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Post by greghopper on May 3, 2022 8:44:20 GMT -5
Especially since they have a massive civil suit against the guys. That's not to settle a claim, that kind of money is to send a message Where did you see info on a civil suit? In link Duster posted….. when you trespass it’s a crime for the most part! “While this ruling is certainly a victory for the four hunters and public land hunting advocates who have been watching this issue closely, a civil suit still looms in federal court. Iron Bar Holdings argued that the men “committed a civil trespass” and is seeking reparation for civil damages.”
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Post by esshup on May 3, 2022 11:06:49 GMT -5
In instances like this, I believe a counter suit for double or triple the amount that Iron Bar Holdings is suing for is warranted if they lose. Can someone be sued for a frivolous lawsuit?
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Post by Mack Apiary Bees on May 3, 2022 11:20:49 GMT -5
To me this whole thing is all the private doing. Why don't Iron build a corner fence on their property. Very simple and cheap compared to the lawyers costs. Iron is in it for all greed.
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Post by esshup on May 3, 2022 11:34:07 GMT -5
To me this whole thing is all the private doing. Why don't Iron build a corner fence on their property. Very simple and cheap compared to the lawyers costs. Iron is in it for all greed. And the only way to put a limit on their greed is to hit them in the pocket book, and make the amount an amount that means something to them, like a large sum of money would mean something to us "common" folk. Look at the % of gross income as the fine, not a fixed dollar amount. If they are asking for the civil damages from the hunters to be "X" % of their annual income, then the counter suit should be the same %. AND include all the attorney fees and expenses in the winning settlement for the winner.
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Post by Ahawkeye on May 3, 2022 12:20:34 GMT -5
Where did you see info on a civil suit? In link Duster posted….. when you trespass it’s a crime for the most part! “While this ruling is certainly a victory for the four hunters and public land hunting advocates who have been watching this issue closely, a civil suit still looms in federal court. Iron Bar Holdings argued that the men “committed a civil trespass” and is seeking reparation for civil damages.” We will see the outcome of a civil case but a jury already said a crime was not committed. So as we stand today "for the most part" no crime in their actions.
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Post by greghopper on May 3, 2022 12:43:39 GMT -5
In link Duster posted….. when you trespass it’s a crime for the most part! “While this ruling is certainly a victory for the four hunters and public land hunting advocates who have been watching this issue closely, a civil suit still looms in federal court. Iron Bar Holdings argued that the men “committed a civil trespass” and is seeking reparation for civil damages.” We will see the outcome of a civil case but a jury already said a crime was not committed. So as we stand today "for the most part" no crime in their actions. Probably what OJ was thinking the day he was found not guilty! Just saying
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Post by Ahawkeye on May 3, 2022 12:46:50 GMT -5
OJ walked on the strange fact that they couldn't pin it on him and he denied everything. I'd like to believe we know the facts in this case. I knew someone would bring that up.
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Post by omegahunter on May 3, 2022 13:09:16 GMT -5
I seem to remember a TV show that showed a hunter renting a private helicopter to access some public land that was landlocked. He took a tent and camping supplies so he could stay multiple days to hunt. I think the surrounding landowners were honked that he did it. When his hunt was finished he called the chopper back in to get picked up. I have an easement on my property for the Nipsco gas line for the next door neighbors property. It was in the property description when I bought the place. They subsequently terminated the Nipsco gas going to their place and went with propane. Do I need to petition the state to void the easement since it isn't being used? When I called GIS to flag the property before digging to find the gas line and they said that since it's not connected to the house they cannot find it. The State has nothing to do with the NIPSCO easement. Not saying they would or wouldn't do it, but you would have to approach NIPSCO to request that they abandon/extinguish their easement rights. BTW- some easements (old highway r/w grants for example) have a reversionary clause written in them that when the need for the easement vanishes, so does the easement. In that case, a simple affidavit could be filed stating that the line was abandoned and the easement was being extinguished.
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Post by greghopper on May 3, 2022 18:34:07 GMT -5
In instances like this, I believe a counter suit for double or triple the amount that Iron Bar Holdings is suing for is warranted if they lose. Can someone be sued for a frivolous lawsuit? In most cases when someone is sued the person being sued feels that the lawsuit is frivolous. So what is considered “frivolous”often depends on one’s point of view.
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Post by esshup on May 3, 2022 19:00:46 GMT -5
In instances like this, I believe a counter suit for double or triple the amount that Iron Bar Holdings is suing for is warranted if they lose. Can someone be sued for a frivolous lawsuit? In most cases when someone is sued the person being sued feels that the lawsuit is frivolous. So what is considered “frivolous”often depends on one’s point of view. Wouldn't that be for the judge to determine? Take this corner crossing case for instance. What damages were done to the private property?
