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Post by esshup on Apr 26, 2022 9:07:31 GMT -5
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Post by Sasquatch on Apr 26, 2022 10:04:19 GMT -5
Boy that's a legal briar patch.
I get the potential hazards of crossing land from corner to corner; I don't see how flying over someplace to get to public land is a problem. As I understand it, the private landowners are using the "airspace" argument to mean walking through the "airspace they can reasonably use in connection with the surface" . This could only mean stepping over a fence, right? I suppose one could pole vault.
What I think about is people from miles away looking up easements that have been private drives or entirely vanished three owners and 100 years ago. motoring up to a ranch somewhere and driving across a field and wondering why the locals are honked. Looks like a recipe for misunderstandings.
That said, as far of the big parcels that are totally landlocked are concerned, I think it's unreasonable for the owner of a huge parcel of land to object to an easement to public ground. People on smaller properties have to suck it up and deal with easements all the time.
In my home town I know of "driveways" that have been used as such for decades that are in fact side streets. The house behind the current one was torn down at some point and it's original purpose has been forgotten by most, often including the owners.
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Post by span870 on Apr 26, 2022 10:56:31 GMT -5
If private landowners do not allow general public access to landlocked state and federal property, than said property should be unavailable to landowners around property. It doesn't trample on landowners rights and either guarantees public access or guarantees landowners aren't using for personal use.
State and federal agencies should not buy land without a public right of way. They got themselves into a bind. Try to sell and only people that will buy are adjacent landowners. Anyone else and landowners will not allow new right of way.
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Post by onebentarrow on Apr 26, 2022 11:07:43 GMT -5
Boy that's a legal briar patch. I get the potential hazards of crossing land from corner to corner; I don't see how flying over someplace to get to public land is a problem. As I understand it, the private landowners are using the "airspace" argument to mean walking through the "airspace they can reasonably use in connection with the surface" . This could only mean stepping over a fence, right? I suppose one could pole vault. What I think about is people from miles away looking up easements that have been private drives or entirely vanished three owners and 100 years ago. motoring up to a ranch somewhere and driving across a field and wondering why the locals are honked. Looks like a recipe for misunderstandings. That said, as far of the big parcels that are totally landlocked are concerned, I think it's unreasonable for the owner of a huge parcel of land to object to an easement to public ground. People on smaller properties have to suck it up and deal with easements all the time. In my home town I know of "driveways" that have been used as such for decades that are in fact side streets. The house behind the current one was torn down at some point and it's original purpose has been forgotten by most, often including the owners. Not picking on you. I am going to play the devil's abdicate. A few days back I followed a thread about a new road. No one wanted the route to come close to them because of loss of land(that generally was not their land) and was screaming about the gov taking land to benifit some one other than the land owner. Now we are crying because the government isn't taking land to benefit us. Do I think the land locked land should have access? YES!!! Do I think the government. Should take it NO!! I do think the corner cross should be legal. I know if I owned any of the land wanted for access I would throw a hissyfit about it being taken too. We got to admit it not all hunters/government ground users aer courteous thoughtfull respectfull people. They leave trash,trustpass, build fires,shoot in indiscriminate directions(who doesn't know a story about some one shooting a house,cow,window or some thing else) among other things. Would you honestly be willing to give up a strip of your land to allow the general public access to the land behind your house if it was public ground? NOT ME!! It is MY land. I paid for it. I wouldn't want the government to sell that land either because who ever got it could put something there I do not want either(like a housing addition). Think about this. Most of us do not want the gov involved in anything that effects us but it is ok if they do when it is some one else and benifets us. Seems kind of hypocritical and selfish to me. These are my opinions. They are not aimed at anyone inpaticklur but if the shoe fits. Onebentarrow. I would like your responses so I can see if I think that much different than the general public. Some times I feel I really do. Thanks
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Post by Sasquatch on Apr 26, 2022 13:11:05 GMT -5
Onebentarrow, I certainly see your perspective. As, I said, it's a mess.
I agree we would probably not want to deal with this if we owned land out there. That is why I mentioned the owners of land that actually contain forgotten easements having to deal with people showing up wanting to use them.
You're right, I wouldn't want an easement through my yard. I would also like to think I wouldn't want to prevent others from getting to a giant hunk of public ground while I retained de-facto control of it.
As someone else alluded to, the government shouldn't have allowed huge blocks of public ground to be blocked in in the first place without allowing for access. Probably lost in the paperwork over the years.
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Post by freedomhunter on Apr 26, 2022 13:18:57 GMT -5
The federal government can force a sale of property any time it wants to through eminent domain
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Post by esshup on Apr 26, 2022 14:21:24 GMT -5
I seem to remember a TV show that showed a hunter renting a private helicopter to access some public land that was landlocked. He took a tent and camping supplies so he could stay multiple days to hunt. I think the surrounding landowners were honked that he did it.
When his hunt was finished he called the chopper back in to get picked up.
I have an easement on my property for the Nipsco gas line for the next door neighbors property. It was in the property description when I bought the place. They subsequently terminated the Nipsco gas going to their place and went with propane.
Do I need to petition the state to void the easement since it isn't being used? When I called GIS to flag the property before digging to find the gas line and they said that since it's not connected to the house they cannot find it.
