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Post by greghopper on Nov 29, 2014 9:07:03 GMT -5
Couple of things with HPR on my Farm It would no longer be deer hunting It would be Deer Shooting Also They Will Not be allowed on my 125 AcresNothing to discuss I seen quite a few people on the internet saying the same thing....There choice!!!
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Post by shouldernuke on Nov 29, 2014 9:07:21 GMT -5
FWIW, I doubt anyone could convince the powers that be to lower the bore size minimum below 243 after than being a drop from current regs. As for Sunday hunting, it would be detrimental to their wanting X number of deer shot but even if such happened, recall that most of us old timers grew up with that being the law here. No hunting on Sunday's was just the way it was in my youth and all accepted that. I know people who will STILL not hunt on Sunday. I had no intentions to make it sound like they should COPY PA's regs but to look, instead, at the types of rifles allowed since it's only two states to my knowledge that such is the law. My apologies for not being more clear. While they SHOULD be aware of such, I just wanted to insure that this was in the hat when they started drawing out options to look at. God Bless Your not that much older than I am and we have over the last 40 years deer hunting always legally had the right to hunt Sunday if that season was open on a Sunday.That said in todays world many hunters may only get Sat, and Or just Sun .To hunt .You may want to rethink your position here .You guys who do not still work and I soon enough forget the work demands and family demands . I would fight you toe to toe on any emulation of a single PA rule or law.. Esp Sunday hunting .They are by far the worst state in the DEER hunting world when it comes to deer management and hunter relations ./Freedom .They have so many blue laws there its ridiculous at best .They also have over more hunters than IL. IN. KY and IA conbinde in far less area than those conbind.Think on that a while and get back to us Steve on your reasoning at that point .
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Post by M4Madness on Nov 29, 2014 9:08:46 GMT -5
1. AR-15 rifles are already legal in certain calibers for deer.
2. Any AR-15 rifle can easily be converted to single shot for free in minutes.
3. Semi-auto is semi-auto, regardless of the platform.
4. The most popular caliber in an AR-15 by far is the .223, which will still be illegal for deer if this proposal passes.
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Post by lugnutz on Nov 29, 2014 9:09:20 GMT -5
Ur right a bolt action action isnt technically an assault rifle.
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Post by span870 on Nov 29, 2014 10:11:31 GMT -5
FWIW, I doubt anyone could convince the powers that be to lower the bore size minimum below 243 after than being a drop from current regs. As for Sunday hunting, it would be detrimental to their wanting X number of deer shot but even if such happened, recall that most of us old timers grew up with that being the law here. No hunting on Sunday's was just the way it was in my youth and all accepted that. I know people who will STILL not hunt on Sunday. I had no intentions to make it sound like they should COPY PA's regs but to look, instead, at the types of rifles allowed since it's only two states to my knowledge that such is the law. My apologies for not being more clear. While they SHOULD be aware of such, I just wanted to insure that this was in the hat when they started drawing out options to look at. God Bless Oh I agree with most you said. Just making a point that there is a give and take on most issues. The banning of semis in Pennsylvania is really a moot point though. You should hear opening day of bear or doe season. Them boys can pump some rounds downrange with the ol 760. Idiots are still going to be idiots. You can't regulate stupid. Just wonder how many opposed to hpr's will have one in there hand if legalized. My guess is shotgun with slugs will be a very under utilized tool in Indiana in several years.
