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Post by jjas on Oct 6, 2017 8:32:58 GMT -5
FWIW, here's a rough idea of what I think is likely to happen....
With the ATF saying these stocks were legal to own in the past, I don't see an outright ban coming as it would likely be tied up in court for years. I could see these stocks being "re-classified" along the same vein as suppressors which would require a tax stamp for ownership and a serial number being molded into new stocks.
As far as the stocks already out there, I don't believe there is an existing serial number on them. If not, I wouldn't be surprised to see the owners required to send their existing stocks back to the company for a serial number to be permanently imprinted. The company would then be required to send the information to the ATF and the owner would be required to file ownership paperwork for the now numbered stock (with no fees involved and no wait time) with the ATF.
Re-selling these stocks would require the same paperwork (and fees) that a suppressor does now.
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Post by greghopper on Oct 6, 2017 12:27:53 GMT -5
I agree.... personally I haven't see. Anyone call for all out ban execpt the anti gun groups!
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Post by greghopper on Oct 6, 2017 12:30:40 GMT -5
NRA's Wayne LaPierre and Chris Cox Issue Joint Statement
(FAIRFAX, VA) - The National Rifle Association today issued the following statement:
"In the aftermath of the evil and senseless attack in Las Vegas, the American people are looking for answers as to how future tragedies can be prevented. Unfortunately, the first response from some politicians has been to call for more gun control. Banning guns from law-abiding Americans based on the criminal act of a madman will do nothing to prevent future attacks. This is a fact that has been proven time and again in countries across the world. In Las Vegas, reports indicate that certain devices were used to modify the firearms involved. Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law. The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations. In an increasingly dangerous world, the NRA remains focused on our mission: strengthening Americans' Second Amendment freedom to defend themselves, their families and their communities. To that end, on behalf of our five million members across the country, we urge Congress to pass National Right-to-Carry reciprocity, which will allow law-abiding Americans to defend themselves and their families from acts of violence."
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Post by dbd870 on Oct 6, 2017 14:22:59 GMT -5
"The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."
WLP & CC sold us out right there; they need to go. I have read elsewhere the Board has claimed it was not involved with releasing this statement (now is that true - that's a fair question). The NRA has set a precedent on compromise and you better believe there are Republicans in Congress that have noticed that green light. One bite at a time has always been the liberal way, they are patient and they are determined and they just got a boost. This was not a good move. They should have handled this just like Sandy Hook.
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Post by jackryan on Oct 6, 2017 14:26:48 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 14:32:40 GMT -5
I saw a video at lunch today where a person in the crowd was filming and on the 2nd burst of gun fire he scanned the hotel and there where no flashes of gun fire and no broken windows. We are being told a lie on what how it happened.
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Post by salt on Oct 6, 2017 19:45:55 GMT -5
Hope you don’t mind if I chime in here. I was talking with a good friend about this today. He has shot several guns with bump stocks. He says that they make the gun very difficult to stay on target. I get that this idiot was probably just spraying the crowd. But I would think there still had to be a little bit of aiming going on. I guess what I’m saying is his theory is that it wasn’t a bump stock at all. Maybe? Maybe not?
With that being said, my conspiracy theory would be that the government knows that this could be the straw that breaks the back when it comes to gun control. So could we put the blame on a bump stock and make that the focal point instead of the actual weapon? We all know that taking away guys from all the American gun owns could lead to a civil war.
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Post by swilk on Oct 6, 2017 20:12:56 GMT -5
22000 people hundreds of yards away....I doubt there was much more than aiming at "them".
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Post by jjas on Oct 6, 2017 20:37:19 GMT -5
Hope you don’t mind if I chime in here. I was talking with a good friend about this today. He has shot several guns with bump stocks. He says that they make the gun very difficult to stay on target. I get that this idiot was probably just spraying the crowd. But I would think there still had to be a little bit of aiming going on. I guess what I’m saying is his theory is that it wasn’t a bump stock at all. Maybe? Maybe not? With that being said, my conspiracy theory would be that the government knows that this could be the straw that breaks the back when it comes to gun control. So could we put the blame on a bump stock and make that the focal point instead of the actual weapon? We all know that taking away guys from all the American gun owns could lead to a civil war. So you think the Democrats finally convinced the Republicans (who control the House, Senate and White House) to kill 59 Americans and injure 500 more to go after the makers of a cheap plastic stock that you think will be the first domino in the collapse of the 2nd amendment? Seriously.....
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Post by salt on Oct 6, 2017 21:27:31 GMT -5
jjas, I’m sorry if my opinion made you feel as though I was trying to imply that the US government had anything to do with killing anyone. I read what I wrote several times and can’t seem to find where you made that conclusion from what I’m saying.
