Comparing buck and doe kill by dates..

[Woody Williams]

From Mark Reiter, IDNR:

"By providing hunters the opportunity to use firearms early in November, the pressure was taken off of the antlerless component and placed on the antlered component of the deer herd. Now that our mission has changed and we are trying to strategically reduce the deer herd, more female deer should be harvested by delaying the start of the firearms season. This can be seen in recent years (1999-2000 and 2005-2006) as the start of the firearms opener varies from November 12th or 13th in the first year of each series to November 18 the following year. The antlered buck harvest declined from the first year in the sequence to the second (~10% each year), while the antlerless harvest increased. This is strong evidence that a later start date will help increase the antlerless harvest."

They used 4 data point to “prove” their theory. Why not look at all the season kills?


D = Doe

B = Buck

PS - Hope full I did not lose any numbers in the formatting.



1999 – November 13 – November 28 (I think)

D -35,452

B - 35,482


2000 - November 18 - December 3

D - 35,998
+546

B - 31,740
-3,742

2001 - November 17 - December 2

D - 34,298
-1,700

B - 33,660
,920

2002 - November 16 - December 1

D - 36,682
+2,362

B - 37,119
+3,459

2003 - November 15 - 30

D - 34,637
-2,045


B - 36,961
-158

2004 - November 13 - 28

D - 41,444

+6,807

B - 43,107
+6,146

2005 - November 12 - 27

D - 44,560
+3,116


B - 40,104
-3,456

2006 - November 18 –December 3

D - 44,566
+6


B - 36,095
-4,009

2007 - November 17 to December 2

D - 44,524
+42

B - 36,138
+43

2008 - November 15 to November 30

D - 48,130
+3,606

B - 38,324
+2,186

2009 - November 14 to November 29

D - 44,175
-3,955

B - 38,921
+597



The two years that really jump out for me is two early start years.....

2004 - November 13 - 28

D - 41,444
+6,807

B - 43,107
+6,146

2005 - November 12 - 27

D - 44,560
+3,116


B - 40,104
-3,456

Now one would have thought that with an early start date in 2005 that the buck kill would be up and the doe kill would suffer. The doe kill was up from the year before and the buck kill was down. Hmmm?

Please explain to me how this is a doe reduction plan and not a buck increase plan?

[Woody Williams]

BTW - At the request of a former member I am researching the OHIO kill data. he likes Ohio data as long as it is not about crossbows..

[js2397]

There are some other things to consider also, 2002 was the first year of the OBR. The antlerless quotas were also increased a couple times during that time. I think during that period almost every county has increased their quota. I know my county went from 4 to 8.

Does anyone know when the bonus antlerless tags became available over the counter? I know when I first started hunting you had to draw a doe tag.

[js2397]

If you look at the numbers almost every time the date moved forward the total harvest increased.

[DEERTRACKS]

There are 2 big varibles missing in the conclusions. The weather conditions of the previous winters & the current seasons listed!

[Woody Williams]

Jul 14, 2010 10:22:33 GMT -5 js2397 said:

If you look at the numbers almost every time the date moved forward the total harvest increased.

Yes sir.. bucks were not the only gender active earlier..

BTW - 2002 was the first year of the OBR.

[tenring]

Wow, now I get it. Let's have a 2 day gun hunt and really go for a "slaughter fest!"

[DEERTRACKS]

Jul 14, 2010 11:03:59 GMT -5 tenring said:

Wow, now I get it. Let's have a 2 day gun hunt and really go for a "slaughter fest!"

I feel ya tr. I'll have to start taking a case of sabots with me to my treestand so I don't miss-out on the herds of deer that will be tearing past my treestands. I just don't know if my shoulder can hold-up to all of the action.
I'll probably have to park my ATV & borrow my buddy's Timberjack skidder to drag out all of the carcasses.
2 days of hunting & a week of butchering & processing is about all that I can stand for one season....

[parson]

Git rid of them sabots and git one of them 30 round pcr's. Much easier on the shoulder.

[DEERTRACKS]

Jul 14, 2010 13:45:51 GMT -5 parson said:

Git rid of them sabots and git one of them 30 round pcr's. Much easier on the shoulder.

Great idea p! A .45 cal. Thompson machine gun would be sweet.

[deerman1]

Jul 14, 2010 10:14:36 GMT -5 Woody Williams said:

BTW - At the request of a former member I am researching the OHIO kill data. he likes Ohio data as long as it is not about crossbows..

I posted the OHio stats in another thread for you Woody and the numbers between In and Oh are not even in the same Universe !!

[mrfixit]

You can crunch the numbers all you like, in the end it's still the same story. Kill all the does you can with firearms but we must leave all the bucks for the real hunters aka bow hunting machines as they are the only ones self qualified to determine if a buck is old enough to harvest.


They have forgotten that if there are no does eventually there are no bucks. This is a fast track to the 60's and 70's size deer herd.

But hey they got the whole dang rut to themselves.

