like people complaining about illegal immigrants coming and "taking all of our jobs" Or gay marriage ruining the foundation of marriage. My wedding vows mean the same to me as they did before gay marriage was legal and my definition of marriage didn't become any less serious.
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Post by throbak on Feb 3, 2016 7:55:02 GMT -5
Commercial Fishing has fished Unregulated year round No limits Till this year The Paylakes have put a demand On these fish that CF all over the US are taking advantage of our unregulated free for all All the changes in methods of fishing will not change the fact the fish are not there due to overfishing They have been caught cooking the books to show the fish are just as plentiful as ever They can overfish any thing they want to And are Better do a little research before you say CF are not a problem
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Post by tynimiller on Feb 3, 2016 8:54:23 GMT -5
I'd say that 90% of high fence hunters hunt free range just like us. They put in just as much time, scouting and effort as the rest of us. The main difference is they have the "extra" money to spend on a hunt I'd they want. And the majority of these hunts are $1,500 to $4,000. A lot of people spend that on leases or vactions, these guys just do it on hunting. If these places do it legally, ethically and without interfering with traditional hunting it's their business. There are a lot more important things to lose sleep over today than whether a guy is hunting behind high fence. There is a very important election going on in case you have not noticed, that will actually effect your life and your children's life. Your first paragraph I take slight concern with. There is in my opinion zero chance you are that in touch with the entire high fence operations to know the type of clients they serve each year and whether or not they spend any time outside the fences refining their skills with a bow or gun, ability to read/cypher sign/droppings, habitat manipulation when possible or being able to choose the proper stand placements. Also you do realize charges can climb WELL above your $4,000 figure quoted? Further thoughts just simply from the top of my head: I've known of a decent amount of guys that have done these hunts, and personally spoken to just a handful. Of that handful ONE of them was what I would consider an "outdoor lover". He is a business man whom sadly has ever since getting bit with a lucrative deal only sees life worth living if it means making more money. I truly think the man is of good nature and at some point his upbringing (which taught him better) will win out...but that is another discussion. Anyways...he loves the outdoors and spends most of his vacations on Alaskan or Canada fishing trips and will do a canned hunt from time to time for "trophy deer". He knows I personally don't view the deer as trophies and he doesn't attempt to argue with me. For him he doesn't want to invest the hours on stand, and HUNDREDS of hours after seasons are over prepping for the next...he told me if I put in as much effort into making money as I did hunting I'd be in a much better place. I just smile and say "Financially that very well could be true, but my room of "trophies to me" are filled with stories. Stories of hard work, perseverance, failures followed by the ultimate success (not too mention my house has an amazing wife that loves me enough to understand my addiction haha)...he smiled and said "You know how you said you wish you had more wealth? I wish I had more of that [trophies like me]...but I don't have the time." That experience and some other conversations with high fence advocates kinda changed my way of thinking a while back...I used to not just judge the operation but the people utilizing them. The women and men that pay upwards of $5,000/$8,000 for these deer are not bad people...some are busy and yes some are just bad hunters otherwise...but they're not evil at all. JJ nailed it when he said they already exist [fenced operations], the question is no longer should they exist or not; it is how are we going to allow them to operate and what if any restrictions or relations will they have/play a part in for wildlife conservation outside the fence. *I only had one cup of coffee today so far so apologies if this wasn't clear or concise. (just ignore if so haha) Either way
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Post by greghopper on Feb 3, 2016 9:14:32 GMT -5
The diease that follow these places and the success rate or guarantee of kill are 2 of many things I have against them..
They don't want anyone to regulate them .... There above that!!!
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Post by swilk on Feb 3, 2016 9:47:20 GMT -5
I consider myself as much of a sportsman as anyone ive ever known ..... high fence operations just dont bother me. At all. To be honest I dont even think of them until I come across something like this. When I do think of them I always go back to the same thing ..... the enclosure matters.
A 50 acre pen where a single deer is released to be shot and killed by a paying client I dont consider hunting even in the loosest sense of the word. I cant say these types of scenarios should not exist because I believe in freedom. The freedom to offer a service and the freedom to pay for that service. I dont like it so therefore I will not offer nor pay to receive. How much regulation these types of places should have can be discussed .....
A few hundred thousand acres fenced where an animal could very realistically never even come across the fence in its lifetime and a hunter has no guarantee of killing a "chosen" animal I could could consider hunting even though it does not fit within the established definition of "fair chase".
There is no mold ... no one size fits all. Many factors matter .... not just a fence.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Feb 3, 2016 11:14:00 GMT -5
I'd say that 90% of high fence hunters hunt free range just like us. They put in just as much time, scouting and effort as the rest of us. The main difference is they have the "extra" money to spend on a hunt I'd they want. And the majority of these hunts are $1,500 to $4,000. A lot of people spend that on leases or vactions, these guys just do it on hunting. If these places do it legally, ethically and without interfering with traditional hunting it's their business. There are a lot more important things to lose sleep over today than whether a guy is hunting behind high fence. There is a very important election going on in case you have not noticed, that will actually effect your life and your children's life. Your first paragraph I take slight concern with. There is in my opinion zero chance you are that in touch with the entire high fence operations to know the type of clients they serve each year and whether or not they spend any time outside the fences refining their skills with a bow or gun, ability to read/cypher sign/droppings, habitat manipulation when possible or being able to choose the proper stand placements. Also you do realize charges can climb WELL above your $4,000 figure quoted? Pretty sure HunterMan is Rodney Bruce, owner of Whitetail Bluffs.
