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Post by jjas on Jan 7, 2018 19:32:04 GMT -5
Well...I'd say 113,000 is a given. Last time I checked, the number posted was 112,962. We've also surpassed last year's antlerless total of 4,202 with a total this year of 4,497 (based on rough data of course).
I think that if not for the lousy weather on the opening weekend of firearms season, we might have have topped last season's total harvest, this season. What do I base that on? The rough data posted so far...
Early archery was up roughly 5,000 deer as compared to last season.
The last 14 days of the firearms season was up roughly 8,500 deer as compared to last season.
The muzzleloader season was up by roughly 2,000 deer as compared to last season.
And now, the late antlerless season is up 300 deer as of 7:30 pm on January 7.
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Post by js2397 on Jan 7, 2018 20:25:57 GMT -5
113,076
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Post by boonechaser on Jan 7, 2018 22:30:59 GMT -5
Well...I'd say 113,000 is a given. Last time I checked, the number posted was 112,962. We've also surpassed last year's antlerless total of 4,202 with a total this year of 4,497 (based on rough data of course). I think that if not for the lousy weather on the opening weekend of firearms season, we might have have topped last season's total harvest, this season. What do I base that on? The rough data posted so far... Early archery was up roughly 5,000 deer as compared to last season. The last 14 days of the firearms season was up roughly 8,500 deer as compared to last season. The muzzleloader season was up by roughly 2,000 deer as compared to last season. And now, the late antlerless season is up 300 deer as of 7:30 pm on January 7. Early archery had a extra 7 days and late antlerless had additional 6 days I think. All speculation aside we are down for second year in a row. Obviously the planned herd reduction plan has worked. Myself am hoping for continued lowering of bonus antlerless tags. Ideally dreaming my county be lowered to a 3 just to get out of late antlerless season. End day there will be a 2018 Deer Season and work and plans already are underway.
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Post by jjas on Jan 8, 2018 0:05:28 GMT -5
boonehaser
If you look @ the last 4 years we have complete numbers for (2013-126,000, 2014-120,000, 2015-125,000, 2016-119,000), the yearly harvest has averaged about 122,500 deer per season. Is that down from the years before that? Yes, but that was the goal with herd reduction. Point being...it shows a pretty steady harvest number over that period of time.
As far as this year goes, if you look @ the numbers for the opening weekend of the firearms season, it's impossible to not see the impact the weather had. There was a 20,000 drop as compared to last season and for hunters to be able to make up that much of the deficit during the other seasons is impressive IMO.
Next...when you look @ the recent history of the late antlerless season, the DNR drops counties out of the late antlerless season every year and I'm sure they'll drop a few more next season.
Finally...(and for FWIW), here's my prediction for next season. If there isn't a big change to the regs, and barring some major issue like a huge Winter kill, a major EHD outbreak, (or another firearms opening weekend with weather like we had this year)...I think the harvest will go right back up to the 120,000-125,000 range next season...
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Post by tynimiller on Jan 8, 2018 10:29:39 GMT -5
Your last paragraph jjas I agree with 100%.
boonechaser I don't have any objection if county antlerless quotas all dropped below 4 (say 3 or less). Shoot the number of hunters this would impact is so incredibly miniscule that is isn't worth having IMO as I can still hunt does late season with my bow if I still have solid numbers and could justify going after one without the late season firearms season on antlerless.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 8, 2018 10:35:09 GMT -5
Current reported deer harvest: 113,321 From Sept 15, 2017 to Monday, January 8, 2018 at 9:30 AM CST Since we have 48 hours to check in deer and yesterday was the end of the "Special Antlerless Season" I let it ride for a few more hours this morning to pick up some of the stragglers..More to come I'm sure.. That is 1,007 registered since yesterday. 4,856 deer have been registered since the start of the "Special Antlerless Season". There was 4,202 deer taken in the 2016 "Special Antlerless Season" Deer harvest numbers are updated as deer are checked in via CheckIN Game. All numbers are raw data that have not been verified by the Indiana DNR. www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/8367.htm
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Post by boonechaser on Jan 8, 2018 11:40:42 GMT -5
Your last paragraph jjas I agree with 100%. boonechaser I don't have any objection if county antlerless quotas all dropped below 4 (say 3 or less). Shoot the number of hunters this would impact is so incredibly miniscule that is isn't worth having IMO as I can still hunt does late season with my bow if I still have solid numbers and could justify going after one without the late season firearms season on antlerless. If all counties were to drop to 3 thus eliminating the late antlerless I believe you might be surprised on the impact. Remember it is accumulative impact year after year. Just a mere 5000 less doe harvest x 5 years x offspring increase from year to year is a big number. Everyone says the deer reduction program began in 2012. But I argue it began long before that when bonus system was first introduced and to be honest our deer herd needed reduced. Personally I don't ever see the deer herd getting to population number's that we had in late 1990's early 2000's in my lifetime at least.
