Race related crimes in America

[michaeladkins]

I'm not sure if the numbers are accurate but if they are, there is an issue with race related crimes. Wow! OR it could have nothing to do with race whatsoever and it is just crimes.

I have never heard of this guy before, so it could be just a bunch of crap. Interesting.

youtu.be/iGTUcS-yQtQ

[tenring]

There was nothing in that video that wasn't above board and the truth, unfortunately.

[Genesis 27:3]

Seems accurate. And yes, it is unfortunate.

[Russ Koon]

Things can be misleading and still technically accurate.

Comparing crime stats on a racial basis alone ignores completely the social and economic status of the criminal.

To be truly accurate, the comparison would need to be between sample populations in areas where the economic and educational opportunities are actually equal, and there is a similar attitude towards education and a clean record among the surrounding society.

I recall my grandfather on mom's side telling of his extremely short formal education, and his inherited disregard for "book learning", which passed down to his youngest son, although the older ones all had considerable respect for the value of a good technical/vocational education and became certified welders and tradesmen.

Grandpa did have a respect for education, much more than FORMAL education, and taught himself to read and write, learned the blacksmithing trade by apprenticing, and a few other trades by necessity as opportunities arose. He was half Cherokee, and at the time he was a child, that carried considerable negative stigma still.

Many of the white kids from his dirt-poor background and social status grew up in trouble with the law, if they grew up at all.

Still that way in some areas. Compare the crime stats from areas of Appalachia with those of inner-city areas and you'll find the numbers to be much closer, I suspect.

Does that excuse their behavior? Of course not. But it does put the comparison where it really belongs ....between people who have had a relatively similar family educational background and social attitude towards law and order.

Would WE have grown up to be such Straight-Arrows without the influence of a family that respected the law and a social atmosphere of such respect? Anyone here who NEVER tasted the thrill of swiping anything...even raiding the melon patch a few doors down when you were maybe ten years old, or boosting some small item from the drugstore on the corner while you were still a pre-teen, just for the excitement or for the feeling of inclusion in the conversation when your buddies were trading stories about doing the same kind of thing? And that peer pressure is NO comparison for the pressure to join the local gang and commit something more serious that many city kids today face.

The video does a good job of illustrating the abuse of statistics by the apologists in minimizing the racial aspects of the situation, but at the same time doesn't mention the fact that the comparison between people "based entirely on skin color" is a gross misrepresentation because no such comparison is actually being made.
The comparison illustrated by his truth, (everyone has their own now), is between kids who have mostly grown up in an area where the schools are very sub-standard, the prevailing attitudes are among peers and classmates towards any authority figures are far more rebellious, and the local "heroes" are not so much the kid that made Eagle in the local Scout troop, as the one who is "made" by the local drug wholesaler and controls the area's lucrative trade. And the good kids that TRY to buck the trend in their area are often beaten up, maybe worse, and sometimes get no serious positive feedback from the heads of their household.

If Mr. Whittle has the charts to show a comparison between kids of different skin tones and the SAME backgrounds in social and economic conditions for a few generations, I'd like him to make another vid reflecting that info.

Until then, using just his race-only comparison in comparing the two vastly differing population segments is just as misleading, even if technically accurate, as the misleading statements of the opponents. I suspect he knows that.

[kevin1]

Blaming it on your economic status is a cop out, I grew up poor, stayed that way a good chunk of my life, and never committed a crime. It has nothing to do with economic status, it has everything to do with your values, or lack of them.

[Genesis 27:3]

Sept 14, 2014 12:24:15 GMT -5 kevin1 said:

Blaming it on your economic status is a cop out, I grew up poor, stayed that way a good chunk of my life, and never committed a crime. It has nothing to do with economic status, it has everything to do with your values, or lack of them.

[Decatur]

+2!

[Russ Koon]

I get the impression that some may have misunderstood my post above to be saying that poverty was an excuse for criminal behavior. That would be incorrect.

Poverty IS a FACTOR, regardless of race. There are a great many people who "grew up poor" and still became law-abiding responsible citizens. There are also a great many people who grew up black and became law-abiding, responsible citizens.

The thread concerns the relationship of race to crime. My point is that race appears to be a factor when only the numbers taking that one factor into consideration are used.

