Do you think Humans Can Alter the Atmosphere or the Climate?

[Land Between the Lakes]

This topic is always very debatable and a lot of people have an opinion.  Do I think humans can or have altered the Climate or the Atmosphere? Yes.

Humans are a large part of this world today just like natural occurrences, plants, birds, fish, animals etc.  Now am I saying I think man made Global Warming is real or proven? No.

Keep in mind I'm coming from a forestry background. Consider this, humans have cut down tens of millions of acres of forest in the last 400 years. Those forest used to absorb pollution, provide shade, and produce oxygen. This automatically changes and has changed oxygen levels in the atmosphere which can have an effect on the weather. This also changes pollution absorption rates. This also alters the surface temperature of the earth.  Less trees in an area can even effect condensation and evaporation processes which in turn effects moisture levels in the atmosphere. This can alter the severity of storms and precipitation levels.


This is one of the most obvious ways humans have in fact had an effect on the atmosphere. However, both conservatives and liberals get so caught up on the issue of Global Warming both sides don't seem to pay attention to things that are obvious.


Whether or not the idea of man caused Global Warming is real or not, the truth is pollution is being emitted into the atmosphere at a high rate daily. This certainly changes pollution levels in the atmosphere. Remember this pollution is man made.  There are far less forest and trees now days to absorb the pollution that is being emitted. This certainly must have some type of effect.


By the way I don't really follow politics or take sides politically very much.  I just enjoy the natural resources and conservation.


What are your thoughts and opinions?

[bullseye69]

Indians can make it rain.

[Land Between the Lakes]

Now when it comes to the idea of actual man made global warming. That is really a difficult thing to prove because the earth naturally warms and cools and there are many natural factors that have a big impact on warming and cooling.


Climate Change is actually a more accurate term, if there is an accurate term to describe the changes in the climate and/or atmosphere over the last few hundred years. The climate changes naturally and has done so since the beginning of time. However, as a result of all of the factors I mentioned in the post above it is certainly possible humans have slightly effected the climate in some way. It's nearly certain humans have effected the pollution, and oxygen levels in the atmosphere which can effect the climate. Now weather or not these changes are going to end up having a negative impact or not is still debatable. But there have been changes.



The facts on these issues are never really discussed. Politics get in the way. The Republicans always totally ignore or condemn anyone who mentions these topics, or they totally disagree. The Democrats also don't want to here anyone's opinion. They always seem certain the earth is warming without really having enough credible evidence.

 So when curious about the climate or atmosphere, perhaps people should just use common sense and try to do their own research on how the atmosphere and climate work instead of listening to Fox News, MSNBC, CNN etc.

[firstwd]

First, Global Warming is real. If it weren't, the Earth would still be in an Ice Age.

Second, yes humans have, do, and will contribute to climate change. The worst trait humans have is thinking they are smarter the nature.

Third, nothing we do will have an effect of the Earth in our lifetime.

Oh, just a little food for thought, one major volcanic eruption will spew more pollution into the atmosphere than humans have.

[drs]

Dec 16, 2015 22:20:30 GMT -5 Land Between the Lakes said:

This topic is always very debatable and a lot of people have an opinion.  Do I think humans can or have altered the Climate or the Atmosphere? Yes.

Humans are a large part of this world today just like natural occurrences, plants, birds, fish, animals etc.  Now am I saying I think man made Global Warming is real or proven? No.

What are your thoughts and opinions?

YES ~ Read the Book: "Angles Don't Play This H.A.A.R.P."   (High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program)  Just "Google" HAARP to read more about this project.

[dbd870]

Between the next ice age, then global warming then having to rename it climate change and data being exposed as having been manipulated I remain unconvinced. If it was as the alarmists claim then why all of the above. Their fear mongering is driven by a political agenda; I remain unconvinced. How many times do we have 10 years to save the plant - remember that one, among others. There has been enough lying I don't believe any study or anyone's opinion at this point.

[swilk]

Earth is 4.5 billion years old. We have written climate records that go back 125 years or so. Ice samples that go back maybe 800,000 years if we are lucky.

Data collected today is so inconsistent from year to year its not funny. Record temperature of a given spot over the course of 50 years. When the first recordings were taken it was an empty field of grasses. Now its a blacktop parking lot. Temperature is recorded anyway.

