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Post by woody1071 on Nov 25, 2014 16:28:15 GMT -5
Oddly enough, my reason for using my .358 Win with shortened cases is for the knockdown. I want my deer dead as close to the moment of impact from my bullet as possible. The range is an added bonus for when that situation may arise. I still have to "hunt" deer. Just because I can shoot +/- 300 yards lethally doesn't mean they are walking in front of my barrel at that range. I would still have to get in an absolute great shooting position and make that shot and make sure my background was clear. Not as easy as one may think. Doable but not easy.
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Post by MuzzleLoader on Nov 25, 2014 16:41:47 GMT -5
I shot 3 deer, not one was more than 20 yrds away from me sitting on the ground. I see no advantage to having a hpr, I don't even own one. Will use my muzzleloader and crossbow unless I get an itch for a rifle. Like the option of using one, really know nothing about them. If other guys like them, I am not opposed to it. You can use them now, just another choice of weapon.
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Post by sakorifle on Nov 25, 2014 16:55:04 GMT -5
greetings I am going to be told to mind my own business here,so be it But can some one perhaps matamorahunter or the shoolteacher please explain to me, if one is allowed to kill one buck with a 358 hoosier or muzzleloader and one is allowed to kill one buck with a 243/308 hpr,how is one going to wipe the herd out, i am perplexed at the answer. The gentleman that blew the deers jaw off then was lucky enough for it to stand around while he reloaded his muzzleloader would not of had that problem, click click bang coupe de grace humanely and quickly done. I will take any rattle back for this post then that is me out of the debate it is your decision. But extreme accuracy can only be good for the animal that is being harvested. regards billy Billy
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Post by squirrelhunter on Nov 25, 2014 16:56:18 GMT -5
I've been hunting with a 35 Remington in a pistol for years,is that really a whole lot different than if it was in a rifle??? No,not much. I may try longer shots with it in a rifle but the bullet will still go about the same distance either way.
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Post by beehunter on Nov 25, 2014 17:28:28 GMT -5
On opening day this year I killed a buck in the woods at 25 yards with a muzzleloader and he dropped dead immediately. The next day I was hunting an open picked bean field and shot a large doe at 170 yds with my .243 and she dropped dead immediately. Dead is dead to me, although I did enjoy shooting the doe with the .243 much more.
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Post by firstwd on Nov 25, 2014 18:36:32 GMT -5
so where does it end? What is next, night hunting? Hunting from vehicles? How easy does it have to be? You want the honest answer to this It will end when the state has very few deer and that is the goal here as in most populated states with deer issues. After we get the herd down to manageable numbers in most areas that can be killed by LEOs ,COs and sharp shooters who can at that time control whats left.They will do it by shooting them at night with silenced rifles while the public sleeps and never knows its happening . Thats when it will end when they do not need us hunters anymore and its not as far away as most will ever admit here .No more worrying about hunters what they want .No more gun issues bow or season issues .At that point farmers will be able to handle it on their terms as licensed shooters . Believe it or not hunters and the pro opportunity guys are our own worst enemies because we want more and pull that trigger .Thats ok though I will not likely be breathing when that all shakes down anyways but its not that far off at this rate.One day we hunters will hunt our way out of bussiness wait and see guys .Guns and ammo are under attack every day .How long will we last ??They have to do away with the need to hunt first then its over . I mean do you think that state Gov wants to spend money on the DNR Heck they really want them gone no expenditure if they are not needed . I have always said if we want to keep hunting trophy mentality and long seasons / high over all bag limits must go . I carefully searched my thoughts for a response to this and I could only come up with one appropriate answer. You need to find a different hobby.
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Post by shouldernuke on Nov 25, 2014 18:57:03 GMT -5
You want the honest answer to this It will end when the state has very few deer and that is the goal here as in most populated states with deer issues. After we get the herd down to manageable numbers in most areas that can be killed by LEOs ,COs and sharp shooters who can at that time control whats left.They will do it by shooting them at night with silenced rifles while the public sleeps and never knows its happening . Thats when it will end when they do not need us hunters anymore and its not as far away as most will ever admit here .No more worrying about hunters what they want .No more gun issues bow or season issues .At that point farmers will be able to handle it on their terms as licensed shooters . Believe it or not hunters and the pro opportunity guys are our own worst enemies because we want more and pull that trigger .Thats ok though I will not likely be breathing when that all shakes down anyways but its not that far off at this rate.One day we hunters will hunt our way out of business wait and see guys .Guns and ammo are under attack every day .How long will we last ??They have to do away with the need to hunt first then its over . I mean do you think that state Gov wants to spend money on the DNR Heck they really want them gone no expenditure if they are not needed . I have always said if we want to keep hunting trophy mentality and long seasons / high over all bag limits must go . I carefully searched my thoughts for a response to this and I could only come up with one appropriate answer. You need to find a different hobby. I do not see why that would be I love to hunt I like the kill its the best part of it knowing that all you did led up to that moment ,along with the side of what we get in meat .I eat what I take all of it I can.I do not kill just for the sake of killing . Nor do I do it because I can not stop pulling the trigger and just donate the meat or throw it out the next fall. There truly are far more who hunt that feel like I do . The hunters that feel its ok to just keep shooting and diminishing what we have just for the sake of saying I am hunting are in the minority.It is what it is and you sir have to live with the fact that your ideas or mine may not be popular with other hunters now days .But you will continue to live with the fact that I will continue to hunt and push back where I see those overdoing it all in the name of killing or opportunity that in the long run takes away from all of the hunters out there just so they can keep killing or hunting long past the time they should of stopped . I will continue to be a "conservationist " rather than a over taker or hide behind the opportunity banner that is who I am and the way I was taught by sportsmen who quite frankly you or I can not fill their boots on any given day. They only took what they used and knew when to stop .They also did it all with weapons and clothes you would not dream of useing with leather boots and primble knife.Yep they win that comparison every time. The growing majority of have not hunters who loose ground and are no longer seeing deer or feel they are loosing what they were here to help build what we are loosing far faster than we can relpace them, are simply not going anywhere and neither am I we will fight the good fight to save the sport and be a sportsman and conservationists not just takers...More to hunting than limits weapons and number of days to do it in .
