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Post by boonechaser on Feb 9, 2015 15:26:34 GMT -5
Have a friends dad who caught a Bobcat in one of his foot hold trap's. (A large female). He called local CO who said he would come out. A day passed and no CO. So he called a again next day and left a message for CO. Again another day passed no CO. On the 3rd day he went to check on bobcat and it was still in trap but appeared to have broken it's leg trying to get out of trap so he shot it and brought to house. Again called CO and told him he put bobcat down and kept the remains for them to pickup. Finally a week later CO showed up and picked up bobcat and a week later he get's a citation for illegally killing a bobcat. Now he has had to spend $500 on a attorney to fight the citation. He was told he shouldn't have put Bobcat down. So he was suppossed to just let the animal suffer and die??? Case is still pending, but makes absolutly no sense to me.
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Post by throbak on Feb 9, 2015 15:51:17 GMT -5
I would have took pics Turned it loose and THEN called CO
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 9, 2015 16:07:20 GMT -5
Said he made several attempts to turn lose but this wasn't a little kitty. He showed me pic's and I'd say 40-50 lbs plus. Big or bigger than any coyote I've seen in awhile. I'm not a trapper but no way I'd be sticking my hand near that thing. If he would have got it loose there would have been no reason to call CO.
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Post by ms660 on Feb 9, 2015 16:12:09 GMT -5
They are not a fun critter to release, but one man should have no problems releasing one. I would have did the same as throbak but I don't even call the CO's anymore. They know there is a pretty good population here in Pike county now.
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Post by ms660 on Feb 9, 2015 16:26:21 GMT -5
Said he made several attempts to turn lose but this wasn't a little kitty. He showed me pic's and I'd say 40-50 lbs plus. Big or bigger than any coyote I've seen in awhile. I'm not a trapper but no way I'd be sticking my hand near that thing. If he would have got it loose there would have been no reason to call CO. It's possible I guess, but unlikely that it weighed 40 to 50 lbs. Adult males average around 20-25lbs and females 15-20. I'm assuming this was in Indiana? They are good at making themselves look bigger that they actually are when in defensive mode. Your friend needs to get a good catch& release pole. I have used this to do it before. It's really a hog catcher. You can get them at Rural King. I have a better one I use now that I made. It's a little longer than this one.  |
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Post by featherduster on Feb 9, 2015 16:27:14 GMT -5
I would have used a dog snare to hold it down release the trap then either take it and release it from the safety of my truck or if I was feeling adventurous I would have just released it at the trap site.
I would think that a good trapper should be prepared for this type of incident.
If this matter went to a court proceeding I would think a prosecutor would drop this or a judge would dismiss it because
this person tried on numerous occasions to make contact with a Conservation officer and then finally dispatched the animal to avoid further pain and suffering.
I hope he took photos of the animal in the trap in a distressed manner and I hope he has the telephone calls listed an a cell phone to show his attempts to contact the Conservation officer.
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Post by chubwub on Feb 9, 2015 17:56:43 GMT -5
Definitely take it to court. It is appalling that the CO allowed the bobcat to rot in the trap for 3 days, busy or not.
I agree with everyone else that a good catch pole will make releasing much easier. You can also use a Rubbermaid container to put over top of the cat so just his paw is sticking out and sit on top of the container while you get the foot out. Then if he turns on you at least you have a shield, lol.
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Post by throbak on Feb 9, 2015 18:20:22 GMT -5
The way I read it they just want to know about them . not necessarily the ones to run them loose I would not have knowingly left it there 1 night let alone 3
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Post by firstwd on Feb 9, 2015 20:02:54 GMT -5
At no point is a CO required to come release someones incidental catches. There was a time that the DNR was putting radio collars on bobcats and they wanted to kn ow about all catches to try to collar as many as possible. Trappers are responsible for their traps and all animals in them. By the letter of the law, he would have been money ahead to have just paid the fine. At this point, it looks like he will pay the fine and the lawyer.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 20:03:50 GMT -5
Good general info on bobcats here. One was weighed at 71 pounds in Maine once, wow, that was a whopper! www.nationaltrappers.com/bobcat.htmlAs for my thoughts? It would be a travesty if this guy gets in trouble for trying to do the right thing. He should not be out a dime in court/lawyer fees either. |
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Post by greghopper on Feb 9, 2015 21:45:05 GMT -5
At no point is a CO required to come release someones incidental catches. There was a time that the DNR was putting radio collars on bobcats and they wanted to kn ow about all catches to try to collar as many as possible. Trappers are responsible for their traps and all animals in them. By the letter of the law, he would have been money ahead to have just paid the fine. At this point, it looks like he will pay the fine and the lawyer.  .... That is my thought also!!! I really like to hear the CO's side of the story also.... |
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 9, 2015 23:01:15 GMT -5
The CO told him he would recommend the minimum fine as he was trying to do the right thing. He didn't want to ticket him but his superior told him to?? This is the story. I guess my problem is why did it take so long to show up for one, Why tell the guy you are coming and not show up and then wait another week to pick up the dead bobcat??? I think it will all be dropped myself.