I’m saying that someone or something has to take the fall here because more and more people are being convinced that the gun is to blame and not the individual firing it. So maybe take the focus off of the gun and focus on an aftermarket part that may or may not have been used.
I have never shot a firearm with a bump stock. So I really don’t know what they are capable of doing from 37 floors up and several hundred yards away.
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Post by jjas on Oct 6, 2017 21:49:34 GMT -5
salt
In your first sentence....
salt
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Post by esshup on Oct 6, 2017 22:58:44 GMT -5
So you think the Democrats finally convinced the Republicans (who control the House, Senate and White House) to kill 59 Americans and injure 500 more to go after the makers of a cheap plastic stock that you think will be the first domino in the collapse of the 2nd amendment? Seriously..... I forget the name of the few that I've shot (bumpfire, bumpski or slide fire) but they were all machined aluminum, then anodized, and for cheap, I guess your definition of cheap is different than mine. $500 each is what they cost...
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Post by esshup on Oct 6, 2017 23:00:38 GMT -5
I don't agree with regulating anything, but I think the NRA is doing this to save face and not have everything else scrutinized. Cut off a finger tip to save a hand is what I'm thinking.
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Post by jjas on Oct 6, 2017 23:26:38 GMT -5
So you think the Democrats finally convinced the Republicans (who control the House, Senate and White House) to kill 59 Americans and injure 500 more to go after the makers of a cheap plastic stock that you think will be the first domino in the collapse of the 2nd amendment? Seriously..... I forget the name of the few that I've shot (bumpfire, bumpski or slide fire) but they were all machined aluminum, then anodized, and for cheap, I guess your definition of cheap is different than mine. $500 each is what they cost... The ones I've seen were mostly plastic and cost around $250.00. FWIW, I think that's pretty cheap for what it does...
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Post by dbd870 on Oct 7, 2017 7:22:17 GMT -5
I don't agree with regulating anything, but I think the NRA is doing this to save face and not have everything else scrutinized. Cut off a finger tip to save a hand is what I'm thinking. Maybe that's the thinking but they should know better. The blood is in the water. The Dems are already talking about it being a "start". Very foolish move
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Post by jjas on Oct 7, 2017 7:57:35 GMT -5
I don't agree with regulating anything, but I think the NRA is doing this to save face and not have everything else scrutinized. Cut off a finger tip to save a hand is what I'm thinking. Maybe that's the thinking but they should know better. The blood is in the water. The Dems are already talking about it being a "start". Very foolish move If ANYTHING is passed, I still contend it will be a way to make ownership of these stocks more restrictive (like suppressors). If there is an upside to this type of talk, consumers tend to freak out and start hoarding ammo and firearms. I'm sure the firearms manufacturers/dealers will welcome the business as it's apparently been a slow year for them.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 8, 2017 18:24:56 GMT -5
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Post by steiny on Oct 9, 2017 8:35:23 GMT -5
I'm about as pro gun, pro second amendment as it gets, but the current trend in firearms is a bit disturbing. Twenty years ago, when you went to a gun show there were lots of sporting arms; shotguns, rifles, pistols, muzzle loaders, collectibles, antique firearms, etc. Go to one now and it is heavily dominated by the black plastic semi auto rifles, tactical shotguns, high capacity mag pistols, self defense weapons, all kinds of crazy ammunition's, etc. ..... almost none of which is being used by hunters and sportsmen.
The crowds at these shows isn't the same anymore either. Whole lot of scary looking dudes walking around with AR's on their shoulder in a black trench coat and military boots. These aren't the guys that discuss things on this forum, most will never even go hunting. I'd trust most of you folks to own an AR and be safe and responsible with it, but looking around at who is buying a lot of the guns today, I can't say I'm comfortable with it.
I really think the "quasi military" type guns have become a bit too cheap, too easy to get hold of are now owned by too many folks that don't own them for practical purposes. Be honest, an AR with a few hi-cap mags is a much more dangerous and potentially deadly weapon than a semi auto duck gun or even a Ruger ranch rifle with 8 round mag in the hands of a nut job with bad intentions.
Perhaps the major manufacturers should work together and come up with a solution such as limiting production, jacking the prices way up, a big tax, etc. before big brother jumps in and starts banning things.
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Post by dbd870 on Oct 9, 2017 8:59:29 GMT -5
Perhaps they should do nothing. The 2nd is not about hunting guns.
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Post by swilk on Oct 9, 2017 10:13:48 GMT -5
And constitutional protections are not only applicable to those we approve of...
Restrictions should be loosened not tightened.
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