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Post by piercings4u on Dec 3, 2014 9:34:30 GMT -5
Do you practice with ear plugs and glasses on? How bad is the recoil? Now, if you hunt from a standing position, try shooting at paper exactly the way you hunt and see how the gun and shooter group. Now you have a baseline on how well the gun shoots from a bench. You might be closing your eyes from the recoil or the noise. Like I said in my earlier post, when I shot the deer earlier this year, I watched the bullet throw leaves in teh air when it hit the ground on the other side of the deer, so that means that my eyes are open during the shot. Have a friend go to the range with you, and have them put the primer in the gun for you (or not put it in the gun). That will tell you if you are following through after the shot or jerking the gun around. FWIW, if it was my gun, I'd do more testing to find a load that was more accurate. For me, a 2" group at 30 yds isn't accurate enough, iron sights or not. Get yourself an accurate pellet gun and a pellet trap. Shoot lots of practice shots at home, it will help you become a better shooter without having to make trips to the range and it's cheap to shoot. No need to get a pellet gun that shoots 1,000+ fps, one that shoots 600 fps is more than enough for what you are going to use it for. The 30 yard shots were all stacked on each other..almost making one hole..how is this a two inch group?
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Post by piercings4u on Dec 3, 2014 9:35:11 GMT -5
Do you practice with ear plugs and glasses on? How bad is the recoil? Now, if you hunt from a standing position, try shooting at paper exactly the way you hunt and see how the gun and shooter group. Now you have a baseline on how well the gun shoots from a bench. You might be closing your eyes from the recoil or the noise. Like I said in my earlier post, when I shot the deer earlier this year, I watched the bullet throw leaves in teh air when it hit the ground on the other side of the deer, so that means that my eyes are open during the shot. Have a friend go to the range with you, and have them put the primer in the gun for you (or not put it in the gun). That will tell you if you are following through after the shot or jerking the gun around. FWIW, if it was my gun, I'd do more testing to find a load that was more accurate. For me, a 2" group at 30 yds isn't accurate enough, iron sights or not. Get yourself an accurate pellet gun and a pellet trap. Shoot lots of practice shots at home, it will help you become a better shooter without having to make trips to the range and it's cheap to shoot. No need to get a pellet gun that shoots 1,000+ fps, one that shoots 600 fps is more than enough for what you are going to use it for. The 30 yard shots were all stacked on each other..almost making one hole..how is this a two inch group?
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Post by piercings4u on Dec 3, 2014 9:45:24 GMT -5
Shooting is more than just lining up the sights and pulling the trigger. The shot does not stop when the trigger is pulled. You have to follow through by continuing to focus on the sights, the trigger squeeze, the target. When you feel recoil continue to concentrate on the sights until the push is over and you come back forward you can then relax. I think you have a flinch that comes and goes based on the eye closing. Flinching can be caused by a lot of factors like a hard recoiling gun, pressure to make a good shot, lack of confidence in your ability to make the shot, poor fitting gun and on... How does your gun fit you in hunting clothes? Do your sights line up natural or do you have to work to get your sight picture? When I made my flintlock I made it about an inch and a quarter shorter than I would build for summer shooting to allow for heavy coats during deer season. I can still shoot it fine in a tee shirt though. One thing I know for sure is it is much easier to develop a flinch than to cure it. Shooting with record keeping to track progress will help. Like Essup said a good pellet rifle can really help, low noise and recoil Also his being able to see impact after shooting the deer is great follow through. A lot of stuff for a post. My gun is the cva optima...and it does seem rather long for my build..i do notice that when i go to shoulder it i have to extend my arms out almost straight to clear the butt stock...then once shouldered it feels my arm is over extended to hold it...i always thought this gun seemed long ever since i bought it..
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Post by firstwd on Dec 3, 2014 16:59:12 GMT -5
Length of pull can be a huge factor in accuracy.
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Post by sakorifle on Dec 3, 2014 19:05:47 GMT -5
greetings i know nothing about muzzle loaders but a little about rifles. And honestly you are going to have to beat the eyes closing business before you have any hope of putting those shots together reliably, when you close your eyes you are flinching. You should not even be thinking of the rifle going off, if it has a heavy trigger it needs looked at. Once it does go off follow through just like a bow, you need time on the range my friend. If you suspect the rifle give it to another person to try, but i really don't think it is. regards Billy
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Post by schoolmaster on Dec 3, 2014 19:32:23 GMT -5
You should be able to call your shot i.e. tell exactly where the front sight was when the gun fired.
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Post by piercings4u on Dec 3, 2014 23:34:32 GMT -5
greetings i know nothing about muzzle loaders but a little about rifles. And honestly you are going to have to beat the eyes closing business before you have any hope of putting those shots together reliably, when you close your eyes you are flinching. You should not even be thinking of the rifle going off, if it has a heavy trigger it needs looked at. Once it does go off follow through just like a bow, you need time on the range my friend. If you suspect the rifle give it to another person to try, but i really don't think it is. regards Billy Im going to do a lot of shooting after the season is over...ive got to try to break myself of closing my eyes...i don't know if its something i just started doing or if i have always done it...either way its gotta go
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Post by firstwd on Dec 3, 2014 23:46:17 GMT -5
I have blinked at the noise my entire life, but I still manage to stack groups inside of an inch out well over 100 yards. The involuntary eye reflex is much less important than pulling your head off the comb or shoulder french from the kick.