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Post by tynimiller on Jan 8, 2018 12:20:09 GMT -5
Another option if they don't want to erase it is shorten the season...take it down to just a week of bonus antlerless season.
I don't necessarily believe we need limits statewide like many are screaming for because I know some awesome land managers that could no longer take a few does here or over on their personal farms elsewhere...
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Post by tynimiller on Jan 8, 2018 12:21:29 GMT -5
Honestly, I still think the easiest way to make a decent change is get rid of the bundle and make it a duo license. I know for a fact plenty of guys think they need to get their money's worth and take a 3rd deer because of it...remove the thought by making it a duo...covers 2 deer with 1 being able to be antlered.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 8, 2018 13:25:13 GMT -5
Your last paragraph jjas I agree with 100%. boonechaser I don't have any objection if county antlerless quotas all dropped below 4 (say 3 or less). Shoot the number of hunters this would impact is so incredibly miniscule that is isn't worth having IMO as I can still hunt does late season with my bow if I still have solid numbers and could justify going after one without the late season firearms season on antlerless. If all counties were to drop to 3 thus eliminating the late antlerless I believe you might be surprised on the impact. Remember it is accumulative impact year after year. Just a mere 5000 less doe harvest x 5 years x offspring increase from year to year is a big number. Everyone says the deer reduction program began in 2012. But I argue it began long before that when bonus system was first introduced and to be honest our deer herd needed reduced. Personally I don't ever see the deer herd getting to population number's that we had in late 1990's early 2000's in my lifetime at least. In late 1990's early 2000's we had a "bonus system" and the herd grew to the size that legislators told the DNR to reduce the herd or they would! thus the reduction plan that started in 2012....
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Post by jjas on Jan 8, 2018 13:49:10 GMT -5
Your last paragraph jjas I agree with 100%. boonechaser I don't have any objection if county antlerless quotas all dropped below 4 (say 3 or less). Shoot the number of hunters this would impact is so incredibly miniscule that is isn't worth having IMO as I can still hunt does late season with my bow if I still have solid numbers and could justify going after one without the late season firearms season on antlerless. If all counties were to drop to 3 thus eliminating the late antlerless I believe you might be surprised on the impact. Remember it is accumulative impact year after year. Just a mere 5000 less doe harvest x 5 years x offspring increase from year to year is a big number. Everyone says the deer reduction program began in 2012. But I argue it began long before that when bonus system was first introduced and to be honest our deer herd needed reduced. Personally I don't ever see the deer herd getting to population number's that we had in late 1990's early 2000's in my lifetime at least. With all due respect, I don't think it would have much of an effect @ all... I went back and looked @ the data from three seasons....2009,2012,2016. In 2009, the total number of antlerless deer killed was 79,772. Of that number, 59,053 were killed during the firearms and muzzleloader seasons (as there wasn't a late antlerless season that year). That total (59,053) equates to 74% of the total antlerless harvest that season. In 2012, (the first season after the reg changes), the total number of antlerless deer killed was 90,312. Of that number, 63,825 were killed during the firearms, muzzleloader AND the late antlerless seasons. That total (63,825) equates to 71% of the total antlerless harvest that season. In 2016, the total number of antlerless deer killed was 67,694. Of that number, 49,355 were killed during the firearms, muzzleloader AND the late antlerless seasons. That total (49,355) equates to 73% of the total harvest. Point being...(on a percentage of total antlerless harvest basis), that number has totaled somewhere between 71-74 percent of the total antlerless harvest (for the three seasons, I cited) with a firearm whether that season included a late antlerless season or not. In other words, it certainly appears that there aren't more antlerless deer being killed (as a percentage of total antlerless harvest) with a firearm because of the late antlerless season, it has just spread the number of antlerless deer killed with a firearm out... FWIW, I went back and checked from 2009-2016. Before the reg change in 2012, the percentage was 2009-74%, 2010-75%, 2011-74%, for an average of 74%. Since 2012 (after the reg change), the percentage was 2012-71%, 2013-69%, 2014-68%, 2015-69%, 2016-73%, for an average of 70%. So in actuality, the percentage of antlerless harvest with a firearm has actually dropped a bit since 2012, even with the addition of the late antlerless season... Finally...I don't think the IDNR is looking to increase the herd. My understanding is that they wish to stay in more of a "maintain" mode @ this time.
