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Post by esshup on Sept 16, 2010 14:02:06 GMT -5
I have a friend that owns roughly 75 acres in Starke County. He is an absentee landowner and has owned the property for 4 years. Nobody has hunted it (with his permission) since he's owned it.
He has given me sole permission to hunt the property this year.
He has had trespass problems in the past, and recently installed an expensive trail camera (Buckeye Apollo) to monitor who was going down his driveway. The camera was approx. 3/8 mile off of the road. The camera was in a locked steel box, cabled to the tree with a 3/8" Python lock. In less than 3 weeks it was stolen - the cable was cut. He called the sheriff and filed a report. His primeter signs have been continually torn down, so he went to the expense of having the property surveyed and installed painted steel posts every 50 yds to mark the property lines. In previous years he has found tree stands on the property, and trot lines in his ponds. He has had enough, and will press charges against any trespassers. He has never caught anyone on the property (yet), so I'm thinking it's someone very local.
What does he need to do to make it easier to sucessfully prosecute any trespassers? Can I call the sheriff or C.O. if I see a trespasser? Who should I call?
With his camera being stolen, I am very leery of putting one up, or putting out any tree stands.
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Post by steve46511 on Sept 16, 2010 14:32:52 GMT -5
Not a lot of real good advice for ya, but what has worked best for us is having someone IN the property as much as possible or at least checking it.
Others may have more knowledge but EASIEST would be for the owner to give YOU hunting rights, IN writting, and YOU can prosecute, depending a lot on how far away he is but if the person with the hunting rights calls..........they listen more it seems to me??? It just gets to be confusing without the person able to press charges involved and involved at the scene. ALSO if YOU have the hunting rights..........YOU can remove tree stands, and keep them as far as what I understand but Id ask the County PD OR CO.
Id have printed out pages showing the property boundary handy at all times as well. "I didnt know" will come up. Make sure they do after that.
Taking their stands down repeatedly, giving them fair warning, reporting it to the land owner AND PD when you do....it will take time but they will figure it out real fast. And I WOULDNT put up stands, unless I just moved theirs! LOL Ive given up stands for just that reason. I can no longer afford 3-5 new stands every year taken in a woods NO ONE could legally hunt without me being with them.
For a year or two you might want to enlist other hunters to hunt days you cant to get the point accross.
Out of sight, out of mind plays a big part for those hunting anyway. Unsure where in Starke you mean but Im not horribly far away and would be open to a couple "antlerless" deer hunts if you decide to go that route.
NOT just looking for a "free hunt" but Ive been there, done that, and it aint fun to do alone and ONLY those with WRITTEN permission should be allowed on the property once you get hunting rights, then make SURE the CO knows that.........he will check occasionally when in the area, or the ones Ive dealt with would.
I "hear about" more guys in Starke that do this, dont bother with tags, or checking them in..........than the other counties around me. Some of them told me themselves when I used to hang out in Knox.
It will be a battle........be forewarned.
God Bless Steve
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Post by retnuhreed on Sept 16, 2010 15:39:16 GMT -5
There are a lot of hunters with no respect. A little arrest goes a long way. From what I understand the landowner has to be the one to press charges.
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Post by esshup on Sept 16, 2010 16:59:29 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I will have written permission to hunt, and to be on the property even if I'm not hunting as well - I'm partially managing the property for him and the hunting is the compensation. The landowner (at least this year) doesn't want me to even have anybody accompany me. I asked about my nephew who he's met, and he said not this year. So, it's his rules, and I'll adhere to his rules to the letter. I have permission to deer and turkey hunt, but nothing else unless it's a possible danger to his kids. I'll swing by the sheriff's office tomorrow and ask them what the rules are, and I also sent the DNR an e-mail asking the same thing. I had heard that if I didn't have permission in writing, and it was just verbal, the landowner had to call the sheriff or C.O. for a trespasser. If I had permission in writing, I could call and not have to disturb him. I have a feeling that anybody that I run into won't be on their best behavior, so I need to take that into consideration when confronting them. I have a feeling that I'll either be hunting from the ground this year. Even tho I have a climber, it's too slow to get to the ground if I see anyone where they shouldn't be. Steve, you get that LR pistol dialed in yet?
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Post by firstwd on Sept 16, 2010 17:58:49 GMT -5
I would agree with that thought- as soon as property taxes are no longer, people have respect enough of others belongings to leave things alone while they're on that property, and everybody pays up for the crops those critters eat.
