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Post by birddog on Jul 10, 2009 7:17:13 GMT -5
As I'm on a committee to form some new regulations on the gun range at our club I'm looking for suggestions or other club rules that I can take into consideration. We have a 100 yard range and I need to set a limit of some type on the size or caliber of a gun that can be fired on this range,now anything can and is being shot there and the big guns such as the 50 cal. BMR rifles or tearing things up pretty bad. So does anyone here have any suggestions as to the size or caliber of a weapon that can be shot here or know of anyone that I may contact with another gun club about their rules and regulations?
Thank for the help!!!!
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Post by danf on Jul 11, 2009 16:38:54 GMT -5
What is being torn up? Knowing what's being torn up might help with the suggestions. From my experience, it's not the guns that cause the issues, it's the idiots pulling the trigger. If you've got steel gongs, IIRC around 2000 fps is where damage starts to occur to the steel.
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Jul 12, 2009 23:38:28 GMT -5
Doesn't the NRA have a range consulting program? Worth a shot. Anyways hard to give out advice without knowing the layout of the range and surrounding area.
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Post by steiny on Jul 13, 2009 21:20:15 GMT -5
Biggest problems we have are slobs, trash and general idiots. A few ideas: 1. Paper targets only, no shooting cans, bottles, or other such items. 2. No steel targets or gongs. 3. Clean up and dispose of your targets, brass & casings when done shooting. 4. No shooting at targets placed midway on the range, place on the target frames only. 5. Eye and ear protection, no exceptions. 6. Call cease fire when going down range to change targets. 7. All guns unloaded with actions open during cease fire.
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Post by Decatur on Jul 14, 2009 16:48:01 GMT -5
Sound like good rules to me. No smoking when shooting muzzleloaders is another good one.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jul 16, 2009 15:32:35 GMT -5
Biggest problems we have are slobs, trash and general idiots. A few ideas: 1. Paper targets only, no shooting cans, bottles, or other such items. 2. No steel targets or gongs.3. Clean up and dispose of your targets, brass & casings when done shooting. 4. No shooting at targets placed midway on the range, place on the target frames only.5. Eye and ear protection, no exceptions. 6. Call cease fire when going down range to change targets. 7. All guns unloaded with actions open during cease fire. #2 is really unreasonable/arbitrary. I ONLY shoot where I can shoot steel. There is nothing inherently unsafe with shooting steel, and those of us who do it don't have any problem bringing our own high quality equipment and we are danged-sure not going to muck up our own stuff. My Gong can take hits from soft-point spitzers at up to 3300fps at point of impact. There is NOTHING better to shoot at at 100yds+ than steel. I don't use optics, and you need optics to check paper unless you want to spend most of your range time walking. Besides, ringing a 6" gong at 100yds with every shot from offhand is a better indicater of real-world/hunting accuracy than punching paper ever will be. metaltargets.com/Now, if you want to say "No steel at ranges less than 50yds" then there is some (limited) safety merit, but just consider that the CAS types regularly shoot at steel at significantly less than 25yds. ------------------------ Oh..., FWIW and depending on a couple of factors, #4 is pretty arbitrary too. Both of the NRA Certified Ranges I have been affiliated with have both permenant (fixed) target mounting points at intermediate yardage intervals as well as allowing for freestanding/movable targets anywhere from 5yds to 200yds. SO having targets at intermediate ranges is not a safety problem so long as cross-lane/diagonal firing is prohibited.
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Post by cedarthicket on Jul 16, 2009 21:25:45 GMT -5
Certainly at 100 yards and beyond steel gongs make very good targets for several purposes. However, at 50 yards and closer they may become a very serious safety hazard. They become hazardous when they become cratered by high velocity bullets. And, bullets do not have to be particularly high in velocity to crater mild steel. I was involved with handgun metallic silhouette shooting when it first came to Indiana many years ago. I can personally attest to the fact that any steel target that contains one or more craters can cause bullet fragments (whether from soft lead, hard lead, or jacketed bullets) to come all the way back from 50 meters to the firing line and break the skin (or eye) of a shooter or other person on the firing line. Hardened steel is more difficult to crater, but it can certainly be done with some high velocity bullets. So, if a club is considering hanging steel for any and all to shoot at informally I would strongly recommend that it not be placed closer than 100 yards from the firing line.
