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Post by cambygsp on Dec 14, 2009 8:14:02 GMT -5
ive got a mineral block and a decoy in my back yard Well as long as your not hunting anywhere around your house or property that connects to it you should be ok!
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Post by cambygsp on Dec 14, 2009 8:21:17 GMT -5
I have a question. It says anything done under normal agricultural practices. Is that normal for all farmers or just normal for any individual farmer. What if I normally harvest corn and dump it in the field in a pile? That is normal for me, so would it be ok to hunt over the pile? That may be "normal" for you......but to me it don't sound like a "normal" thing to do. It also don't sound "normal" to me if a farmer grows a nice crop of corn and then mows several rows or all of it down......or leave it standing all year long.......most farmers that I know harvest their crops and sell them and attempt to make a profit. The reason I bring this up is because of the fact that a CO can decide if your baiting or not. I beleive the law should decide........not the enforcement officer. There are so many folks doing the mineral thing and they have convinced themselves it's legal......and it's not! Adjustments need to be made......at the very least there should be a exemt if you are so many yards from the mineral site!
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 14, 2009 8:39:10 GMT -5
I don't really think "mineral sites" does all that much to improve the health of the herd. They are good for congregating deer for trail camera pictures in spring, summer and early fall. After that the deer pretty well abandon them.
It IS a call shot on a CO's part whether a person is using the mineral to their advantage. The best thing to do is not use them period.
BTW - With nothing on the net or TV I watched a "deer hunting show". In that the land owners/hunters of the gorund bush hogged the first 12 rows around a standing corn field and then hunted it. This was in late season with snow on the ground. They then went to waylaying the bigger buck deer that fogged into the field with MZs. IMO - that was baiting deer, but was perfectly legal in that state because they did not carry in corn to bait.
Tell me the difference.
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Post by js2397 on Dec 14, 2009 8:44:43 GMT -5
I have a question. It says anything done under normal agricultural practices. Is that normal for all farmers or just normal for any individual farmer. What if I normally harvest corn and dump it in the field in a pile? That is normal for me, so would it be ok to hunt over the pile? That may be "normal" for you......but to me it don't sound like a "normal" thing to do. It also don't sound "normal" to me if a farmer grows a nice crop of corn and then mows several rows or all of it down......or leave it standing all year long.......most farmers that I know harvest their crops and sell them and attempt to make a profit. The reason I bring this up is because of the fact that a CO can decide if your baiting or not. I beleive the law should decide........not the enforcement officer. There are so many folks doing the mineral thing and they have convinced themselves it's legal......and it's not! Adjustments need to be made......at the very least there should be a exemt if you are so many yards from the mineral site! Maybe one of our CO's on here could answer that then. Does normal mean normal for that individual or normal for an entire population. I would guess if you could show that what you did was normal for you then you would win in court.
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Post by Decatur on Dec 14, 2009 12:27:49 GMT -5
By normal they mean what most farmers would do, not what is normal for an individual. Dumping corn is NOT normal. Stop looking for loop holes!
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Post by cambygsp on Dec 14, 2009 12:50:50 GMT -5
Stop looking for loop holes! Thats just it.......so many are looking for the loop holes then convince themselves that what they are doing is legal when it is clearly not.
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Post by Decatur on Dec 14, 2009 12:56:00 GMT -5
Camby! The loop holers always seem to forget that there is also the spirit of the law to contend with. If they would put their brains to work figuring out the deer where they hunt, they wouldn't need loop holes!
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Post by js2397 on Dec 14, 2009 13:04:24 GMT -5
I am not looking for a loop hole. I just think the law is very vague. I would assume if you could show a previous history of your farming practices then any good lawyer would be able to show that is normal. Farmer's salt for livestock is not bait but salt is bait. Hunting with the aid of bait there must be some evidence that shows the bait aided you in the harvest. Everyone is in agreement that deer don't use salt or minerals in the fall so they could not be used to aid in the harvest. It would be much better to have an exact requirement. No hunting within 300 yards of a baited area.
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Post by Decatur on Dec 14, 2009 13:08:20 GMT -5
I wasn't directing my comments at you Js, I know it seems that way, but really I wasn't. I would bet it doesn't matter what you normally do, it's what everyone else does that determines what normal is. What would be your explaination as to why you dump corn?
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Post by js2397 on Dec 14, 2009 13:17:36 GMT -5
I wasn't directing my comments at you Js, I know it seems that way, but really I wasn't. I would bet it doesn't matter what you normally do, it's what everyone else does that determines what normal is. What would be your explaination as to why you dump corn? Maybe a sacrifice to the land gods. I didn't take offense to what you said. We just continue to have this same discussion about bait. It would be better if the law wasn't so vague.
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Post by Decatur on Dec 14, 2009 13:20:46 GMT -5
I definately agree with the vague thing.