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Post by drs on Nov 26, 2014 5:00:58 GMT -5
I don't believe anyone here can answer the question: "Are High Powered regular rifles be allowed in Indiana for Deer Hunting?" One thing certain, this proposal will have to jump through many-many hoops before allowing HPR in Indiana. Population (people) density will be a major factor in a decision. Old school thought that has been proven in many states with lots of people more than IN and wives tales to not matter with all the HPRs currently being used safely in out state at this time .Shotguns are far more dangerous than any HPR in a normal deer hunting scenario .IMHO A good HPR hits a stick and disintegrates most times or breaks up .Shotgun slugs tumbles and bounces with most its body and energy in tact farther than HPRs do by a long shotand thats a true fact .I would rather be in a woods with HPRs than Shotguns any day .The DNR knows all this to be true they have studied it to death . Shouldernuke, you might be correct when expressing your opinion/views concerning the safety factory of Shotgun "Foster" type projectiles vs. HPRs . True, those large lead "globs" fired out of a smooth bore shotgun will bounce & tumble around the woods compared to a modern type jacketed bullet fired from a rifle. However, with the newer sabot loads that use jacketed bullets which offers a bit more velocity, plus they are fired out of rifled shotgun bores, and thus would shoot more like a regular rifle or even a sabot bullet firing M/L. with more accuracy & less having the bullet "bounce" around the woods.
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Post by trapperdave on Nov 26, 2014 6:42:46 GMT -5
so where does it end? What is next, night hunting? Hunting from vehicles? How easy does it have to be? youre welcome to leave your guns at home next year and join me hunting with longbows, selfbows and stone arrow heads if you want more of a challenge. just because hpr will be legal doesnt mean YOU have to use one. A dead deer is a dead deer, regardless of whether it was taken out by stone, 30-06 or a Peterbuilt.
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Post by trapperdave on Nov 26, 2014 6:46:12 GMT -5
Old school thought that has been proven in many states with lots of people more than IN and wives tales to not matter with all the HPRs currently being used safely in out state at this time .Shotguns are far more dangerous than any HPR in a normal deer hunting scenario .IMHO A good HPR hits a stick and disintegrates most times or breaks up .Shotgun slugs tumbles and bounces with most its body and energy in tact farther than HPRs do by a long shotand thats a true fact .I would rather be in a woods with HPRs than Shotguns any day .The DNR knows all this to be true they have studied it to death . Shouldernuke, you might be correct when expressing your opinion/views concerning the safety factory of Shotgun "Foster" type projectiles vs. HPRs . True, those large lead "globs" fired out of a smooth bore shotgun will bounce & tumble around the woods compared to a modern type jacketed bullet fired from a rifle. However, with the newer sabot loads that use jacketed bullets which offers a bit more velocity, plus they are fired out of rifled shotgun bores, and thus would shoot more like a regular rifle or even a sabot bullet firing M/L. with more accuracy & less having the bullet "bounce" around the woods. You made a point you didnt intend to.....were already using HPRs. .62 cal ones at that.....and the herd isnt gone, safety hasnt been compromised
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Post by trapperdave on Nov 26, 2014 6:47:17 GMT -5
greetings I am going to be told to mind my own business here,so be it But can some one perhaps matamorahunter or the shoolteacher please explain to me, if one is allowed to kill one buck with a 358 hoosier or muzzleloader and one is allowed to kill one buck with a 243/308 hpr,how is one going to wipe the herd out, i am perplexed at the answer. The gentleman that blew the deers jaw off then was lucky enough for it to stand around while he reloaded his muzzleloader would not of had that problem, click click bang coupe de grace humanely and quickly done. I will take any rattle back for this post then that is me out of the debate it is your decision. But extreme accuracy can only be good for the animal that is being harvested. regards billy Billy this man gets it
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Post by freedomhunter on Nov 26, 2014 9:03:00 GMT -5
thanks Dave, I want to do that. My compound doe this year was an awesome feeling, I can't imagine the feeling of accomplishment what you do brings. It has to be very satisfying. I obviously don't hate any gun, there just seems to be a trend towards whatever kills a deer the most easy way (who am I to judge though). I do have some hard evidence from a detective about hpr rounds (specifically .308 jacketed) bouncing and hitting a home, it was very near me and went half a mile and through a wall and ended up in a bath tub. It is what it is, it happened.