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Post by greghopper on May 3, 2022 19:18:42 GMT -5
In most cases when someone is sued the person being sued feels that the lawsuit is frivolous. So what is considered “frivolous”often depends on one’s point of view. Wouldn't that be for the judge to determine? Take this corner crossing case for instance. What damages were done to the private property? Disturbed the wildlife sanctuary they had in place could be a example… I am sure the list could go on! You need to look up the civil case if you want the exact claims! I agree there needs to be a easement but just crossing at will is not good. What states is corner crossing legal in ? Anyone know? Illegal in every state?
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Post by Ahawkeye on May 3, 2022 19:33:48 GMT -5
Wouldn't that be for the judge to determine? Take this corner crossing case for instance. What damages were done to the private property? Disturbed the wildlife sanctuary they had in place could be a example… I am sure the list could go on! You need to look up the civil case if you want the exact claims! I agree there needs to be a easement but just crossing at will is not good. What states is corner crossing legal in ? Anyone know? Illegal in every state? I've often wondered, have you ever worn out the exclamation point button on your key board/phone/device? Man, you use the heck out of that thing!"!" In my opinion 2 things are in need of fixing, corner crossing needs to be legalized and these land owners need to pony up the money for exclusive use of public ground.
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Post by greghopper on May 3, 2022 19:58:49 GMT -5
Just make the land “No Hunting” and I bet the problem fixes itself in some ways. IMO
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Post by Ahawkeye on May 3, 2022 20:05:27 GMT -5
Just make the land “No Hunting” and I bet the problem fixes itself in some ways. IMO Sure, because all the big time ranchers follow the rules. And there's plenty of COs to enforce those rules.
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Post by greghopper on May 3, 2022 20:18:09 GMT -5
Just make the land “No Hunting” and I bet the problem fixes itself in some ways. IMO Sure, because all the big time ranchers follow the rules. And there's plenty of COs to enforce those rules. I have no first hand knowledge of that … I always considered Ranchers as hard working honest Americans.
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Post by Ahawkeye on May 3, 2022 20:49:27 GMT -5
Sure, because all the big time ranchers follow the rules. And there's plenty of COs to enforce those rules. I have no first hand knowledge of that … I always considered Ranchers as hard working honest Americans. Most probably are, there are some or more than a few that ride into public ground, pretend to round up cattle and push as many elk as they can onto their property. Another example is water. Water is gold in the west, share the water everyone thrives hoard the water and everyone down stream suffers. Ranchers do this quite often. These guys know what they're doing they couldn't give two squats about the ground near those corners, it's the ground past those corners they want to keep to themselves.
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Post by span870 on May 4, 2022 4:34:59 GMT -5
Sure, because all the big time ranchers follow the rules. And there's plenty of COs to enforce those rules. I have no first hand knowledge of that … I always considered Ranchers as hard working honest Americans. Ranchers yes. Outfitters on said ranches, usually. Been on enough outfitted hunts to know many push those lines. As I stated previously, I absolutely agree with your earlier statement. Either allow an easement to public lands or public lands become no trespassing. This all is simple to understand once you search elk mountain ranch and see the hunts they offer on the "ranch" and cost of hunts. Civil suit is slippery slope and agree that they need to file a counter suit against the ranch. These hunters lose and it sets a precedence. The hunters win and it does the same. It's a shame that nothing will get resolved except possibly in a civil court and even at that both cases may end up being a loss. Access to state of federal lands need to be decided once and for all by parties involved
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Post by Ahawkeye on May 4, 2022 6:11:30 GMT -5
I realize what you are saying but who would police this? Wildlife workers and COs are already straetched thin. There's not enough resources to enforce a no trespassing law on millions of landlocked public ground. The rancher isn't going to turn the oufitter in, the client usually would have no clue and the outfitter isn't going to turn himself in. The only option I see is making corner crossing legal. These guys don't buy this ground because it's pretty, they buy it because they get twice the ground for half the taxes.
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Post by greghopper on May 4, 2022 7:05:46 GMT -5
I realize what you are saying but who would police this? Wildlife workers and COs are already straetched thin. There's not enough resources to enforce a no trespassing law on millions of landlocked public ground. The rancher isn't going to turn the oufitter in, the client usually would have no clue and the outfitter isn't going to turn himself in. The only option I see is making corner crossing legal. These guys don't buy this ground because it's pretty, they buy it because they get twice the ground for half the taxes. Personally I believe it would take a BIG corner crossing to pack out a Elk or other game of any great size...a simple step ladder is not the complete answer. At some point feet or vehicle are going to cross on actual ground. IMO I do agree something needs done to satisfy all parties.
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Post by Ahawkeye on May 4, 2022 7:18:43 GMT -5
Yeah the step ladder thing is kinda sketchy especially when talking about heavy packs. But I believe there was a question posted here once on how "thick" a state line is, I believe your response was "pencil lead thin" I would think a prperty line would be the same. Only issue would be a fence or something on both private corners. I'm sure most of the corners are fenced though.
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