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Post by steve46511 on Nov 29, 2014 10:17:57 GMT -5
ONE of the most popular and oldest cartridge for this rifle is the 308 Winchester. The mention of a 223 is pointless. AGAIN......the PURPOSE of this rifle is RAPID FIRE capabilities. I don't give a rat's patoot about the fact that a few SLOW cartridges shooting big fat NOT capable of long range AND not "frangible" bullets are included being even more so going slower and don't tell me this "isn't true" Ive fired several clips out of a 458 SOCOM. Bullets bounce around quite nicely TYVM.......and as fast as I could pull the trigger. Safe my BUTT, the worst of all the worst traits a cartridge could have in the woods. A 308, 6.5 Creedmoor or others (many others) in a 15 round OR MORE rifle built FOR rapid fire required during defense IS NOT a sporting firearm, regardless if they "camo" it or not. It's not even ABOUT what YOU want or what I WANT.......... Go TALK TO LOCALS THAT OWN LAND AND OTHERS THAT DO NOT HUNT. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON Ive talked to feels such belongs in the fields they own or live by. Not landowers Not local parents Not even local FFL DEALERS ( three so far) We can hiss and snarl about "safety" and "effectiveness" and "NEED" and never agree but you'll talk yourself blue in the face to think the general public isn't going to raise holy H OR think it wont KILL the opportunity to hunt even MORE hunting areas...........forever dead, never even hunted again. If ANYONE thinks "opinion" is a REASON to allow something because they "want it", Go ask the general public. Being still a democratic society MAJORITY SHOULD RULE and the number of people that even say that they "don't care" one way or another is going to be a mere PART of a percentage point. But go ahead. Quote all your facts that such is "right" and "safe" and " I want, I want, I want" The only person that will agree with you is others who want what they want and screw the general public and what the OPINION THEY HAVE of hunting in general is turning into. NO LONGER does the average hunter CARE if the sport is viewed negatively. "It's legal"......nothing else matters!!!! WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SPORTSMEN THAT MADE UP THIS SPORT NOT SO MANY DECADES AGO? PEOPLE WHO CARED what others thought? Go ahead, be yet another reason the general public wishes hunting was banned all together and another reason IT WILL BE in your grandchild's lifetime. Go ahead........have at it. Im done discussing something that is as clear as the egg on your face. WHAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC THINKS OF HUNTING is DUE TO the actions of those DOING IT. INCLUDING all the greed and selfishness the common hunter shows today.....and is even TAUGHT as a young hunter by many. "As long as you got your big buck.......ALL IS GOOD" yep, lets give the slob hunters ANOTHER tar brush blacken us all to kill the sport all together in the public eye. It doesn't matter right? Heck with them.......AS LONG AS WE GET WHAT WE WANT! Such an attitude and anyone even WILLING to argue the point makes me ashamed to the point I want to PUKE.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Nov 29, 2014 10:29:59 GMT -5
Ur right a bolt action action isnt technically an assault rifle. I don't believe a technical definition exists for "assault rifle." The anti-gun crowd just uses the term for whatever ban they happen to be pushing at any given time.
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Post by shouldernuke on Nov 29, 2014 10:37:17 GMT -5
ONE of the most popular and oldest cartridge for this rifle is the 308 Winchester. The mention of a 223 is pointless. AGAIN......the PURPOSE of this rifle is RAPID FIRE capabilities. I don't give a rat's patoot about the fact that a few SLOW cartridges shooting big fat NOT capable of long range AND not "frangible" bullets are included being even more so going slower and don't tell me this "isn't true" Ive fired several clips out of a 458 SOCOM. Bullets bounce around quite nicely TYVM.......and as fast as I could pull the trigger. Safe my BUTT, the worst of all the worst traits a cartridge could have in the woods. A 308, 6.5 Creedmoor or others (many others) in a 15 round OR MORE rifle built FOR rapid fire required during defense IS NOT a sporting firearm, regardless if they "camo" it or not. It's not even ABOUT what YOU want or what I WANT.......... Go TALK TO LOCALS THAT OWN LAND AND OTHERS THAT DO NOT HUNT. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON Ive talked to feels such belongs in the fields they own or live by. Not landowers Not local parents Not even local FFL DEALERS ( three so far) We can hiss and snarl about "safety" and "effectiveness" and "NEED" and never agree but you'll talk yourself blue in the face to think the general public isn't going to raise holy H OR think it wont KILL the opportunity to hunt even MORE hunting areas...........forever dead, never even hunted again. If ANYONE thinks "opinion" is a REASON to allow something because they "want it", Go ask the general public. Being still a democratic society MAJORITY SHOULD RULE and the number of people that even say that they "don't care" one way or another is going to be a mere PART of a percentage point. But go ahead. Quote all your facts that such is "right" and "safe" and " I want, I want, I want" The only person that will agree with you is others who want what they want and screw the general public and what the OPINION THEY HAVE of hunting in general is turning into. NO LONGER does the average hunter CARE if the sport is viewed negatively. "It's legal"......nothing else matters!!!! WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SPORTSMEN THAT MADE UP THIS SPORT NOT SO MANY DECADES AGO? PEOPLE WHO CARED what others thought? Go ahead, be yet another reason the general public wishes hunting was banned all together and another reason IT WILL BE in your grandchild's lifetime. Go ahead........have at it. Im done discussing something that is as clear as the egg on your face. WHAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC THINKS OF HUNTING is DUE TO the actions of those DOING IT. INCLUDING all the greed and selfishness the common hunter shows today.....and is even TAUGHT as a young hunter by many. "As long as you got your big buck.......ALL IS GOOD" yep, lets give the slob hunters ANOTHER tar brush blacken us all to kill the sport all together in the public eye. It doesn't matter right? Heck with them.......AS LONG AS WE GET WHAT WE WANT! Such an attitude and anyone even WILLING to argue the point makes me ashamed to the point I want to PUKE. Honestly Steve if your theory was correct we would have been voted out of hunting and hunting rights a few decades back !! So if we in this case let the majority vote and set the hunting rules we would be talking about knitting right now not hunting deer .. You are firmly against HPRs and it shows .Rather than let those who do not understand it or add fuel to the fire in that restaurant you had an opportunity to let them know the hunters around them have been hunting with HPRS for a long time!! But it is what it is . Be careful what you ask for .