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Post by boonechaser on Jan 8, 2018 14:31:46 GMT -5
Antlerless harvests are declining because the doe population is declining is my take on statistic's. I agree the current population level is going to be more of the norm and I do not expect any major changes coming from DNR. I have spoke with Joe via email couple months ago and he said expect lower bonus antlerless limit's as yes we are entering a maintenance phase. I do expect some counties , esp. Northern to see bonus tags reduced to level's that would allow for some growth. (But we will have to wait and see.) Just because DNR and/or deer Biologist make those recommendation's doesn't mean that's what will happen as others have a say in the number bonus tags.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 14:56:41 GMT -5
How about the hunter? "Yes, the number of hunters in the United States is declining. In 1970, over 40 million Americans purchased hunting licenses. Today, the number is 12.6 million. This trend is likely to continue. Almost 50% of hunters are over age 47. The steep decline can be attributed to a number of causes including habitat loss, rising costs, complicated regulations, other forms of entertainment, societal changes, demographic changes, and the mass media." From: www.biggamelogic.com/Articles-News/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/603/A-Closer-Look-At-The-Decline-In-Hunter-ParticipationThere are a lot of articles reflecting the same. "DNR"How do we keep the number in check with the hunters we have? 1st, give the current hunter more opportunities (days). 2nd, give good hunters the ability to take more than 1 doe. 3rd, allow crossbows and rifles and 4th, how does DNR keep the income with less licenses being sold? The real issue is not the deer herd size, but the Hunter herd size.
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Post by jjas on Jan 8, 2018 14:56:53 GMT -5
Antlerless harvests are declining because the doe population is declining is my take on statistic's. I agree the current population level is going to be more of the norm and I do not expect any major changes coming from DNR. I have spoke with Joe via email couple months ago and he said expect lower bonus antlerless limit's as yes we are entering a maintenance phase. I do expect some counties , esp. Northern to see bonus tags reduced to level's that would allow for some growth. (But we will have to wait and see.) Just because DNR and/or deer Biologist make those recommendation's doesn't mean that's what will happen as others have a say in the number bonus tags. If herd reduction is working, there will be lower numbers of antlerless deer being harvested. On that point we agree. But even if the DNR lowers every county to a 3, it won't have a major impact on herd numbers as any hunter can purchase an archery tag, muzzleloader tag and crossbow tag and kill three antlerless deer if they so choose without ever purchasing a bonus antlerless license. If they then choose to kill does with a bonus antlerless license they can purchase 3 of those as well to use anytime during the season. It would keep hunters out of the late antlerless season, but it would just move the harvest around, not lower it. That has been the thing that I've tried to get across to people who think the late antlerless season is THE problem with deer management in Indiana. It's not, IMO.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 8, 2018 15:15:22 GMT -5
The "late special antlerless season" is only in counties that DNR believes more antlerless need to be taken out. We can argue till the cows come home if their method of figuring that is correct or not, but it is what it is. As far as I know they use the same method that was in use decades ago when they grew the herd.
The "late antlerless season" is a management spigot than can be turned off and on easily.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 8, 2018 15:17:15 GMT -5
113,429 Now...
In 2016, 119,477 white-tailed deer were harvested in Indiana, including 51,783 antlered deer and 67,694 antlerless deer.
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Post by jjas on Jan 8, 2018 15:17:52 GMT -5
The "late special antlerless season" is only in counties that DNR believes more antlerless need to be taken out. We can argue till the cows come home if their method of figuring that is correct or not, but it is what it is. As far as I know they use the same method that was in use decades ago when they grew the herd. The "late antlerless season" is a management spigot than can be turned off and on easily. Exactly!
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Post by boonechaser on Jan 8, 2018 15:38:47 GMT -5
Per DNR. The reason bonus antlerless limits are set high is to create the illusion that herd numbers are good to encourage hunter's to shoot more. Wouldn't lowering those limit's have the same reverse effect in creating a illusion that herd is not good and hunter's in turn would shoot less? HHHMMMM. Late antlerless is a deer reduction tool period. (That's straight from DNR as well) If we are in a maintenance phase than it's not needed. (Just another week long firearm season.) Personally never participated and can safely say never will
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Post by jjas on Jan 8, 2018 15:54:09 GMT -5
Per DNR. The reason bonus antlerless limits are set high is to create the illusion that herd numbers are good to encourage hunter's to shoot more. Wouldn't lowering those limit's have the same reverse effect in creating a illusion that herd is not good and hunter's in turn would shoot less? HHHMMMM. Late antlerless is a deer reduction tool period. (That's straight from DNR as well) If we are in a maintenance phase than it's not needed. (Just another week long firearm season.) Personally never participated and can safely say never will I can't say in your case, but in many cases I think that this line from your post above... illustrates what many people's main issue is with Indiana's deer season. They don't like the firearms season structure in the state, and don't look @ the late antlerless season as a deer reduction tool, they look @ it as "just another firearms season"...
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Post by boonechaser on Jan 8, 2018 18:38:50 GMT -5
Maybe, Personally I have hunted all Regular seasons and have killed deer with bow, shotgun, rifle and muzzy. Bow is my weapon on choice though. If I could change seasons lengths I'd first move bow opener back to Oct.15. Rarely hunt in the heat.
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