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Post by davers on Dec 14, 2016 12:51:57 GMT -5
That or the CVA 45/70, or if you already have an Encore any of those 45/70 barrels can be fitted with a smokeless breecb plug. But there is no going back to cartridges once the breech is machined for the plug. Thanks. Just a quick google search, this looks like the cheapest way to get into a smokeless muzzleloader. Found this website by using "Google": www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com/
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Post by mcooper on Dec 14, 2016 12:53:40 GMT -5
I have a CVA Wolf 50 cal muzzleloader that is about 8 years old. I've taken good care of it. I would be willing to pass it down to someone who is in need of to someone who is wanting to get into hunting.
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Post by onebentarrow on Dec 14, 2016 13:26:06 GMT -5
I'm just a bit confused about the desire to have a smokeless muzzleloader. So I understand why the powders cannot be interchanged or at least the smokeless in a smoking gun. LOL They shoot further? Before the new rifle laws, I guess I can see the desire, but I can't see anything further than my slug gun can shoot. I do understand the desire to use something different to make a harvest, just for the fun of it or adventure. Is this all we're talking about here? I kind of like the smoke. I can't see after the shot, but it's kind of cool. LOL If you are happy with your slug gun, by all means stick to it. Me, I started shooting/hunting in the 70's with a smoke pole. At that time if you had a slug gun that would hold an 8 in group at 50 yrds you had a tight shooter. But my TC haukens with patched round ball would shoot 4 in groups at 100 with 4 in of drop and would not knock your shoulder off. The down side was each time you you got dune shooting you had to spend an hour cleaning and oiling it. Even.at the range you needed to swab the Barrel every couple of shots to be able to load it again. What I liked about it was I could tweet the load to get the best accuracy possible for about 25 % of the cost of shooting slugs. With the new smokeless guns today a guy can shoot all day and never have to swab the barrel or clean it right away for fear of rust and corosin. Also you can now tweek the loads better. (kind of powder,kind,weight,and stile of bullet,felt or vegy wad or nune, full form (45. cal bullet in a 45 cal gun) or sabot load with 10-20 shapes lengths compounds ,smooth sided, ruff sided, kind of ignition ( 209,no 11 or now they are using cut off brass cases with.standard to magnum primers. With all this if all you want is a deer killer you can still do it on the cheep but if you want a gun that will constantly kill to 4-500 yards the components are going to be a bit more costly and you are going to have to put some rounds down range to see what it likes to get the 1/2 in groups at 100 and 4 in groups at 400. If you do not like shooting/ tinkering with a gun and load and just shoot 3 rounds a year to make sure it is sighted in the smokeless muzzeloader is probbly not for you. Not that once you get the gun figured out with the components it wants to shoot the best nothing sais you can't just shoot 3 rounds a year but to get there is going to take more time and prep than a standard rifle or shotgun. Hope this helps you understand some of the behind the seen stuff that goes on with some of us smokeless (for lack of a better work) nuts. Onebentarrow
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Post by onebentarrow on Dec 14, 2016 13:28:55 GMT -5
I have a CVA Wolf 50 cal muzzleloader that is about 8 years old. I've taken good care of it. I would be willing to pass it down to someone who is in need of to someone who is wanting to get into hunting. That is very gracious of you. If I knew someone that needed it I would give them a call to see if they wanted it but right now I do not.
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Post by mcooper on Dec 14, 2016 14:55:37 GMT -5
Well, my post goes out to anyone, young or old. If looking for a muzzleloader, let me know.
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Post by HuntMeister on Dec 14, 2016 15:29:02 GMT -5
I'm just a bit confused about the desire to have a smokeless muzzleloader. So I understand why the powders cannot be interchanged or at least the smokeless in a smoking gun. LOL They shoot further? Before the new rifle laws, I guess I can see the desire, but I can't see anything further than my slug gun can shoot. I do understand the desire to use something different to make a harvest, just for the fun of it or adventure. Is this all we're talking about here? I kind of like the smoke. I can't see after the shot, but it's kind of cool. LOL For me there were two main reasons to go smokeless. 1. With the regular muzzleloaders that I had, the POI changed from a clean bore to a dirty bore. With a smokeless setup, I have never had this issue. When I shot a doe at last light with my regular muzz, had to back out and lost her to the coyotes, that was the last straw for me. 2. I grew to hate cleaning a regular muzzleloader. Seems I am always short on time for things like that. A third reason, but not why I initially went down the smokeless route, is speed kills! At 2700 fps the Barnes TMZ does some major damage! Extended range was not even a consideration in deciding to build a smokeless ML. Obviously at 2700 fps I could extend my range greatly over the old smokers I used to shoot but for me under typical field conditions I will pass on the 200+ yard shots.
