|
Post by Woody Williams on Sept 7, 2015 16:08:46 GMT -5
I'm in a lowly 3 county and I only had two times out of 4 dozen trips to the stand last year that I never saw a deer.. I do recall in 2007 when EHD hit my area .. I went 17 times to the stand and never saw a deer.. I guess I should have raised heck with the DNR about that... . two years later you couldn't tell there was ever a problem..
|
|
|
Post by throbak on Sept 7, 2015 16:09:46 GMT -5
The live coyote trade was stopped because it was Cruel to put them in smaa pens to let dogs run down and kill another form of canned hunting they were killed in these pens or the demand would not have been so great
|
|
|
Post by trapperdave on Sept 7, 2015 16:16:12 GMT -5
but its ok to shoot them and leave them to rot.
the running pens are the same as for beagles and bird dogs. A safe place to run/train the hounds without fear of crossing roads or property lines. It gave trappers a market for what in Indiana is basically an unmarketable resource. Our coyotes have very poor quality fur and at best a trapper makes $10 a pelt IF they can sell them. The live market bought ONLY healthy unharmed yotes for $50 and up. No market for yotes now so no yall deal with the backlash of too damn many yotes around. So shoot em up and leave em to rot, after all thats better, right?
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Sept 7, 2015 16:36:33 GMT -5
Every trapper I talked to when this "no live sale " was proposed said that they would stop trapping coyotes AND the deer herd would suffer.
I don't care how many someone shoots they can't take out as many as a good trapper can ...
|
|
|
Post by mkfrench on Sept 7, 2015 18:09:55 GMT -5
I also saw zero on the poll that was a problem. The real problem is VERY, VERY,VERY uneducated, selfish and one sided "hunters"
EHD has been around for every one of my 36 years on earth and is completely blown out of proportion. It's worse in some years/areas than others. The Internet has caused much unnecessary hooplah over it. It's been here, is here, and will always be here. A non issue that unfortunately we have to face from time to time.
|
|
|
Post by greghopper on Sept 7, 2015 20:03:05 GMT -5
Exactly .....To say the DNR stopped the live coyote market to reduce the Deer Herd is a myth at best!! The live market was stopped because most of the illegal activity with coyotes lead back to Indiana the place the coyotes where coming from!!!! Exactly what illegal activities? I didn't say it was shut down to reduce deer. I said it didn't hurt the DNR'S case of reducing the deer herd by having thousands of coyotes removed from the wild even year. Here a example of some the illegal activities from 2007... www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAAahUKEwj6hMnam-bHAhWLbz4KHQEMB_I&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.in.gov%2Factivecalendar_dnr%2FEventList.aspx%3Fview%3DEventDetails%26eventidn%3D3325%26information_id%3D6649%26type%3D%26syndicate%3Dsyndicate&usg=AFQjCNGuFY0RfhEMhH77dn124QXP0oE0OgThe complete release...For immediate release: Nov 12, 2007 Posted by: [DNR] Contact: Mark Farmer, John Salb, Phil Bloom Phone: 812-620-4666, 317-695-6526, 317-502-1683 Email: dnrnews@dnr.in.gov
Arrest made in live coyote trade investigation Indiana conservation officers arrested one person Sunday in connection with a multi-state investigation into the illegal movement of live coyotes being sold for use in penned dog-running facilities in other states.
In coordination with conservation law enforcement agencies in at least four other states, conservation officers with the Department of Natural Resources checked holding facilities in Indiana for compliance with state regulations.
Earl Hunt of Kennard in Henry County was arrested on multiple charges after conservation officers searched his home and business. He was charged with two Class D felonies for conspiracy to illegally ship wildlife, and for illegally selling or shipping wildlife. Hunt also was charged with Class C misdemeanors for illegal sale to a non-licensed fur buyer, failure to issue a valid and dated receipt, and illegal possession of 40 raccoons and two beavers.
Inspections also were conducted Sunday by state fish and wildlife agents in Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina and Virginia as the result of a two-year investigation.