When more factors are included in the comparison, the results are less clear. Look at the figures for criminal involvement among white people who grew up in tough inner-city neighborhoods in Chicago or Philly or Boston, and see what the percentages are.

So, if we are to compare criminal behavior with race, why are we doing so? Is it not to establish race as being the causative factor, or at least AN important causative factor?

If so, then simply asking whether a higher percentage of "us" or "them" ends up doing crime, without taking the other factors into consideration in the comparison, is playing on a very tilted field, to get the desired answer.

Comparing on the basis of race alone may yield the results desired by the person asking the question, but is that an accurate answer to a complex question?

Consider this...are Amish men genetically programmed to be superior carpenters? Is it in their genetic makeup, or is it because they stand a much greater chance at being involved in the activity since childhood and guided along the way by revered elders showing them an important tool for their futures? I doubt that you'll find as many of them who don't know one end of the hammer from the other as you'll find among "the English", but I also doubt that genetics plays as important a part in that comparison as environmental influences such as training and the respect in the household for skilled craftsmen.

So which is the better determining factor in whether or not the man will end up being skilled carpenter, his race? His family history? The poverty level on his community? Or the environment in his community regarding education in a very common trade, and the respect for those who accomplish something in that field?

And if you were looking for good carpenter for a project, based only on religious background, you'd probably lean towards the Amish applicant. But what if you were looking for an electronics expert? Or a cardiologist?

The value of the person has many facets, and the effect of his background has varied effects on his abilities and responses. Comparisons based on one factor and ignoring other pertinent ones are flawed, at best, and intentionally biased at worst.

The old adage about not judging another until you've walked a mile in his shoes , IMO, has much more value than the chart on racial comparisons and criminal activities.

[kevin1]

Perhaps I should have clarified:
I grew up poor, came from a home with a nearly absent father, struggled in school, hung out with dope heads and other riff raff. I have sold dope, used it, cut school so often that I failed the same grade twice. In short, I went through nearly every environmental factor that is currently used as an excuse for failure and dependency, yet I am neither dependent, nor a failure. I am also not a criminal, though I was in the past. I got to where I am through sheer determination, and without assistance from anyone for the simple reason that I have lived among those without ambition, and found that I had zero desire to become one of them. Yes, I could still be slinging dope and making a fortune doing it, that would be the easy way out. Sure, I could lie in wait for the unwary and rob them, or rob businesses, but that mentality disgusts and repels me. Criminals always take the easier path, which is why they're parasites. Poverty and environment may be factors in one's choices in life, but at the end of the day it's character that separates the deadwood from the productive citizen. Character comes from rising above your shortcomings, not falling victim to them.

[jjas]

Oct 12, 2014 11:13:07 GMT -5 kevin1 said:

Perhaps I should have clarified:
I grew up poor, came from a home with a nearly absent father, struggled in school, hung out with dope heads and other riff raff. I have sold dope, used it, cut school so often that I failed the same grade twice. In short, I went through nearly every environmental factor that is currently used as an excuse for failure and dependency, yet I am neither dependent, nor a failure. I am also not a criminal, though I was in the past. I got to where I am through sheer determination, and without assistance from anyone for the simple reason that I have lived among those without ambition, and found that I had zero desire to become one of them. Yes, I could still be slinging dope and making a fortune doing it, that would be the easy way out. Sure, I could lie in wait for the unwary and rob them, or rob businesses, but that mentality disgusts and repels me. Criminals always take the easier path, which is why they're parasites. Poverty and environment may be factors in one's choices in life, but at the end of the day it's character that separates the deadwood from the productive citizen. Character comes from rising above your shortcomings, not falling victim to them.

I admire your ability to straighten your life out, but I have to ask a couple of questions. Did you have help to straighten out from a mentor? Were you ever arrested and convicted? If so, was it as a juvenile or adult? How many times? Were they felony or misdemeanor convictions? If you were convicted of a felony, did you start a business of your own (if so, how did you secure the financing) or did you find an employer willing to give you a second chance?

If you don't wish to answer for privavcy reasons, that's certainly understandable, but your story is interesting and perhaps could be an inspiration for others who find themselves in a situation similar to your past.

[Russ Koon]

I agree completely with that statement, Kevin1.