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Post by mcooper on Dec 14, 2016 16:19:30 GMT -5
Well for me it's knowing that you only have 1 shot to make it happen. Unlike pump shotguns and rifles where you have more chances. That's where the phrase "1 shot smack down" came from. As for smoke or smokeless, from my research, there isn't really a smokeless powder. I shoot Triple7 powder and to some extent it is smokeless, but not 100%. It plainly reads on my bottle it can't be 100% due to shipping purpose. There is another reason for me shooting black powder, and that being I have a great friend who got in trouble some years ago and got a felony on his record. He can only hunt with a bow or black powder, so to keep from him being in the vehicle with a firearm, I chose to use black powder when I hunt with him.
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Post by GS1 on Dec 14, 2016 19:49:18 GMT -5
I've used Triple7, Pyrodex and some White Hot powder and none of them were ever as easy to clean as my smokeless. If I forget to clean it or don't want to for 3 months (or 6 months) it looks the same as it did the day I shot it 6 months before.
I may have to try some of these cleaners you guys use on my son's CVA. I never even got it out this year, because I didn't want to clean it.
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Post by swilk on Dec 14, 2016 20:23:09 GMT -5
Blackhorn 209 is very, very easy to clean. I bought my dad an encore a few years ago because he cannot load my Savage's and I ended up using Blackhorn in it. Very pleased...for a substitute.
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Post by bullseye69 on Dec 14, 2016 20:28:26 GMT -5
I've used Triple7, Pyrodex and some White Hot powder and none of them were ever as easy to clean as my smokeless. If I forget to clean it or don't want to for 3 months (or 6 months) it looks the same as it did the day I shot it 6 months before. I may have to try some of these cleaners you guys use on my son's CVA. I never even got it out this year, because I didn't want to clean it. Hate cleaning smoke poles!! I like to shoot paper ,deer or what have ya with a muzzle loader but when I'm done shooting I just want to put it away and know when I load it up next time she will be where I left it. Not off a little because I bumped the sight cleaning it or putting it back together after cleaning it. I like cleaning ML so much that I got my son one too. I also like the speed you can get out of them. Shot a doe with the same bullet twice a few years ago. When I shot her, she was scratching her head with her back foot and I shot thru her neck thru her chest and into the oak tree behind her. At 110 yards with a 300 grn SP semi-spitzer Barnes bullet. Speed kills!!
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Post by outdoorjoe on Dec 14, 2016 21:14:53 GMT -5
Does anyone have experience with the new remington ML? If i could scrape up the funds i think it could be an interesting option.
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Post by (Not Ronald) Reagan on Dec 14, 2016 21:35:34 GMT -5
Well, my post goes out to anyone, young or old. If looking for a muzzleloader, let me know. Hey man I actually do, I got a new buddy interested in hunting and only has a shotgun that honestly isn't quite that accurate.
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Post by (Not Ronald) Reagan on Dec 14, 2016 21:36:59 GMT -5
My dad's savage smokeless has had problems too, bolt not closing all the way and it not firing. Not sure what the deal is but we ended up going back to our old Remington muzzleloader which works just fine. Reading these articles hasn't helped us make a decision on what to do with it yet.
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Post by esshup on Dec 14, 2016 22:20:26 GMT -5
And Colorado requires you to use iron sights and no sabots too. I could not use my Savage Muzzleloader during a center fire rifle cow elk season without going iron sights, BP and full bore bullet. I thought it was only for the muzzle loading season they limited the ML you can use. That's what I thought as well, but 2 different phone calls to the Colorado DNR on two different days, talking to two different people and I got the same answer. Silly, but it's their rules......