Records dont reflect what you want them to? Just change the criteria and manipulate the data.

Running into folks who doubt your work .... shout them down and yell false claims like you are selling toothpaste. 99 out of 100 scientist agree that Global warming is real.

Over that 4.5 Billion years the earth has heated. Cooled. Burned and been frozen.

Yes, climate changes. Always has. Always will. When the earth decides to go into the next ice age we wont be able to stop it. When the earth decides to change the rains from North America to Africa for 200 years we wont be able to stop it. When the earth decides to shake itself apart and slide the continents around a bit we wont be able to stop it.

Man puts way to much emphasis on his importance on this earth.

[Russ Koon]

I think a far more certain and immediate threat is from overpopulation and its effect on pollution.

I suspect our effects on the heat of the planet are pretty small and temporary, compared to the more drastic and immediate changes to water and air quality, the aquifers, and biodiversity.

I remember as a child in South Bend learning about the effect of Chicago on the air temperature taken even a few miles from the city view downwind. Later the same higher temps a couple miles out were reported on our news from Indy after we moved to this part of the state. If the cities were affecting air temps by a few degrees several miles downwind more than fifty years ago, before ther was any political scare-mongering about global warming, then they are surely doing even more today with twice the populations of cars and homes and a much greater paved area acting as a heat sink, storing and releasing the daytime heat during the night.

And the areas between the cities has become much smaller and more filled with suburban developments and increased traffic during those decades. So even if the differences between the air temps a couple miles downwind of the cities has not increased over the temps further out into the countrysides, that doesn't mean that the situation has stabilized, as both temps would logically be rising slightly at the same time.

But the "good news" is that at our current rate pf depletion of the planet's other resources, the overpopulation problem will likely solve itself long before the planet overheats and deteriorates into the desertscape that many predict.

I think we have passed the truly sustainable long-term population level quite some time back, and are now edging closer all the time to the brink of ecological disaster.

We keep finding "solutions" to the problems of feeding and flushing the wastes of so many billions of people, and treating those temporary solutions as the permanent answers to the problems, when they are simply band-aids that cover the wounds for a while from our sight.

The forests that have disappeared from the land are a more visible example of the problems with our air quality's future, but an even greater problem is very likely the ability of the oceans to continue their role in producing oxygen. The oceans have typically produced a far greater percentage of the worlds oxygen, and there is little known about the degree to which it has been harmed in that function by the pollution that continues to be dumped there by even the "greenest" of societies. We are now discovering that there are vast "dead zones" in most of the world's oceans, where pollution has reached levels where life is impossible for most or all known species.

We have even polluted the planet's environment outside our atmosphere, with millions of pounds of space junk in orbit, most of which will eventually come back towards earth and burn up in the atmosphere as it descends. We pollute wherever we go, happily leaving our calling cards on the moon and on other planets as we distribute our junk there during our brief visits. I couldn't help thinking about that as I noticed a deposit a coyote had left in the middle of the log road as I walked into my stand yesterday afternoon. They tend to do that, too...leave their calling cards right in the middle of the trails and roads we humans make in the woods. I suppose it's a territorial marking. I wonder if that's part of why we leave our "moon buggies", flags, and such on our visits to other orbs in the sky? Some inborn tendency to say "we were here" to any future traveler to come by the same spot. Can't very well doff the spacesuit long enough to do it coyote fashion, though.

[swilk]

Been saying that for a while....we gots too many folks on this rock.

Unsustainable over time.

[Woody Williams]

Dec 17, 2015 9:59:02 GMT -5 swilk said:

Been saying that for a while....we gots too many folks on this rock.

Unsustainable over time.

Yep.... Disease will catch up to us someday and get the population back down...just like wildlife.

Of course we humans have another way of getting the population down - WAR.

[drs]

If "they" keep allowing people, from other countries, come & settle in this country, things will get worse.  Our population could rise above the one Billion mark, in a short time.  

Our country is only able to function, with food & living space, + the economy, for only 150,000,000 Humans.