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Post by danf on Jul 16, 2009 22:20:09 GMT -5
Muzzle velocity below 2400 fps won't cause damage (cratering) to most normal steel targets. Might be hard to set a maximum fps threshold for a range that isn't dedicated to silhouettes though.
Regardless of range and/or steel, eye (and ear) protection should NOT be optional. I've heard and seen too much in the last year about case separation (especially in rimfires) to even think about shooting without either one.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jul 17, 2009 8:19:10 GMT -5
Didn't say "mild steel" did I? Mine is 500 Brinell Armorplate. I also don't think a CLUB should provide gongs etc unless they are a dedicated steel/sillouhette club. But I DO think the "rules" should "allow" an individual to bring his own Steel. People who buy or build their gongs aren't interested in punching holes in them, and are more than aware of the safety factors.
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Post by dbd870 on Jul 18, 2009 6:22:52 GMT -5
If I needed a place to shoot the steel rule might not keep me from joining a club it isn't going to encourage me to select that club either.
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Post by steiny on Jul 19, 2009 17:18:20 GMT -5
I don't disagree with you OIS, however the problem is based on what I have seen at my own range, and that is a bunch of uneducated knuckleheads placing cheap, home-made gongs and spinners at 25, 50 yards, midway down the ranges, etc. This can and will lead to bullets deflected somewhere that you don't want them to be.
Heck ...... One time I showed up, and some guys were shooting old LP tanks.
I like to shoot gongs too, and do it frequently at my home place, where myself and maybe a buddy or two are the only shooters.
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Post by dbd870 on Jul 20, 2009 7:08:58 GMT -5
Perhaps range mounted gongs only, can't bring your own?
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jul 20, 2009 8:50:04 GMT -5
The problem is, you can't fix stupid. And making "rules" that punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty is and always will be unethical.
That said, I would have no issues with signing a liability waver to bring my own steel - and neither should anyone else if they want to bring it.
dbd: the reason you can't have "Range Gongs" is because they WILL be destroyed by the Stupid. Somebody WILL shoot at them with Steel Core ammo - and that will mess up even 1/2" Armorplate Gongs.
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Post by dbd870 on Jul 20, 2009 9:31:25 GMT -5
It sounded like this was a private (membership) club to me.
Rule: Violate the ammo restrictions on steel and you are gone forever.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jul 20, 2009 12:45:31 GMT -5
It sounded like this was a private (membership) club to me. Rule: Violate the ammo restrictions on steel and you are gone forever. The problem is.... "Pove it". Without someone watching all the time you can't.
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Post by jackc99 on Jul 20, 2009 14:15:58 GMT -5
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jul 20, 2009 15:56:45 GMT -5
Dunno ANY ranges that allow a BMG... steel or no.
Besides, 200m is still "danger close" for a .50... as that video amply demonstrates - especially when the dummies behind the trigger are shooting at IMMOBILE steel.
Sillouhettes Fall, Gongs Swing, Pop-ups fall down. Riccochets come from steel that doesn't move in proportion to the impact recieved (i.e. my Gong is NOT for use with .22s)
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Jul 20, 2009 18:07:31 GMT -5
Oh fun reading the comments ...
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Post by single_shooter on Jul 21, 2009 15:27:13 GMT -5
by the way...no way that is a 50 unless it is seriously downloaded!!!
and the reason for the no targets at half way is because of that reason right there - if you miss the target the round can ricochet off the ground and go over the top of the backstop.
I have shot swinging steel plates at ranges of 1 to 10 meters with lead bullets during combat training courses - when we are done we have to shake the lead chunks out of our hair. If done properly it is safe, done wrong and i guarantee someone will get hurt.
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