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 9, 2015 23:12:53 GMT -5
Now these are fact's as I gathered from conversation. May vary a little??? I think once the cat broke her leg that her fate was sealed. As I am sure the CO would have put it down as well. The picture I saw was him holding it up after it was dead. Granted they carry much more fur in winter making them look larger, but it was as big as any coyote I have seen. The guy is also a really good person and I am sure he had no intention's of doing anything illegal.
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 9, 2015 23:18:09 GMT -5
I was mainly just curious to what some of you other trapper's would have done. Don't want to stir the thing up and create more problems for the guy or tic the local CO's off... Sound's like maybe he should have got more help and got the cat free??
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Post by GS1 on Feb 10, 2015 0:41:54 GMT -5
I don't trap, but if I did I would be prepared to get anything caught in one free. Dogs, cats, the neighbors kid. Whatever it is. I think too that it is the trappers responsibility to be prepared and able to do so.
I've watched a few videos of a guy a know taking bobcats out of his traps this winter. Some are more willing than others.
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Post by firstwd on Feb 10, 2015 6:26:31 GMT -5
As for taking so much time to get to the location, this is generally considered a slow time of year for the officers. Because of that, vacation time is spent this time of year. We also have two district 9 officers coming up on retirement and they are limited as to how much accrued time off they can be paid for. I personally know one that is still listed as active but is on vacation until mid April. The guys are shorthanded currently and are having to cover multiple counties.
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Post by chubwub on Feb 10, 2015 11:14:32 GMT -5
I ran this situation by my fiance who has done quite a bit of trapping and his opinion was quite interesting. He also commented that you are responsible for your catch but also mentioned on the same token that it was not unreasonable to call a CO for aid in releasing a bobcat, especially since they are protected, and therefore there is incentive to make sure this animal stays alive and healthy. Also, if a CO aids you in the release, you have undeniable proof that the bobcat was released unharmed.
He said the fact that the call was not responded to for 3 days was very bad (like someone in the DNR might get in trouble bad) and at the very least a biologist or someone else from the DNR could have more than likely been sent out to help assist or at least give a callback to the gentleman and discuss further options with him. Sorry, but I am on the side of "The DNR really dropped the ball" on this one. By admission, it is a slow time of the year for them. There should be no reason that they should have been able to send someone out or at least have someone call back and discuss things with the man.
As for what I would have done? Hopefully the right thing... but if that story is what happens when you do the right thing, then no way in heck I'm serving myself up on a silver platter for violations.
I suppose if I could not have gotten the cat out by myself and ran out of ideas and the CO still wouldn't come out and the animal was suffering I would probably engineer a "natural" death for the animal or pray that its weakened state would be enough to allow me to release it. All you have to do is make sure it is alive when you let it go.
I will say this: Based on the facts that have been given, if I hypothetically was to find myself in this kind of situation in the future, no CO would be called and a very deep grave would be dug if things went south and the cat somehow died. Bobcat? What bobcat?
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Post by hunterman on Feb 10, 2015 13:13:29 GMT -5
There is no way the charges or fine would stick. As a matter of fact when this reached a higher up or the media the DNR will beg to put this issue to rest. Its a shame if these are truly the facts of the case. He has a better chance of animal cruelty violation than any other violation. The guy should have called the Director and this issue would have been resolved immediately. Most CO's would have handled this differently, sounds like a rookie who just needs some training.
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Post by throbak on Feb 10, 2015 13:22:19 GMT -5
I know Lots of Trappers and to the Man Not one would leave an animal in a trap for 4 days not one for this IMO there is no excuse and he deserves every violation that is imposed you just DG don't do that sort of thing NEVER FOR ANY REASON
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 13:31:25 GMT -5
Just makes me VERY glad I don't mess with trapping. Too much hassle for my taste.
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