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Post by drs on Nov 26, 2014 11:50:42 GMT -5
Shouldernuke, you might be correct when expressing your opinion/views concerning the safety factory of Shotgun "Foster" type projectiles vs. HPRs . True, those large lead "globs" fired out of a smooth bore shotgun will bounce & tumble around the woods compared to a modern type jacketed bullet fired from a rifle. However, with the newer sabot loads that use jacketed bullets which offers a bit more velocity, plus they are fired out of rifled shotgun bores, and thus would shoot more like a regular rifle or even a sabot bullet firing M/L. with more accuracy & less having the bullet "bounce" around the woods. You made a point you didnt intend to.....were already using HPRs. .62 cal ones at that.....and the herd isnt gone, safety hasnt been compromised Those saboted jacketed bullets used in shotgun slugs are not .62 caliber, but rather .50 Cal. for 12 gauges & .45 Cal. for 20 gauge shotguns that have rifled bores. Muzzleloaders use .38 Caliber up to .45 Caliber in sabots.
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Post by woody1071 on Nov 26, 2014 12:11:18 GMT -5
Shouldernuke, you also assume that just because people that may hunt with an HPR, because of it's effectiveness and efficiency will kill more deer. Why? I can still use my .358 and only take the deer that I want/need. It doesn't mean I am going to go a kill my quota in every county because it's easier. I'd imagine that nearly everyone that switched wouldn't suddenly decide they wanted to kill more deer.
Guys that are on the fringe, that poach, take 2 bucks, tag dishonestly, kill and let rot will do it regardless of the weapon.
Uhhmm, give the guys that do things right and just would like to utilize another weapon some credit and don't assume that they are out to wipe out the herd or take the county quota just because we can.
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Post by freedomhunter on Nov 26, 2014 12:18:39 GMT -5
correction, that round actually traveled a mile before it hit a house. Probably around 1700 yards
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Post by trapperdave on Nov 26, 2014 13:32:19 GMT -5
You made a point you didnt intend to.....were already using HPRs. .62 cal ones at that.....and the herd isnt gone, safety hasnt been compromised Those saboted jacketed bullets used in shotgun slugs are not .62 caliber, but rather .50 Cal. for 12 gauges & .45 Cal. for 20 gauge shotguns that have rifled bores. Muzzleloaders use .38 Caliber up to .45 Caliber in sabots. youre completely missing my point
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Post by freedomhunter on Nov 26, 2014 13:40:16 GMT -5
the test will be when and if all rifles are allowed. Then we will know and I hope I am wrong about what will happen in the flatter areas of the state. I do know a lot of counties have laws in place like not shooting within 1000' radius of a building maybe that will help
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Post by M4Madness on Nov 26, 2014 13:44:27 GMT -5
I do have some hard evidence from a detective about hpr rounds (specifically .308 jacketed) bouncing and hitting a home, it was very near me and went half a mile and through a wall and ended up in a bath tub. It is what it is, it happened. I wonder if was was a full metal jacket bullet, as they will ricochet. Watching tracer fire at Knob Creek will show that. Thankfully, FMJ's are illegal for deer in Indiana.
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Post by freedomhunter on Nov 26, 2014 13:53:09 GMT -5
I do have some hard evidence from a detective about hpr rounds (specifically .308 jacketed) bouncing and hitting a home, it was very near me and went half a mile and through a wall and ended up in a bath tub. It is what it is, it happened. I wonder if was was a full metal jacket bullet, as they will ricochet. Watching tracer fire at Knob Creek will show that. Thankfully, FMJ's are illegal for deer in Indiana. yes it was an older military round so you are correct
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Post by drs on Nov 26, 2014 14:14:29 GMT -5
Those saboted jacketed bullets used in shotgun slugs are not .62 caliber, but rather .50 Cal. for 12 gauges & .45 Cal. for 20 gauge shotguns that have rifled bores. Muzzleloaders use .38 Caliber up to .45 Caliber in sabots. you're completely missing my point What is your point, Dave?? Sorry if I failed to understand what you are trying to tell me. All I know is that our modern sabot loaded shotgun slugs are using jacketed bullets & also M/L Hunters are also mostly using sabot in their firearms (M/L). Your older Foster slugs were of large caliber, and I believe 12 gauge a Foster Slug with a diameter of .72 Caliber, and the 20 gauge used a Foster Slug of .62 Caliber. Shotgun (Slug guns) loaded with sabot bullets fired out of a rifled barrel is far more accurate and effective than an old Foster type slugs fired out of a smooth bore shotgun. Ballistics of: sabots either fired out of a shotgun or M/L is on par with a .44 Magnum. or sometime more powerful, depending on the load.
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