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Post by Decatur on Feb 2, 2010 0:25:50 GMT -5
Neo-Pagans Get Worship Circle at Air Force Academy
Witches, Druids and pagans rejoice! The Air Force Academy in Colorado is about to recognize its first Wiccan prayer circle, a Stonehenge on the Rockies that will serve as an outdoor place of worship for the academy's neo-pagans.
Wiccan cadets and officers on the Colorado Springs base have been convening for over a decade, but the school will officially dedicate a newly built circle of stones on about March 10, putting the outdoor sanctuary on an equal footing with the Protestant, Catholic, Jewish and Buddhist chapels on the base.
"When I first arrived here, Earth-centered cadets didn't have anywhere to call home," said Sgt. Robert Longcrier, the lay leader of the neo-pagan groups on base.
"Now, they meet every Monday night, they get to go on retreats, and they have a stone circle."
Academy officials had no tally of the number of Wiccan cadets at the school of 4,500, but said they had been angling to set up a proper space since the academic year began.
"That's one of the newer groups," said John Van Winkle, a spokesman for the academy. "They've had a worship circle on base for some time and we're looking to get them an official one."
The Air Force recognizes several distinct forms of neo-paganism, including Dianic Wicca, Seax Wicca, Gardnerian Wicca, shamanism and Druidism, according to Pagan groups that track the information.
Since a 2004 survey of cadets on the base revealed dozens of instances of harassment and intolerance, superintendent Michael Gould has made religious tolerance a priority.
Yet Van Winkle, the academy spokesman, said he could not confirm whether the school's superintendent or senior staff would attend the dedication ceremony.
"(We) haven't gotten that far yet: First we have to get a date, and then once we get a date for the dedication ceremony we'll see who's going to be available for it," he told FoxNews.com.
"Once we get a date that's going to be the real driving force for who's going to attend."
If you believe in what the bible says, then this is wrong. If you don't, then it probably isn't to you. I don't think it shouldn't be there, a persons religion is there own, and this country was built on freedom of religion. Thoughts?
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Post by smokeeater on Feb 2, 2010 2:18:37 GMT -5
Decatur
As a graduate of the Air Force Academy, and a Christian, I am totally against this! I have been many years removed from the Academy life, and I do believe in freedom of religion, however, most cadets, myself included, would worship at religious institutions that were "off base" where we could exercise our right and freedom of religion. I am positive that there are prayer circles in Colorado Springs that would welcome additional members. IMO this "prayer circle" will add additional tension and harassment among the cadets.
Just my opinion.
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Post by kevin1 on Feb 2, 2010 7:10:19 GMT -5
The First Amendment is indeed a sword double edged, and the public practice of beliefs within the miltary structure has always been a razor's edge. If the Air Force renegs now and removes the circle should they not also remove the Christian chapel that's been there since the beginning? Freedom of religion demands tolerance of all of them, or even a lack of one, if one's own beliefs are to be respected. My own view is "All in or none".
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Post by crazybuck on Feb 2, 2010 8:57:35 GMT -5
The First Amendment is indeed a sword double edged, and the public practice of beliefs within the miltary structure has always been a razor's edge. If the Air Force renegs now and removes the circle should they not also remove the Christian chapel that's been there since the beginning? Freedom of religion demands tolerance of all of them, or even a lack of one, if one's own beliefs are to be respected. My own view is "All in or none". Well my opinion is yes they should leave the church there, since it was there from the beginnning. My view is that this country was founded on Christian principles. Christians who left England to settle in this country at Plymouth Rock. Our government was founded on Christian principles and there have been those who have been trying to eliminate it from Americas Culture for years. They would like to rewrite history to say this wasn't the case. Thats why Moses and the Ten Commandments are carved into the stone on the front of the Supeme Court, because of the influence it had on America. Other Government buildings also have these carvings. There are other countries with different Cultures who wouldn't give this equality. This is Political Correctness that has creeped into this country. ACLU is responsible for most of this. I would have to listen to the argument on whether or not the First Amendment would give this right. I know it gives freedom of speech. |
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Post by trapperdave on Feb 2, 2010 9:10:19 GMT -5
this is a free country, was founded as such. to each his own. I cant believe anyone would be so against it.....just because its not your belief?  tsk tsk this country was founded by people wanting to get away from the Kings church, so they could worship as they please....and others could too. FREEDOM OF RELIGION... and YOU dont get to pick n choose what religions are free. It was so important to our founding forefathers, that it was the VERY FIRST SENTENCE in the BILL OF RIGHTS..... "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..." |
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Post by swilk on Feb 2, 2010 9:15:18 GMT -5
Seems some folks are very tolerant of others beliefs ........ as long as those beliefs mirror their own.
My thoughts on this have remained true ..... either allow them all or get rid of them all. Doesnt make me a bit of difference.
To have the opinion that we were founded as a Christian nation, or on Christian principles .... and ignore the significance and meaning of the First Amendment ...... just seems strange to me.