"Trapping is an essential wildlife management tool in controlling predator and nuisance wildlife populations as well as disease," DNR director Robert E. Carter Jr. said. "The DNR supports and encourages legitimate trapping for those purposes, but this practice is a relatively new twist that is outside the traditional pursuit of wildlife."
Indiana DNR, concerned that translocation of wildlife poses a health risk to animals and humans, was in the process of clarifying rules on possession of coyotes when it joined the investigation.
In addition to the DNR-regulated trapping and hunting season for coyotes (Oct. 15 through March 15), an Indiana landowner or someone with a landowner's written permission can take nuisance coyotes year round.
The DNR recently sought to amend the regulation to require that a coyote taken outside the regulated season must be euthanized within 24 hours and may not be sold, traded, bartered or gifted. The Natural Resources Commission gave preliminary approval to that proposal in September and is expected to hold public hearings on the rule change early next year before considering final adoption.
“Operation Foxote” Results in 18 Arrests for Illegal Wildlife Trafficking November 12, 2007
On November 10, 2007, 18 persons across Alabama were arrested for the illegal trade, importation and possession of live foxes, coyotes and other wildlife. Officers of the Alabama Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries Division served arrest warrants in 14 counties. Seized in this operation were 25 coyotes, 55 foxes, 2 bobcats, 33 cardinals, and one moonshine still. The arrests are the result of a two-year investigation called “Operation Foxote,” which began in Alabama and then extended across the Southeast. More arrests are expected in the near future. State fish and wildlife agents in Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia, who were also involved in this investigation, are pursuing prosecution in their states for similar violations in connection with this multi-state investigation.
Arrested were the following: Harold Widder: Antigo, Wisconsin Howard Blevins: Asheville, North Carolina Paul Tribble: Panama City Beach, Florida Don Willis: Franklin County Charles Patton: Walker County Billy Sellers: Houston County Robert Boyd: Dale County Calvin Wright: Clarke County Sean Atchison, Charles Parnell, Charlie Howard and Charles Busby: Washington County Denver Nichols: Lamar County Edgar Smitherman: Chilton County Greg Tew: Henry County David Richburg: Covington County Kenneth Carnley: Coffee County J.R. Edwards: Butler County
Total combined charges on all defendants are: 54 counts of Importation of Prohibited Species 121 counts of Illegal Sale/Purchase of Game Animals 121 counts of Illegal Possession of Live Game Animals 54 counts of Illegal Transportation of Game Animals 11 counts of Possession of Game Animals in Closed Season 3 counts of Trapping in Closed Season 1 count of Possession of Protected Wild Birds
The penalties range from up to a $5,000 fine and 30 days imprisonment for Illegal Importation of Prohibited Species; up to a $500 fine and 6 months imprisonment for Illegal Possession of Live Game Animals, Illegal Transportation of Game Animals, Trapping in Closed Season and Possession of Game Animals in Closed Season; up to a $500 fine for Illegal Sale/Purchase of Game Animals; and a maximum fine of $25 for Possession of Protected Wild Birds. The animals involved were destined for fenced fox running enclosures where they were being released as running stock for hounds. Foxes confined to fenced running enclosures rarely survive long-term and this creates the demand for a continuous supply of new animals for restocking. In recent years, coyotes have become a popular substitute for foxes. Investigators tracked the movements of major dealers through nine states. They also documented the illegal activity of trappers who captured and sold live foxes and coyotes and of the operators of fenced running enclosures who purchased them. Patrons are charged a fee for the privilege of running dogs inside these fenced areas. Due to the potential disease and parasite risks posed by the translocation of live wild-caught foxes and coyotes, Alabama prohibited the importation of foxes and coyotes from outside the state in 1994. Alabama law also prohibits the possession and sale of live furbearers such as fox and coyote. In 1993, coyotes imported from Texas were linked to the introduction of the Texas strain of rabies into Covington County, Ala. In 1994, this same strain of rabies was found in Alachua County, Fla. These two incidents ultimately lead to the depopulation of coyotes and foxes inside two fenced running areas and 24 people having to receive rabies treatment in Florida. Other diseases of concern are distemper and a tapeworm that can infect foxes, coyotes and humans. The tapeworm, Echinococcus multilocularis, which occurs in wild coyotes and foxes in other areas of the country, is not known to exist in the wild in Alabama. The parasite can be fatal in humans. The animals seized in conjunction with this investigation are being tested for these and a variety of other diseases and parasites as a precautionary measure. Traditional fox hunters in Alabama hunt unconfined foxes with hounds and the animals have freedom of evasion and escape. Under these conditions, the dogs rarely come into contact with foxes. Hunting dog field trials are permitted by law in Alabama under the condition that dogs not come into contact with live animals. Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries’ Division Director M.N. “Corky” Pugh stated, “Lawful, ethical hunting enjoys a high level of public support in Alabama. Traditional forms of fox hunting embrace the concept of fair chase, and these hunters look on running pens with disdain.” Alabama Conservation Commissioner M. Barnett Lawley praised officers for their diligence during the two-year investigation. “Our agency is charged with enforcing the laws relating to wildlife in Alabama. This particular effort involved cooperation with multiple states and agencies, and I am very pleased with the professionalism and thoroughness our officers demonstrated. Any kind of unethical practice that endangers wildlife or humans cannot be tolerated.” “We would like to express our appreciation to agents of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, USDA Animal Wildlife Services, and the Southeastern Cooperative Wildlife Disease Study, who were instrumental in the success of this investigation,” said Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries Enforcement Chief Allan Andress.C
|
|
|
Post by swetz on Sept 7, 2015 20:14:02 GMT -5
but its ok to shoot them and leave them to rot. the running pens are the same as for beagles and bird dogs. A safe place to run/train the hounds without fear of crossing roads or property lines. It gave trappers a market for what in Indiana is basically an unmarketable resource. Our coyotes have very poor quality fur and at best a trapper makes $10 a pelt IF they can sell them. The live market bought ONLY healthy unharmed yotes for $50 and up. No market for yotes now so no yall deal with the backlash of too damn many yotes around. So shoot em up and leave em to rot, after all thats better, right? I'd rather see a quick humane kill for a coyote than they end up being used in a canned hunt. Aside from being unsporting (in my opinion of course), it certainly doesn't do any favors for the public image of trapping, which already isn't very popular.
|
|
|
Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Sept 7, 2015 22:31:25 GMT -5
Being insulated from much of the state has its drawbacks....only hunting my little chunk and the world seems pretty good. Good numbers. Good bucks. Healthy deer. Good neighbors. Same here. I put out a single cam and checked it three days later to find quite a few bucks, three of them being nice 10's. I always see lots of does while hunting. No one in my immediate area uses depredation permits because crops are very few and far between -- cattle is king here. I don't even hear of poaching (other than many using high-powered rifles), but I'm sure that is occurs somewhat. I DO hear of coyotes taking deer, with farmer witnessing actual killings. I've never found an EHD ever in 20 years of hunting. Oh, this is funny M4. ...little chunk is a relative statement. Little is just 1 or two hundred to you when it use to be 4 or 5, yes???
|
|
|
Post by chubwub on Sept 8, 2015 16:32:12 GMT -5
The only reason the higher ups quit letting guys run coyotes and foxes in pens like you can with rabbits is because the stinkin things looks too much like a dog, and the bleeding hearts of the world squealed enough to get it shut down with the backing of the Humane Society. www.humanesociety.org/issues/fox_penning/ Not a peep about rabbit or game bird pens. And let's be honest here, when you run dogs on yotes or other varmints, isn't the end result still the same? If they're caught in a pen or caught on a hunt, chances are the dogs are still going to tear them up. I've seen countless videos of fair chase hog hunts where the dogs catch the pigs and tear them to pieces. If the issue is truly cruelty, then you are going to have to ban hunting with dogs completely for animals that can't climb trees. City slickers always change their tune when all of a sudden that "dog" starts eating their pets and livestock. Then I get nitwits coming up to me and asking what is the best kind of poison to set out for them in order to kill or come up with a few other solutions of idiotic proportions to kill them because trapping is just so ::sob:: cruel. City slickers want them dead because they might eat Shnookums but they don't have the cajones to do what needs to be done properly. They threw a fit about the lion hunts and screamed for murder for people who "hunt for sport" but all I get is a nod of approval when I say that I strictly hunt coyotes and crows for sport. I don't understand human logic sometimes.