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Nov 29, 2014 10:39:13 GMT -5
ONE of the most popular and oldest cartridge for this rifle is the 308 Winchester. The mention of a 223 is pointless. AGAIN......the PURPOSE of this rifle is RAPID FIRE capabilities. I don't give a rat's patoot about the fact that a few SLOW cartridges shooting big fat NOT capable of long range AND not "frangible" bullets are included being even more so going slower and don't tell me this "isn't true" Ive fired several clips out of a 458 SOCOM. Bullets bounce around quite nicely TYVM.......and as fast as I could pull the trigger. Safe my BUTT, the worst of all the worst traits a cartridge could have in the woods. A 308, 6.5 Creedmoor or others (many others) in a 15 round OR MORE rifle built FOR rapid fire required during defense IS NOT a sporting firearm, regardless if they "camo" it or not. It's not even ABOUT what YOU want or what I WANT.......... Go TALK TO LOCALS THAT OWN LAND AND OTHERS THAT DO NOT HUNT. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON Ive talked to feels such belongs in the fields they own or live by. Not landowers Not local parents Not even local FFL DEALERS ( three so far) We can hiss and snarl about "safety" and "effectiveness" and "NEED" and never agree but you'll talk yourself blue in the face to think the general public isn't going to raise holy H OR think it wont KILL the opportunity to hunt even MORE hunting areas...........forever dead, never even hunted again. If ANYONE thinks "opinion" is a REASON to allow something because they "want it", Go ask the general public. Being still a democratic society MAJORITY SHOULD RULE and the number of people that even say that they "don't care" one way or another is going to be a mere PART of a percentage point. But go ahead. Quote all your facts that such is "right" and "safe" and " I want, I want, I want" The only person that will agree with you is others who want what they want and screw the general public and what the OPINION THEY HAVE of hunting in general is turning into. NO LONGER does the average hunter CARE if the sport is viewed negatively. "It's legal"......nothing else matters!!!! WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SPORTSMEN THAT MADE UP THIS SPORT NOT SO MANY DECADES AGO? PEOPLE WHO CARED what others thought? Go ahead, be yet another reason the general public wishes hunting was banned all together and another reason IT WILL BE in your grandchild's lifetime. Go ahead........have at it. Im done discussing something that is as clear as the egg on your face. WHAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC THINKS OF HUNTING is DUE TO the actions of those DOING IT. INCLUDING all the greed and selfishness the common hunter shows today.....and is even TAUGHT as a young hunter by many. "As long as you got your big buck.......ALL IS GOOD" yep, lets give the slob hunters ANOTHER tar brush blacken us all to kill the sport all together in the public eye. It doesn't matter right? Heck with them.......AS LONG AS WE GET WHAT WE WANT! Such an attitude and anyone even WILLING to argue the point makes me ashamed to the point I want to PUKE. I take it you don't like semi-autos? They are legal now, they will be legal in a few more calibers if the proposal passes. They are already legal in most other states already. Legalizing a few more calibers here will not be the end of the world (or hunting). There still won't be a ton of them out there, primarily because they are about 4x more expensive than a basic bolt action.
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Post by sakorifle on Nov 29, 2014 11:01:30 GMT -5
A physics lesson and an understanding of trajectory and ballistics would help with the myths surrounding hpr's. A .308 zeroed at 100 yards will be around 30 inches low at 400 yards. Aiming at a deer from ground level would put the bullet in the dirt at that distance. The hunters that worry you will have no chance of hitting a deer or anything else at 400 yards. If someone takes the time at the range and understands trajectory they will know how to adjust their scope or they will understand holdover, and those aren't the ones that worry any of us. Absolutely right, with the sako and my load I zero 1'75 inches high at a hundred for a two hundred yard zero, at two hundred and fifty I have to aim there inches high, and at two sixty I have to put the horizontal crosshair level with its back to drop in.(roe deer). The bullet will hit the ground within six inches of passing through the target at any given zero range, go try it. Problem comes in two forms, shooting on or over a horizon, shooting at moving deer looking through a scope whith a small field of view, big no no no, accident waiting to happen. As I have said many times, nut behind the bolt. Regards Billy
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Post by bartiks on Nov 29, 2014 11:08:54 GMT -5
Wow, the thread got rather "spirited" over the last couple of pages.
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Post by sakorifle on Nov 29, 2014 11:45:30 GMT -5
Greetings Yup time for me to leave, given our experience of stalking rifles on a tiny overpopulated island, nothing more I can add really. Regards Billy
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Post by M4Madness on Nov 29, 2014 12:01:19 GMT -5
Dang, Steve, don't sugarcoat it and tell us how you really feel. Lol!