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Post by jjas on Feb 3, 2016 11:20:19 GMT -5
I agree these places should be closely regulated, encompass a certain amount of acreage and made to be responsible for any "messes" they create, but IMHO, arguing about their very existence serves little constructive purpose, as it appears that ship has sailed.
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Post by hunterman on Feb 3, 2016 12:00:37 GMT -5
If anyone feels these places should be unregulated they are likely to be a bad actor that could jeopardize what we all love. The bill going through legislature addresses every concern, acreage, baiting, fees,animal health and penalties for anyone not complying to regulation. If the bill doesn't pass there will be no regulation, that scares me.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Feb 3, 2016 12:05:04 GMT -5
If anyone feels these places should be unregulated they are likely to be a bad actor that could jeopardize what we all love. The bill going through legislature addresses every concern, acreage, baiting, fees,animal health and penalties for anyone not complying to regulation. If the bill doesn't pass there will be no regulation, that scares me. I'm curious why baiting is be an issue if high fenced hunting?
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Post by hunterman on Feb 3, 2016 12:44:15 GMT -5
Baiting is a highly controversial topic as if high fence wasn't already. Though legal in many states for many species some absolutely are appalled by baiting. I have hunted bear all over the world and baiting is often used but I personally refuse to hunt over bait or with dogs. Don't mean I wanna prevent others from doing it but not my cup of tea.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Feb 3, 2016 12:57:08 GMT -5
Baiting is a highly controversial topic as if high fence wasn't already. Though legal in many states for many species some absolutely are appalled by baiting. I have hunted bear all over the world and baiting is often used but I personally refuse to hunt over bait or with dogs. Don't mean I wanna prevent others from doing it but not my cup of tea. Wow, I bet you have a lot of hunting stories. I love to hear stories. If you're ever bored out of your mind and thirsty for coffee, I'd like to hear some stories.
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Post by nfalls116 on Feb 3, 2016 15:10:43 GMT -5
Commercial Fishing has fished Unregulated year round No limits Till this year The Paylakes have put a demand On these fish that CF all over the US are taking advantage of our unregulated free for all All the changes in methods of fishing will not change the fact the fish are not there due to overfishing They have been caught cooking the books to show the fish are just as plentiful as ever They can overfish any thing they want to And are Better do a little research before you say CF are not a problem was on my way to a water rescue and tucked back in this bend of a creek laid a fishing boat two guys and at least 20 lines... Now tell me how ethical that is or how many times I've heard people say when they catch a gar they break its nose off or shove its bill in the sand.... Or things they do to other non sports species That's a sportsman Or better yet how many tournament fisherman (the pinnacle of ethical sportsman) catch and release a dead or dying fish because their weight would poorly be effected by it... Wait, are tournaments NOT for the money. Just some ramblings
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Feb 3, 2016 15:24:08 GMT -5
Commercial Fishing has fished Unregulated year round No limits Till this year The Paylakes have put a demand On these fish that CF all over the US are taking advantage of our unregulated free for all All the changes in methods of fishing will not change the fact the fish are not there due to overfishing They have been caught cooking the books to show the fish are just as plentiful as ever They can overfish any thing they want to And are Better do a little research before you say CF are not a problem was on my way to a water rescue and tucked back in this bend of a creek laid a fishing boat two guys and at least 20 lines... Now tell me how ethical that is or how many times I've heard people say when they catch a gar they break its nose off or shove its bill in the sand.... Or things they do to other non sports species That's a sportsman Or better yet how many tournament fisherman (the pinnacle of ethical sportsman) catch and release a dead or dying fish because their weight would poorly be effected by it... Wait, are tournaments NOT for the money. Just some ramblings I kill opossums and don't eat them.
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Post by throbak on Feb 3, 2016 16:19:49 GMT -5
The tourney Guys I know don't do that If your live well can't handle the fish You don't fish and they are inspected You must hang with a bunch of I don't know what that does that to a gar I have heard of it But never seen it the most tourney Gus I know are in it for bragging rites with a small big fish and entry fee not in it for the money KY is unlimited if they were in IN with IN license They were poachers and law breakers and you should have called a CO A few good ole boys betting on who catches the biggest fish is a lot different from cf catching Thousands of pounds Day after day and selling bro p lakes
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Post by nfalls116 on Feb 3, 2016 16:29:09 GMT -5
I don't hang with the people that do that to gar but I have talked to people who have done that. Regarding the fishing poles I was mainly concerned with finding a missing family in the low light and by the time we went back by a few minutes later they were gone, they knew they were Busted out and all the local c.o were on foot way up creek looking for the same family so there was no reasonable way they could've caught them
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Post by nfalls116 on Feb 3, 2016 16:35:06 GMT -5
And back to the point of commercial fisherman as much as you don't know any tournament fisherman who switch dead fish out you cant deny that it happens I don't know any commercial fisherman who sell to the pay lakes in fact They are against it but I know that it happens. Just like I know there are people who poach deer but just because some people poach deer it doesn't mean that we should just outlaw hunting deer altogether the most simple thing is make it illegal to sell live fish as a cf
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Feb 3, 2016 16:52:23 GMT -5
I shoot opossums and don't eat them.
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Post by nfalls116 on Feb 3, 2016 17:06:21 GMT -5
I shoot opossums and don't eat them. You pig
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Feb 3, 2016 18:29:38 GMT -5
I shoot opossums and don't eat them. You pig I'm not even ashamed. The coyotes weren't hungry enough to eat it. There are still 4 of them sitting in the field.
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