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Post by crazybuck on Feb 2, 2010 9:32:23 GMT -5
I don't have a problem respecting everyones religion as this country has always done and I am not saying that they should not provide the circle. What I do have a problem with is Lawyers trying to take to Christianity out of everything. You can just look at your currency and see that this country was founded on Christian principles.
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Post by swilk on Feb 2, 2010 9:38:08 GMT -5
uuummm ... I dont think In God We Trust was added to our coin currency until the 1860's and to our paper currency until the 1950's.
Wasnt our country founded long before that?
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Post by trapperdave on Feb 2, 2010 10:35:15 GMT -5
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Post by crazybuck on Feb 2, 2010 10:48:15 GMT -5
uuummm ... I dont think In God We Trust was added to our coin currency until the 1860's and to our paper currency until the 1950's. Wasnt our country founded long before that? Sure was, but don't you consider George Washington a founder. Regardless it was added because most of this nation was Christian. I don't have a problem with respect to other religions. Lets make sure that they ACLU stands up for Christians rights as well as other Religious Rights. |
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Post by trapperdave on Feb 2, 2010 11:20:23 GMT -5
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Post by crazybuck on Feb 2, 2010 11:38:48 GMT -5
I don't put much faith in Wikipedia. My understanding is that about anybody can have input to it. However since you are quoting it, here is a link on the history of the currency. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust |
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Post by trapperdave on Feb 2, 2010 11:57:56 GMT -5
mention of God was first put on coins in 1864, dont need to check your link to know that.
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Post by crazybuck on Feb 2, 2010 12:08:20 GMT -5
Yes. Have a good one.
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 2, 2010 12:20:39 GMT -5
My only question is where does it all end?
If a cadet said my "religion" requires me to smoke a joint before dancing around a campfire naked as a jay bird chainting "Big Bird is great" does the AF have to allow that?
A line HAS to be drawn somewhere..
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Post by Russ Koon on Feb 2, 2010 13:14:04 GMT -5
Good question.
Dancing naked in a circle during a Colorado winter could probably be considered extreme training, with or without the chants.
How about if the recruits converted to a belief that didn't allow participation in the harming of others in war? Like the Quakers? Are they then allowed to remain in the servce but placed in other positions of support that allow them to put their obedience to their faith above their obedience to their military obligations? You know, like the Christian recruits can? Hmmmm.
The line that needs to be drawn may turn out to be less than a straight one.
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Post by kevin1 on Feb 2, 2010 14:45:38 GMT -5
My only question is where does it all end? If a cadet said my "religion" requires me to smoke a joint before dancing around a campfire naked as a jay bird chainting "Big Bird is great" does the AF have to allow that? A line HAS to be drawn somewhere.. The line has already been drawn with regard to drug use, if you use drugs you're rejected for military service, if you use while in you get discharged. No exemption is made for "religious drug use". As for the dancing naked while chanting part, well... let's just say that I know for a fact they don't much care for that either, and leave it at that.  BTW, Arlington cemetery recently erected the first headstone with a pentagram on it to reflect the fact that the hero buried there was a Satanist. His family fought for years to get that headstone as it was their son's actual theological belief. Should we all go to Arlington and smash his marker because it reflects an anti-christian value? How about the thousands with Stars of David on them? There's no difference, right? Anybody want to lead that charge? I didn't think so...  |
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Post by crazybuck on Feb 2, 2010 14:50:21 GMT -5
My only question is where does it all end? If a cadet said my "religion" requires me to smoke a joint before dancing around a campfire naked as a jay bird chainting "Big Bird is great" does the AF have to allow that? A line HAS to be drawn somewhere.. The line has already been drawn with regard to drug use, if you use drugs you're rejected for military service, if you use while in you get discharged. No exemption is made for "religious drug use". As for the dancing naked while chanting part, well... let's just say that I know for a fact they don't much care for that either, and leave it at that. The line is drawn right now, but no where permanent. If somebody's religion requires smoking a joint, the ACLU would be all over that in court! |
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Post by huxbux on Feb 2, 2010 20:06:42 GMT -5
The First Amendment is indeed a sword double edged, and the public practice of beliefs within the miltary structure has always been a razor's edge. If the Air Force renegs now and removes the circle should they not also remove the Christian chapel that's been there since the beginning? Freedom of religion demands tolerance of all of them, or even a lack of one, if one's own beliefs are to be respected. My own view is "All in or none". My opinion as well. I prefer that the practice of all religions be allowed rather than prohibited. |
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Post by kevin1 on Feb 5, 2010 11:59:21 GMT -5
It just crossed the line toward stupidity: www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584886,00.html?test=latestnews Why didn't the perpetrators just set it on fire as well? You have no right to demand respect for your beliefs when you're willing to demonstrate such blatant disrespect for someone else's. I'm not sure what academy policy is on this matter, but it should include expulsion if cadets are involved. |
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