It would be interesting to know of the positive influences in your life that affected your decisions. I know in my case, my parents were there, and respected law and order and doing things the right way. But without the positive influence of a grandmother also in the household, gently nudging us in the right direction without "taking over", we would likely have fallen deeper into a few pitfalls along the way. With both parents busy with their jobs and the the stress of making ends meet, the time and energy for private counseling among five kids was kinda short.

Some of the buddies I ran around with were from broken homes. I know one of them in a home without a Mom and with a father who was very busy with his business, got lots of guidance from a black nanny who resembled the picture on the Aunt Jemimah's box more than anyone else I have ever seen. I got to hear her guiding words to him several times. She seemed to be a trusted source of good advice who was not so strict as to be unreasonable in holding the reins on a pre-teen.

Another factor that probably helped me stay on the more-or-less straight and narrow was the family move into a remote part of the county when I was 14. Lot harder to get into trouble when you would have ride your bike fifteen miles on mostly gravel roads to find it. And the country kids at the tiny HS were a fun-loving bunch who might get into some minor mischief, but were not going to steal stuff or hold anyone up.

Again, environmental influences and peer pressures that helped a bunch, even though it would be hard to recall any one instance that stands out.

Not everyone grows up with the same influences weighing on their decision making process. A few such gentle nudges at the right time in a kid's life can be VERY important, as they start making up their own minds on issues.

And of course back then we had Hoppy, Gene, and Roy showing us how to deal with moral and legal issues every week on TV, and The Duke leading us when we could get to a theater on an occasional weekend.

[kevin1]

Oct 12, 2014 11:59:03 GMT -5 jjas said:

Oct 12, 2014 11:13:07 GMT -5 kevin1 said:

Perhaps I should have clarified:
I grew up poor, came from a home with a nearly absent father, struggled in school, hung out with dope heads and other riff raff. I have sold dope, used it, cut school so often that I failed the same grade twice. In short, I went through nearly every environmental factor that is currently used as an excuse for failure and dependency, yet I am neither dependent, nor a failure. I am also not a criminal, though I was in the past. I got to where I am through sheer determination, and without assistance from anyone for the simple reason that I have lived among those without ambition, and found that I had zero desire to become one of them. Yes, I could still be slinging dope and making a fortune doing it, that would be the easy way out. Sure, I could lie in wait for the unwary and rob them, or rob businesses, but that mentality disgusts and repels me. Criminals always take the easier path, which is why they're parasites. Poverty and environment may be factors in one's choices in life, but at the end of the day it's character that separates the deadwood from the productive citizen. Character comes from rising above your shortcomings, not falling victim to them.

I admire your ability to straighten your life out, but I have to ask a couple of questions. Did you have help to straighten out from a mentor? Were you ever arrested and convicted? If so, was it as a juvenile or adult? How many times? Were they felony or misdemeanor convictions? If you were convicted of a felony, did you start a business of your own (if so, how did you secure the financing) or did you find an employer willing to give you a second chance?

If you don't wish to answer for privacy reasons, that's certainly understandable, but your story is interesting and perhaps could be an inspiration for others who find themselves in a situation similar to your past.

I have no secrets, my turn around was largely of my own making, you get sick of looking over your shoulder after awhile. I did have positive influences such as my high school ROTC teachers, both were better fathers to me than my own ever was. I also had a strong maternal Grandmother who taught me a great deal. The only time I was ever arrested was at age 12 for shoplifting. Stupid really, I was boosting a cap pistol and caps for my younger brother(it was his birthday and I was broke). Probably my strongest positive influence was the time I spent in the Navy, I learned a great deal from those years about being a responsible person, I only wish that I had treated them better at the time. I don't have a business, although I have considered doing so, but I have held a job at the same place for 27 years now, and am considered a somewhat valuable asset. I've raised four kids, and I like to joke that they grew up under the toughest standards on earth, mine. I practice what I preach, and only once did one of my kids catch me in a moment of hypocrisy. My word is quite literally my bond, everyone says that, but living up to it is much harder than most can imagine. My children would attest that I would literally rather die than go back on my word. I adopted the concept of honor as my guiding principle long ago, and have lived by it ever since. That, more than anything else, is what straightened me out.

[jjas]

Thanks for the reply. It's good to see you had a few good influences in your life, but (more importantly) it's good that you were smart and listened/learned from those good influences.