Some time try backing your powder charge off and see how things go. You can build the charge back up as you get any other issues worked out. That is the greatest thing about teaching kids to shoot with muzzle loaders.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 4, 2014 6:21:13 GMT -5
Add crossbows to that too.
One needs to not lift their head and move the bow until the arrow hits the mark. The "lock time" on a crossbow is very slow. I try to watch my arrow in the scope until it hits the target
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Post by esshup on Dec 5, 2014 15:10:15 GMT -5
Do you practice with ear plugs and glasses on? How bad is the recoil? Now, if you hunt from a standing position, try shooting at paper exactly the way you hunt and see how the gun and shooter group. Now you have a baseline on how well the gun shoots from a bench. You might be closing your eyes from the recoil or the noise. Like I said in my earlier post, when I shot the deer earlier this year, I watched the bullet throw leaves in teh air when it hit the ground on the other side of the deer, so that means that my eyes are open during the shot. Have a friend go to the range with you, and have them put the primer in the gun for you (or not put it in the gun). That will tell you if you are following through after the shot or jerking the gun around. FWIW, if it was my gun, I'd do more testing to find a load that was more accurate. For me, a 2" group at 30 yds isn't accurate enough, iron sights or not. Get yourself an accurate pellet gun and a pellet trap. Shoot lots of practice shots at home, it will help you become a better shooter without having to make trips to the range and it's cheap to shoot. No need to get a pellet gun that shoots 1,000+ fps, one that shoots 600 fps is more than enough for what you are going to use it for. The 30 yard shots were all stacked on each other..almost making one hole..how is this a two inch group? I went back and re-read your post. You are correct, I misread your post on where the shots landed. If the 30- yd shots all landed on top of each other, then the 40 and 50 yd shots should be very close to each other too. I agree with Billy, more range time is needed to get you more comfortable. A longer stock will typically have less felt recoil than a short stock, but if the stock is too long that's a problem too. Can it be shortened? Can the recoil pad be swapped out for a shorter one? Have the trigger pull checked to see how much force it takes to make the ML go bang. I don't like my triggers to be any more than 4#, and really like them closer to 3# (or less) with no creep before they let go. Get something that is easy and relatively cheap to shoot and practice, practice, practice.
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Post by esshup on Dec 5, 2014 15:12:48 GMT -5
Add crossbows to that too. One needs to not lift their head and move the bow until the arrow hits the mark. The "lock time" on a crossbow is very slow. I try to watch my arrow in the scope until it hits the target If you use lighted nocks you really get a better understanding of the trajectory of the arrow!! The first time I shot it at 50 yes I was amazed at how high the arrow went before hitting the target.
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Post by sakorifle on Dec 5, 2014 16:18:43 GMT -5
Greetings I also have 're read the post, ok if your rifle is putting one hole in at 30yrs, then at a hundred it is going to be well in the limits. Firstly if you zero from a bench, don't expect any rifle to be bang on to the same zero if fired another way, it won't happen, If you were shooting at fifty yards without a rest and expecting to put one hole in, well I can't do it,that is Olympic stuff with fancy harnesses and coats on. I only ever shoot off hand in an emergency, humane dispatch. I always use sticks to rest my rifle, for accuracy. The duke was obviously a better shot than me. Lol I think that is what you said, off bench ok, free hand not happy with? Regards Billy
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 5, 2014 17:54:06 GMT -5
Add crossbows to that too. One needs to not lift their head and move the bow until the arrow hits the mark. The "lock time" on a crossbow is very slow. I try to watch my arrow in the scope until it hits the target If you use lighted nocks you really get a better understanding of the trajectory of the arrow!! The first time I shot it at 50 yes I was amazed at how high the arrow went before hitting the target. That is the ARCH in archery.. Lighted nocks? Oh yeah... They really help on visibilty That
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Post by Russ Koon on Dec 9, 2014 12:40:01 GMT -5
Shooting weapons with slower lock time (that tiny fraction of a second between the "break" of the trigger and the projectile being free of the weapon) is VERY instructive regarding the importance of follow-through to accuracy.
I "knew that in my head" from many years of shooting my .22 rifles, but when I started shooting ML's I began with a long-barreled flintlock that REALLY impressed that knowledge on me. Shooting that flinter was the best lesson I ever took in developing proper form for offhand shooting. When you can finally shoot offhand well with a hammer causing an explosion of sparks and a flash of powder near your eye, followed by a split second before the charge in the barrel is ignited, you have developed proper form. And even then, taking that form with you to the woods when hunting may require further training.
Sounds like flinching is your most likely culprit, especially when considering the blinking at the shot. I did that, too, when first beginning to hunt with a .22, and it took me most of my first season to catch myself in the act and realize I was doing it. The squirrels in my area immediately became less able to "duck" my shots!
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