[Woody Williams]

YEAR... DATE OPEN..... ANTLERED....... ANTLERLESS
1999 November 13.... 35,482..... 35,452
2000 November 18..... 31,740..... 35,998
2001 November 17.... 33,660.... 34,298
2002 November 16.... 37,119.... 36,682
2003 November 15.... 36,961.... 34,637
2004 November 13.... 43,107.... 41,444
2005 November 12.... 40,104.... 44,560
2006 November 18.... 36,095.... 44,566
2007 November 17.... 36,138.... 44,524
2008 November 15.... 38,324.... 48,130
2009 November 14.... 38,921.... 44,175


.

[Woody Williams]

Difference From Previous Year

YEAR ....OPEN DATE ....ANTLERED.....ANTLERLESS
1999 November 13
2000 November 18.... -3,742...... 546
2001 November 17.... 1,920....... -1,700
2002 November 16.... 3,459....... 2,384
2003 November 15.... -158......... -2,045
2004 November 13.... 6,146....... 6,807
2005 November 12.... -3,003...... 3,116
2006 November 18.... -4,009...... 6
2007 November 17.... 43............ 42
2008 November 15.... 2,186....... 3,606
2009 November 14.... 597.......... -3,955

[Woody Williams]

Quite a flucuation going on here , isnt there?

And the IDNR is saying that the November 18th dates of 2000 and 2006 mean that buck hunters are shooting does.? A gain of 546 for 2000 and a gain of a whopping 6 does in 2006.


YEAR.....OPEN.......ANTLERED........ANTLERLESS

2000 November 18.... -3,742...... 546
2006 November 18.... -4,009...... 6


What about that those 12th and 13th opening dates in 2004 and 2005?


YEAR....OPEN .....ANTLERED.......ANTLERLESS

2004 November 13.... 6,146....... 6,807
2005 November 12.... -3,003...... 3,116



.

[Woody Williams]

How about thesse years?

What going on here if the IDNR theory is correct?


YEAR ....DATE OPEN....ANTLERED....ANTLERLESS

2004 November 13.... 6,146....... 6,807

2005 November 12.... -3,003...... 3,116

[Decatur]

I feel stupid. I cannot decipher all of these numbers to get any useful information out of them. Too many numbers makes my head hurt!

[js2397]

I know Ohio added some extra antlerless days a couple years ago any idea what the percentage increase was in the harvest from the previous year.

[deerman1]

Jul 14, 2010 20:29:38 GMT -5 js2397 said:

I know Ohio added some extra antlerless days a couple years ago any idea what the percentage increase was in the harvest from the previous year.

It was not huge a few thousand is all

Here a copy of what I posted on another thread.

Ok Ohio has over 800,000 deer and the I have the 2009 stats kill rates and Ohio blow us away big time they have 750,000 deer hunter sand half of thier archery hunters hunt with xbow as a coincindance just slightly under half of the deer that are shot in archeray are killed with xbow . Xbow hunters in OH .Kill twice the deer alond that our bowhunters kill then vertical archers kill twice agin what our bowhunters kill.

Now as harvest goes thay kill more deer with archery gear than we have total bowhunters .

Here are thier stats so nothing we do or is proposed is close in any sense of the word to Ohio .FYI they kill just slightly less than twice the buck numbers we do and 3 times the Antlerless.

Compairing Ohio to Indiana in deer hunting regs or numbers is like saying that Someones 6 year old is a flag dootball team QB and then compairing him and his stats to Peyton M.!!!

Table 1. Ohio's 2009-10 white-tailed deer harvest by season and percent change from previous year.
Season/hunt
The top numbers in each catagory is Antlered
The second number in each catagory is Antlerless
Then the total of bucks and does
Then the Total % Change +or -

Early Gun1
39,221
74,854
114,075
-2.9

Bonus Gun
5,582
14,473
20,055
19.8
Total Gun
44,803
89,327
134,130
-0.1


Crossbow
21,565
27,500
49,065
+5.6

Vertical Bow
16,829
25,652
42,481
+7.9
Total

Archery
38,394
53,152
91,546
+6.6

Salt Fork2
90
183
273
-13.3

Wildcat Hollow2
55
119
174
+8.1

Shawnee2
19
25
44
-51.1

Statewide Muzzleloader3
5,846
19,160
25,006
+19.3

Total Muzzleloader
6,010
19,487
25,497
+18.4

Statewide Youth
4,464
4,805
9,269
-4.4

NASA/Plumbrook
89
236
325
-3.8

Ravenna Hunt
69
192
261
-27.7

Season Total
93,905- Bucks
167,355 -Does
261,260 -grand total deer taken all seasons
+3.7

1Traditional gun season for deer of either sex, Nov. 30 - Dec. 6, 2009.
2Special early muzzleloader season Oct. 19-24, 2009.
3Statewide either-sex muzzleloader season Jan. 9-12, 2009

[vectrix]

Maybe we should all quit our jobs and get a job with the IDNR.