Seriously though, one semi-auto isn't any faster than the other. The cyclic rate on all are faster than the human finger and target re-acquisition. How does a Ruger ranch rifle with its pretty wood stock differ functionally from a Ruger AR-15? Both shoot the same caliber and both are semi-auto. Only their cosmetics differ.
To get technical, AR-15 rifles cannot be chambered in things like .308 Win due to COAL. That's why the more expensive AR-10 was created. That weeds out a lot of people who don't want to spend a lot on a 2-week rifle. BTW, we are a constitutional republic, not a democracy.
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 29, 2014 12:18:05 GMT -5
Everybody needs to take a deep breath and....relax. This ain't a life and death subject ..
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2014 12:30:09 GMT -5
Holy cow! Has JB hacked someone's account? Yikes!!!
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Post by swilk on Nov 29, 2014 12:44:35 GMT -5
Wow.
Seems like I've heard similar arguments about black guns before.....
Opinions that can be articulated are respected but in this case I don't think I could disagree more.
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Post by realhunter on Nov 29, 2014 12:47:10 GMT -5
ONE of the most popular and oldest cartridge for this rifle is the 308 Winchester. The mention of a 223 is pointless. AGAIN......the PURPOSE of this rifle is RAPID FIRE capabilities. I don't give a rat's patoot about the fact that a few SLOW cartridges shooting big fat NOT capable of long range AND not "frangible" bullets are included being even more so going slower and don't tell me this "isn't true" Ive fired several clips out of a 458 SOCOM. Bullets bounce around quite nicely TYVM.......and as fast as I could pull the trigger. Safe my BUTT, the worst of all the worst traits a cartridge could have in the woods. A 308, 6.5 Creedmoor or others (many others) in a 15 round OR MORE rifle built FOR rapid fire required during defense IS NOT a sporting firearm, regardless if they "camo" it or not. It's not even ABOUT what YOU want or what I WANT.......... Go TALK TO LOCALS THAT OWN LAND AND OTHERS THAT DO NOT HUNT. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON Ive talked to feels such belongs in the fields they own or live by. Not landowers Not local parents Not even local FFL DEALERS ( three so far) We can hiss and snarl about "safety" and "effectiveness" and "NEED" and never agree but you'll talk yourself blue in the face to think the general public isn't going to raise holy H OR think it wont KILL the opportunity to hunt even MORE hunting areas...........forever dead, never even hunted again. If ANYONE thinks "opinion" is a REASON to allow something because they "want it", Go ask the general public. Being still a democratic society MAJORITY SHOULD RULE and the number of people that even say that they "don't care" one way or another is going to be a mere PART of a percentage point. But go ahead. Quote all your facts that such is "right" and "safe" and " I want, I want, I want" The only person that will agree with you is others who want what they want and screw the general public and what the OPINION THEY HAVE of hunting in general is turning into. NO LONGER does the average hunter CARE if the sport is viewed negatively. "It's legal"......nothing else matters!!!! WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SPORTSMEN THAT MADE UP THIS SPORT NOT SO MANY DECADES AGO? PEOPLE WHO CARED what others thought? Go ahead, be yet another reason the general public wishes hunting was banned all together and another reason IT WILL BE in your grandchild's lifetime. Go ahead........have at it. Im done discussing something that is as clear as the egg on your face. WHAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC THINKS OF HUNTING is DUE TO the actions of those DOING IT. INCLUDING all the greed and selfishness the common hunter shows today.....and is even TAUGHT as a young hunter by many. "As long as you got your big buck.......ALL IS GOOD" yep, lets give the slob hunters ANOTHER tar brush blacken us all to kill the sport all together in the public eye. It doesn't matter right? Heck with them.......AS LONG AS WE GET WHAT WE WANT! Such an attitude and anyone even WILLING to argue the point makes me ashamed to the point I want to PUKE.
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Post by M4Madness on Nov 29, 2014 12:55:00 GMT -5
What is ironic is that as far as I know, machineguns are legal for deer (only prohibition I've seen is for waterfowl.) I could put a .358 WSSM upper on my registered M16 lower TODAY, screw on a silencer, set the selector to 'AUTO", and fire off more rounds than anyone ever could with a semi-auto.
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Post by greghopper on Nov 29, 2014 13:01:19 GMT -5
Holy cow! Has JB hacked someone's account? Yikes!!! Really???....SMH
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 29, 2014 15:41:52 GMT -5
I'm really disappointed that this went down this way. I asked everyone to take a deep breath and relax. Instead I saw piling on.
This one is locked and next time there will be repercussions ..
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