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Post by mythic1 on Mar 30, 2010 16:03:20 GMT -5
Obviously "Russ Koon" is in the lets kill everything that threatens humans category so i guess he would exterminate about 95% of the human species as well as all large carnivore's. I pray this fellow is not coming to a neighborhood near you soon !! LOL
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Post by barton174 on Mar 30, 2010 16:05:15 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humanswww.wildlife.alaska.gov/pubs/techpubs/research_pdfs/techb13p1.pdf(replace "1.pdf" at the end with the next number ("2.pdf"), until you're done reading) You and your son almost certainly would NOT have been attacked by wolves in the woods that night, unless you had a dog with you, of course. North American wolves normally stay away from humans, to the point of abandoning killed prey when a human walks up. North American wolves are much more scared of and timid around humans than Eurasian wolves. Most wolf encounters are because the wolf is rabid, or because it's been fed by humans, and has lost its fear of us. (These are the wolves I'm saying to kill, like they currently do everywhere else) As of 2000 (through the 90's) (when the wolf population was 59k - 70k in AK and Canada alone, let alone the thousands in the lower 48 (there are >3000 in MN alone)), there were 16 people non-life-threateningly bitten by non-rabid wolves in the US and Canada, but in 6 of those cases, bites were severe. On the 8th of this month, the first person on American soil in over 50 years to -apparently- be killed by wolves was found. A teacher who was jogging in AK. They assume she was killed by them, but it's unknown how or why (running away from any predator incites a chase. She could have been killed after falling. It's unknown whether they were rabid or not. It's unknown which wolves it was. Who knows) Around the world, the lion's share of wolf attacks happen in the mid-late summer, when the cubs starting eating solid food. "Mass killing of kids on a playground" despite wolves nearly always picking one member of a group to attack, in the rare instance that they do attack? Apparently, Native Americans were attacked by wolves, some, but after the rifle got to be widespread, the wolves apparently took humans off the menu, and the wolf attacks stopped very abruptly. Who was talking about the lack of wolf attacks in places where they don't exist and saying that meant they weren't apex predators? It sure wasn't me. To tell you the truth, I wasn't originally completely on the side I'm ending up on (rather, was just arguing that they weren't invasive, and saying that I wouldn't personally shoot one if it were minding its own business), but when prompted by other posters, so as to not talk out of my arse, I have been researching the facts. After looking into the facts (as opposed to the fear and speculation), I'm less concerned about wolves than I was when we began this conversation. ETA: No, we don't have the stomach for poisoning, etc., any more... However, if they do get to the point of being plentiful enough to be a problem, there will be enough of them to hunt... and the ones that get killed from the hunting will more than likely be the ones that strayed too close to humans, anyway. Mike
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Post by mythic1 on Mar 30, 2010 16:05:35 GMT -5
So apparently Barton and Mythic feel that we shouldn't shoot the large predators living amongst us until they have killed a sufficient number of people to justify such a reaction. Tell me, oh wise and reasonable ones, how many of our children will have to be killed and eaten to be a statistically justifiable reason to shoot the animals responsible? Do you have a target number in mind? Has it crossed your mind that the reason there have been no recorded deaths in modern times in Indiana from predation by large carnivores is due to the fact that our great grandfathers had the good sense to exptirpate them to prevent that very occurrence, and not because there are some "good" wolves who would starve their own young rather than take one of ours from the school bus stop? Do you feel that extirpation was a mistake and that we should have been suffering a "reasonable" loss of people to them all along, to be justified in trying to rid our woods and fields of that danger? Just going into the woods and fields where other humans carry firearms is dangerous is it not ??
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Post by mythic1 on Mar 30, 2010 16:09:32 GMT -5
So apparently Barton and Mythic feel that we shouldn't shoot the large predators living amongst us until they have killed a sufficient number of people to justify such a reaction. Tell me, oh wise and reasonable ones, how many of our children will have to be killed and eaten to be a statistically justifiable reason to shoot the animals responsible? Do you have a target number in mind? Has it crossed your mind that the reason there have been no recorded deaths in modern times in Indiana from predation by large carnivores is due to the fact that our great grandfathers had the good sense to exptirpate them to prevent that very occurrence, and not because there are some "good" wolves who would starve their own young rather than take one of ours from the school bus stop? Do you feel that extirpation was a mistake and that we should have been suffering a "reasonable" loss of people to them all along, to be justified in trying to rid our woods and fields of that danger? hmmm by that reasoning, we should DESTROY all dogs at once! Do you realize how many thousands of dogbites our poor children suffer from each year? And how many children die from attacks by pets? Its our moral obligation to destroy them now!! How many injured or dead children is acceptable?? tongue in cheek of course. Get my point yet? Yep guess "Russ Koon" wants everyone to kill their pets now
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Post by Woody Williams on Mar 30, 2010 16:36:22 GMT -5
hmmm by that reasoning, we should DESTROY all dogs at once! Do you realize how many thousands of dogbites our poor children suffer from each year? And how many children die from attacks by pets? Its our moral obligation to destroy them now!! How many injured or dead children is acceptable?? tongue in cheek of course. Get my point yet? Yep guess "Russ Koon" wants everyone to kill their pets now First off....I want to know exactly why you are putting the name Russ Koon in quotations marks.
Then I'll decide where this thread goes or doesn't go.
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Post by dadfsr on Mar 30, 2010 19:00:18 GMT -5
Once again Woody-where's that ignore button?? I just refuse to take the bait of an obvious troll on here....don't know why people on here are even replying to him/her!!
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Post by Indyhunter on Mar 30, 2010 23:11:56 GMT -5
Barton, although our opinions may differ at least you can speak your mind with some facts to back your opinions and that I can respect. Whether right, wrong, or indifferent, you back up your opinion with some research. Others are just around to stir the pot and start to mumble when backed in a corner.
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Post by barton174 on Mar 31, 2010 6:52:36 GMT -5
Thanks. I think the issue with this is; there really isn't a "right" or a "wrong" answer... It's a situation that has multiple sides, and will have multiple opinions... MN was about half and half over the re-introduction before it happened, and is now more for it, now that they've got >3000 wolves in the state, and have had no attacks... It's probaby sort of a moot point, anyway, because we've probably already got part-wolves running around anyway... Notice the way the 'yotes have gotten larger over the last few years?? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coywolf It says the hybrids get inbred pretty quickly, and get infertile, but that doesn't happen when you get one hybrid that breeds with a regular yote... % of wolf goes down, but is still there, and the animal will be bigger... Who knows? Mike
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Post by dadfsr on Mar 31, 2010 7:18:48 GMT -5
When we get the black bear and elk back in Indiana then I'll worrying about this
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Post by bradley300 on Mar 31, 2010 9:11:29 GMT -5
if i saw them while i was outside near my home i would probably shoot 1 or 2 just to get some good mounts out of them, but i wouldnt ever worry about hunting them unless a specific one was said to be a problem. no sense killing themif they can get the deer population under control. deer are the real killers all over the country, how many people have died in deer/car accidents thanks to thier largest predator (wolves) being extricated from the state?
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Post by mythic1 on Mar 31, 2010 18:34:43 GMT -5
Excellent point "bradley300" very well stated and true no arguing that statement.
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