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Post by gobblerstopper on Dec 14, 2009 13:55:36 GMT -5
By the opinions of some here, I should cut down the 50 pine trees I planted when my parents bought their ground, because I planted them with the sole purpose of manipulating the turkeys to roost on their ground
I should, I guess, also cut down the 100 oak trees that I planted 5 years ago and the additional 100 that I planted last winter, because I did so for the sole purpose of manipulating the deer to eat acorns and one day my son to sit by them and shoot a deer.
Farmers do dump corn. Mold? Test plots? Not for human consumption, but the deer/turkeys love it. I know a couple of farmers that have a wagon full every year that gets dumped.
Indiana should just legalize baiting. It would allow the DNR to further decimate the doe herd and there would be no grey areas in the law.
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Post by throbak on Dec 14, 2009 14:14:06 GMT -5
baiting might be ok if we had miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles as the case seems to be where baiting is legal ,But here that is not the case if gobble stop had a bad acorn year and his neighbor had piles of corn he,s SOL think about it .
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Post by gobblerstopper on Dec 14, 2009 14:29:56 GMT -5
baiting might be ok if we had miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles as the case seems to be where baiting is legal Baiting is legal 5 miles from where I hunt. They have the same "miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles" that I have where I hunt?
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Post by indianahick on Dec 14, 2009 15:14:05 GMT -5
I do know that farmers sometimes get fields of corn that are not sell able because there was a problem caused by the weed or insect control that they used. Although it is the same brand that they always use it somehow became contaminated and ruined the corn/beans for sale. They take samples of those fields to their local farm bureau to prove that it wasn't sell able and then collect on the crop insurance that they purchased. Those fields if already picket are dumped or if not picked brush hogged. Sometimes if dumped it is dumped into the fields and at others it may be dumped into a private pit (the cat fish love it when this happens). Buster enlighten us on your personal opinion of raising a field of corn, then picking it and finally dumping it intentionally. My opinion is that that comes under baiting. I think that intentionally brush hogging would be baiting also.
I personally have grown to feel that the baiting laws should be changed to allow the usage of bagged bait. This would put those that don't have access to large plots of land on a more level playing field with those that do and can plant food plots, turnips, etc.
Until they are changed I will still be one of those that hunt and pray for a deer to come thru their area.
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Post by buster on Dec 14, 2009 15:23:05 GMT -5
You guys are killing me!!!! Its the same pizzing match on here year after year, only this year its a little later in the season than in years past. If you are worried about officer's discretion, then SIMPLY don't put out bait! Get off your lazy butts and invest a little money and elbow grease into a food plot and leave the rest to Mother Nature. I know a lot of folks are allergic to blisters and sweat and a little muscle fatigue, but get over it already! If you don't like it, petition to get the law changed or hunt in a state that allows baiting.
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Post by js2397 on Dec 14, 2009 15:23:49 GMT -5
baiting might be ok if we had miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles as the case seems to be where baiting is legal Baiting is legal 5 miles from where I hunt. They have the same "miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles" that I have where I hunt? I hunt less than five miles from Kentucky and they can bait. I don't know that baiting would really help the harvest any. I have never been one to set on the edge of a field and wait. I like being in the woods even if I see less deer it just feels more like hunting and I don't get as board.
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Post by js2397 on Dec 14, 2009 15:27:15 GMT -5
You guys are killing me!!!! Its the same pizzing match on here year after year, only this year its a little later in the season than in years past. If you are worried about officer's discretion, then SIMPLY don't put out bait! Get off your lazy butts and invest a little money and elbow grease into a food plot and leave the rest to Mother Nature. I know a lot of folks are allergic to blisters and sweat and a little muscle fatigue, but get over it already! If you don't like it, petition to get the law changed or hunt in a state that allows baiting. I am not worried about officers discretion. I think most are only going to cite someone if they break the law. What i do worry about is being able to convict someone if they are cited. I would think any good lawyer could get someone off unless they saw the person shoot the deer while using the bait.
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Post by Decatur on Dec 14, 2009 15:33:53 GMT -5
You guys are killing me!!!! Its the same pizzing match on here year after year, only this year its a little later in the season than in years past. If you are worried about officer's discretion, then SIMPLY don't put out bait! Get off your lazy butts and invest a little money and elbow grease into a food plot and leave the rest to Mother Nature. I know a lot of folks are allergic to blisters and sweat and a little muscle fatigue, but get over it already! If you don't like it, petition to get the law changed or hunt in a state that allows baiting. AMEN!
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Post by trophyhunter1 on Dec 14, 2009 15:35:50 GMT -5
You guys are killing me!!!! Its the same pizzing match on here year after year, only this year its a little later in the season than in years past. If you are worried about officer's discretion, then SIMPLY don't put out bait! Get off your lazy butts and invest a little money and elbow grease into a food plot and leave the rest to Mother Nature. I know a lot of folks are allergic to blisters and sweat and a little muscle fatigue, but get over it already! If you don't like it, petition to get the law changed or hunt in a state that allows baiting. great post...x2
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