[Land Between the Lakes]

Dec 17, 2015 7:34:14 GMT -5 dbd870 said:

Between the next ice age, then global warming then having to rename it climate change and data being exposed as having been manipulated I remain unconvinced. If it was as the alarmists claim then why all of the above. Their fear mongering is driven by a political agenda; I remain unconvinced. How many times do we have 10 years to save the plant - remember that one, among others. There has been enough lying I don't believe any study or anyone's opinion at this point.

Both sides have altered data at times on these issues.  And most politicians who speak about the issue on either side are being funded by someone with an agenda.  But to me there is no doubt humans have altered things simply by cutting down tens of millions of acres of forest. That alone changes the oxygen and pollution levels in the atmosphere.

[Jamie Brooks 1John5:13]

Dec 16, 2015 22:24:05 GMT -5 bullseye69 said:

Indians can make it rain.

You're starting to talk crazy like me ...fun isn't it.

[Jamie Brooks 1John5:13]

I appreciate this question to stimulate debate. I do not have time to read all these responses, but I will tonight when I get home.

This is a May or June topic; it can get a little slow then. Of course this is an election year, so we'll have plenty to argue about.

Can man have an impact? Well, I believe we had the biggest impact when we got kicked out of the garden. The curse of sin and death was passed on to man and nature. Yes, I really believe this.

The earth billions of years old??? I most certainly believe the earth has the appearance of age, very old age. Actually, I think we spirits have been around for what would be billions of years in our time. Time is much different with the Creator. Adam did not look to be one day old wearing a diaper, and neither did the earth. Also, God told them to replenish the earth ...as if it had been filled before. With what and by whom; I do not know. I do not know how long they were in the garden. Lots I do not know, but I know enough to believe.

So, yes we started it all. Can we have an impact now? Certainly. We can cut down all the rain forest and this will have an impact. We can do lots of things, but Global Warming is just another cycle in the life of this place. This dimension is not eternal.

This earth is destined to be a frozen rock in this dimension of time and space. We add little to it's destruction from emissions perspective compared to the nature's destructive forces.

Pollution in our waters and land is the biggest concern with the current world population. It is sustained by oil. However, the ability to process it and distribute it will fail before we run out of it.

[swilk]

Dec 17, 2015 10:35:54 GMT -5 drs said:

If "they" keep allowing people, from other countries, come & settle in this country, things will get worse.  Our population could rise above the one Billion mark, in a short time.  

Our country is only able to function, with food & living space, + the economy, for only 150,000,000 Humans.

The problem is we are a nation of immigrants ..... Im tough on the illegal immigration thing but immigration is a big part of our countries heritage. An important part. Many of us are only a few generations removed from the boat ride that got our families here.

But yes .... there are too many of us. Our country is better suited than most with ample water and food .... for now.

[esshup]

Dec 17, 2015 8:45:03 GMT -5 swilk said:

Earth is 4.5 billion years old. We have written climate records that go back 125 years or so. Ice samples that go back maybe 800,000 years if we are lucky.

(snip)

Man puts way to much emphasis on his importance on this earth.

I agree 100%. But, I think man CAN change it in his lifetime. Will it happen? Nope, not a snowballs chance in he.. If everybody on the planet would get on the same page, yes. But, that will never, ever happen. Even if they did, what would be considered a change? A yearly average temp change of 1/10 of a degree F?

Data can be twisted to make it fit any scenario that comes up.

[firstwd]

Sometimes I truly wish the world would experience a "Jerico" moment. That was and interesting television show.

[swetz]

I would agree we have too many people total globally which necessitates some less than pleasant things: industrial factory farming, chemically intensive fertilizers, etc. To meet the need.

It really is amazing how much we've depleted resources. Think about the vastness of the ocean and that we've cut some species' population by over half with overfishing.

Thing is though, what really can be done? Nobody wants a government telling them how many kids they can have and most of us don't really see or think about the impact our day to day choices have.

[Jamie Brooks 1John5:13]

We really don't want the government setting limits on children; however, I am a bit torn to a point. I think having a dozen kids that one cannot afford is too many. Have 2 dozen, but don't make someone else pay for them.

[swetz]

Yeah, but bear in mind 2 kids is sustaining the current population. Anything more than that is raising it whether you can afford it or not.