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Post by esshup on Dec 14, 2016 22:33:41 GMT -5
I'm just a bit confused about the desire to have a smokeless muzzleloader. So I understand why the powders cannot be interchanged or at least the smokeless in a smoking gun. LOL They shoot further? Before the new rifle laws, I guess I can see the desire, but I can't see anything further than my slug gun can shoot. I do understand the desire to use something different to make a harvest, just for the fun of it or adventure. Is this all we're talking about here? I kind of like the smoke. I can't see after the shot, but it's kind of cool. LOL I'm kind of an accuracy nut, and usually a cold, clean gun will shoot to a different Point of Impact when it's warm or dirty. So, the 2nd shot may hit a different spot than the first one. I shoot my muzzleloader before season to verify that nothing has changed, then load it and hunt. I don't clean it until season is over. There are areas that I can shoot on one property well past the range of ANY muzzleloader and to safely shoot, you have to be sitting at the edge of the field. Deer might come out 50 yards away or over 1,000 yards away, so the further you can accurately shoot, the more chances you have on harvesting a deer. I also like the accuracy of them compared to a slug gun. I made a bad shot one year in Wisconsin during regular rifle season (hunting with the .50 cal Savage) Had to shoot offhand, no rest and I anticipated the recoil, sending the bullet low and I broke it's leg. 75 yd shot. I'm in a climbing tree stand. Deer hobbles off, then lays down 167 yds away (rangefinder always goes with me), facing directly away from me, but looks back over her shoulder every minute or so. I quietly reload, sit down to get a steady rest, and shoot her right where her head joins her neck when she looks back. I watched her for about 10 minutes and her pattern never varied. Look back, never moving for about 30 seconds, look forward for the same amount of time. No way could I have gotten down from the tree without spooking her, shooting her in the butt would have ruined too much meat. While my slug gun can shoot that far, it's not as accurate.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Dec 14, 2016 22:34:40 GMT -5
I have a CVA Wolf 50 cal muzzleloader that is about 8 years old. I've taken good care of it. I would be willing to pass it down to someone who is in need of to someone who is wanting to get into hunting. This is the attitude Mr. Cooper! I appreciate you, and don't need a thing from you.
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Post by esshup on Dec 14, 2016 22:41:50 GMT -5
My dad's savage smokeless has had problems too, bolt not closing all the way and it not firing. Not sure what the deal is but we ended up going back to our old Remington muzzleloader which works just fine. Reading these articles hasn't helped us make a decision on what to do with it yet. Clean the breech plug for starters. There could be carbon crud in it and it is preventing the primer from inserting all the way and you are trying to crush a bit of the primer to get the bolt into battery.
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Post by (Not Ronald) Reagan on Dec 14, 2016 22:44:35 GMT -5
My dad's savage smokeless has had problems too, bolt not closing all the way and it not firing. Not sure what the deal is but we ended up going back to our old Remington muzzleloader which works just fine. Reading these articles hasn't helped us make a decision on what to do with it yet. Clean the breech plug for starters. There could be carbon crud in it and it is preventing the primer from inserting all the way and you are trying to crush a bit of the primer to get the bolt into battery. We've done that, stripped everything and cleaned it all. Going to take it to a gunsmith and see what they can do.
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Post by esshup on Dec 15, 2016 9:40:19 GMT -5
Clean the breech plug for starters. There could be carbon crud in it and it is preventing the primer from inserting all the way and you are trying to crush a bit of the primer to get the bolt into battery. We've done that, stripped everything and cleaned it all. Going to take it to a gunsmith and see what they can do. ML-I or ML-II? Can the bolt be closed and the gun "fired" if there is no primer in place?
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Post by buckeater on Dec 15, 2016 10:12:10 GMT -5
Does anyone have experience with the new remington ML? If i could scrape up the funds i think it could be an interesting option. I've never shot one but know a guy who has one. I've held it it is a pretty heavy gun. He said it kicked so bad he had to send it to a gun smith/shop and they machined a muzzle break on it. Said it tamed it down some but not a whole lot.
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