|
|
|
Post by M4Madness on Sept 9, 2015 17:52:47 GMT -5
Same here. I put out a single cam and checked it three days later to find quite a few bucks, three of them being nice 10's. I always see lots of does while hunting. No one in my immediate area uses depredation permits because crops are very few and far between -- cattle is king here. I don't even hear of poaching (other than many using high-powered rifles), but I'm sure that is occurs somewhat. I DO hear of coyotes taking deer, with farmer witnessing actual killings. I've never found an EHD ever in 20 years of hunting. Oh, this is funny M4. ...little chunk is a relative statement. Little is just 1 or two hundred to you when it use to be 4 or 5, yes??? I just checked GIS and I currently have sole permission on 773.68 contiguous acres split among seven landowners. It was 1,132.14 contiguous, but I lost 358.46 acres last year. I have sole permission to hunt probably 275 more acres, but they do not border this large chunk. The Lord has blessed me with great ground with no competition.
|
|
|
Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Sept 9, 2015 19:21:43 GMT -5
Oh, this is funny M4. ...little chunk is a relative statement. Little is just 1 or two hundred to you when it use to be 4 or 5, yes??? I just checked GIS and I currently have sole permission on 773.68 contiguous acres split among seven landowners. It was 1,132.14 contiguous, but I lost 358.46 acres last year. I have sole permission to hunt probably 275 more acres, but they do not border this large chunk. The Lord has blessed me with great ground with no competition. My heart goes out to you for having so many stressful choices to ponder, cost of dozens of trail cams and tree stands. My decisions are easy, food plot or no food plot, nap or no nap; I am so blessed! You know that I am very happy for you.
|
|
|
Post by M4Madness on Sept 9, 2015 20:13:25 GMT -5
I just checked GIS and I currently have sole permission on 773.68 contiguous acres split among seven landowners. It was 1,132.14 contiguous, but I lost 358.46 acres last year. I have sole permission to hunt probably 275 more acres, but they do not border this large chunk. The Lord has blessed me with great ground with no competition. My heart goes out to you for having so many stressful choices to ponder, cost of dozens of trail cams and tree stands. My decisions are easy, food plot or no food plot, nap or no nap; I am so blessed! You know that I am very happy for you. I only have one camera, and it was out less than two weeks. I've got four $39 lock-on stands that I bought a few years ago and a climber that I've been using probably 15 years now. I've been wearing my camo for about that long too. Lol! I will admit that having so much ground to hunt has a big negative -- trying to figure out where to hunt on a given day. I'm always worried that I'm missing action elsewhere. These properties are comprised mostly of oaks, so you can't even use them to your advantage.
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Sept 10, 2015 8:27:02 GMT -5
Honestly....urban sprawl and loss of habitat go together in my mind....so this survey clearly makes that #1.
|
|
|
Post by windingwinds on Sept 10, 2015 13:32:37 GMT -5
So 28 people think overharvesting is the biggest danger? How many of these people aren't going hunting? Urban sprawl is #1, always will be. How many cities are absolutely overran with deer but no urban season there? Complete with laws against weapons being discharged. Lots super small. Loose packs of dogs. City folk that believe the Bambi myth. The city zones that do have deer season, can't hunt in the parks, no access to land. Every time more land is annexed into a city for increased taxation hunting looses a few more acres.
|
|