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Post by Sasquatch on Apr 26, 2022 15:03:08 GMT -5
I seem to remember a TV show that showed a hunter renting a private helicopter to access some public land that was landlocked. He took a tent and camping supplies so he could stay multiple days to hunt. I think the surrounding landowners were honked that he did it. When his hunt was finished he called the chopper back in to get picked up. I have an easement on my property for the Nipsco gas line for the next door neighbors property. It was in the property description when I bought the place. They subsequently terminated the Nipsco gas going to their place and went with propane. Do I need to petition the state to void the easement since it isn't being used? When I called GIS to flag the property before digging to find the gas line and they said that since it's not connected to the house they cannot find it. Dont know about the easement but:
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Post by treetop on Apr 26, 2022 17:16:24 GMT -5
I also would not want people crossing my land dumping trash cutting ruts tearing up fence rows but a three foot wide crossing at the corner would fix this as a whole I believe most outdoors men and women take better care of the land than the general public.
From what I understand the biggest reason the ranchers don’t want it is they treat the land as if they own it with hunting rights grazing and the likes. They can run hunts on it or include it in the lease to the outfitters a lot of theses chunks are not the back 40 they are the back 40,000. They have rights against trespassing and I’m sure people will but we as people who paid and are paying for it should be allowed to use it and a small crossing at the corner would fix it
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Post by treetop on Apr 26, 2022 17:22:46 GMT -5
I seem to remember a TV show that showed a hunter renting a private helicopter to access some public land that was landlocked. He took a tent and camping supplies so he could stay multiple days to hunt. I think the surrounding landowners were honked that he did it. When his hunt was finished he called the chopper back in to get picked up. I have an easement on my property for the Nipsco gas line for the next door neighbors property. It was in the property description when I bought the place. They subsequently terminated the Nipsco gas going to their place and went with propane. Do I need to petition the state to void the easement since it isn't being used? When I called GIS to flag the property before digging to find the gas line and they said that since it's not connected to the house they cannot find it. As far as I know they still own the land I sold I believe a 20 foot wide section down my drive to AEP to run power down but it also serves my brothers and the two others lots across the driveway so they have access if something went wrong most of theses easement are sold for a dollar.
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Post by esshup on Apr 26, 2022 21:39:23 GMT -5
I agree with the 3' setback on the corners. Not much land at all to "give up" allow public land to be accessible to others.
Now in regards to the air above the land, what is deemed "useable"? If I shoot clay birds, shot will travel 900 feet. Does that mean that I own 900 feet into the air? If that is true, then couldn't drone operators be prosecuted for trespassing if they flew the drone over my property below that ceiling (as an example)?
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Post by treetop on Apr 27, 2022 4:55:23 GMT -5
Air rights are a funny thing I know a lot of cities have them when it comes to building a tall building and blocking views Up around some of the lakes it’s the same you can’t build something that will block the view of the lake from the people behind on the cheeper lots not all of them but I don’t know if that’s rights or code
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Post by firstwd on Apr 27, 2022 19:20:36 GMT -5
I had to let this digest a bit to develop a thought on the matter.
I am a firm believer in property rights. My opinion is the general public and government itself should have extremely limited influence on what people do with their private property. As for the public land, I feel individuals should have no right to prevent its use by the public.
As for actual "corner crossing", if your private fence it dead on the property line you cannot begrudge the property own on the other side for utilizing it. People crossing a corner post and swinging body parts over private property isn't preventing those properties owners from using their property. For lands that are completely landlocked or landlocked because of corporate leases, I tend to agree with the article that old established easements have been lost in paperwork. If they truly are not there then an easements needs to be negotiated and mandatory in any future leases. For those private property owners who are using the access to landlocked public land as part of their hunting lease deals should be charged for illegally making a profit off of public property.
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Post by featherduster on Apr 30, 2022 19:11:23 GMT -5
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Post by greghopper on Apr 30, 2022 20:05:05 GMT -5
Is there a actual map showing what was done or where they crossed the property lines?
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Post by Ahawkeye on Apr 30, 2022 20:14:56 GMT -5
The price on step ladders just went UP! Good for them, my wish is to see ALL public land unlocked, corner crossing legalized, and more public land users on these properties. I realize this may not be an end to this argument but it is a step in the right direction!
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Post by jman46151 on May 2, 2022 11:29:16 GMT -5
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Post by Ahawkeye on May 2, 2022 18:46:42 GMT -5
Look at the MASSIVE amount of land this could open up! I can understand Iron Bar's displeasure but hey it's public land and I'm quite sure they were using this land for hunts and probably other activities without paying a dime. Now hopefully they will have to share!
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Post by span870 on May 3, 2022 7:01:24 GMT -5
Look at the MASSIVE amount of land this could open up! I can understand Iron Bar's displeasure but hey it's public land and I'm quite sure they were using this land for hunts and probably other activities without paying a dime. Now hopefully they will have to share! Especially since they have a massive civil suit against the guys. That's not to settle a claim, that kind of money is to send a message
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Post by Ahawkeye on May 3, 2022 8:28:58 GMT -5
Look at the MASSIVE amount of land this could open up! I can understand Iron Bar's displeasure but hey it's public land and I'm quite sure they were using this land for hunts and probably other activities without paying a dime. Now hopefully they will have to share! Especially since they have a massive civil suit against the guys. That's not to settle a claim, that kind of money is to send a message Where did you see info on a civil suit?
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