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Post by steve46511 on Sept 16, 2010 18:27:51 GMT -5
"Steve, you get that LR pistol dialed in yet? " Uh......no. Due date mid Aug, then first of Sept, NOW? "maybe end of the month". Sent email today asking if Ill still lose 100 dollars if I cancel it all together. Five and a half months since ordered ..........and saying things went to pot right after I paid for it would be an understatement. So....unsure at this point if Im getting it at all. Stay with that ground. Helping the owner out will pay for itself for years.........and post pictures! God Bless Steve
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Post by featherduster on Sept 16, 2010 18:41:42 GMT -5
ESSHUP: Being from Starke Co. you should know that a lot of those hill-rods that trespass can't even read. Placing cameras along a driveway even when it's in a steel box that is cabled to a tree is like screaming "HERE I AM STEAL ME-STEAL ME". I would have the owner contact the local CO and explain to him the problems he is having.
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Post by freedomhunter on Sept 16, 2010 19:07:20 GMT -5
get to know your local ICO and put him/her on speed dial, use a climber and be patient, don't leave anything in the woods to be stolen, it is a process, use the CO and good things will happen, in the end trespassers/poachers are stupid and can be caught
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Post by throbak on Sept 16, 2010 19:10:02 GMT -5
if they are caught. act like a compleat Idiot ,Scream, cuss,kick things, jump up and down spit and foam at the mouth most understand those actions and pass the word along about THE CRAZY ONE. it works ;D
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Post by wileyonetoo on Sept 16, 2010 19:22:56 GMT -5
wow DeerSlayr...please tell me you're kidding. You sound a lot like the tresspasser that we had to kick off of the family farm last year. Your plan kind of sounds like a plan Obama would roll out.
I know a guy that sold his ground in Parke county because he had to deal with people with that attitude every time he headed to his ground. He actually had one of the neighbors tell him that they had always had permission to hunt it since they were kids and he "screwed it up". Wow. Absolutely unacceptable. He told them that they had the same opportunity that he did to work for it and buy it for themselves.
Good luck esshup!!
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Post by jrbhunter on Sept 16, 2010 19:26:55 GMT -5
Placing cameras along a driveway even when it's in a steel box that is cabled to a tree is like screaming HERE I AM STEAL ME-STEAL ME Grab yourself an armload of old barn wood and slap together 6-8 half-hazzard bird houses. Nail them in some of the most obvious places along the drive, 6'-8' off the ground. Mount your trail camera in one of the boxes and position it with the proper slant to catch incoming and outgoing vehicles. Definately consult the conservation officer immediately. These situations often escellate into stolen treestands, poached deer, ruts in fields and other prosecutable offenses if proper authorities are involved from the beginning. Don't get too comfortable on opening morning of gun season... you'll probably be chasing flashlights for the first year or two.
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Post by danf on Sept 16, 2010 19:37:04 GMT -5
wow DeerSlayr...please tell me you're kidding. Much of the Northeast is considered "private ownership/public use", meaning that if the property isn't posted you don't have to have permission to be on it. Seeking permission is highly encouraged though, and if you are on someones land and they ask you to leave you have to go and can't come back until you get permission. It's a completely different attitude up here concerning property rights. However, New England looks NOTHING like the midwest in terms of topography or cover....
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Post by retnuhreed on Sept 16, 2010 19:42:33 GMT -5
We had 2000 pine trees planted in our crp field a couple years ago. Last fall someone drove their four wheeler up and down the field looking for a deer I presume. There is a lot of bad apples in the hunting community.
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Post by single_shooter on Sept 16, 2010 21:27:11 GMT -5
Had this same issue with several fellas who could not seem to understand that they no longer had permission to hunt my uncle's land after he sold it to the family and quit farming. They always showed up and always said they had permission...yada - yada - yada....
They finally understood just how determined we were when 2 of them were hunted down in the woods by me and 2 police officers - had their shotguns confiscated - were issued court summons' by the C.O. who arrived just as we exited the woods - had their trucks confiscated - and had charges pressed by my other uncle who now farmed the land.
I had called a couple times to the local PD and the first thing the dispatcher would ask..."are there and no trespassing signs posted?" When I said that I had run these guys out several times over the past 2 years she said there wasn't anything they could do being that they had nobody to answer the call. So I told her that I could do something and that in about 2 minutes I would have my shotgun loaded and go find them myself.....funny how not one but two county officers suddenly had time to come do their job!!!! And they showed up in under 10 minutes!!!!!
It is bad enough that we have to deal with these rude people and the risk of being shot by some jackass who has no idea who is there or where they are located....but to have to deal with the apathy of police who basically refuse to deal with "the little stuff" til ya make them.
Good luck!!! Took us about 3 years to get them run out....and this was after a couple local kids and their Dad had used Dad's lawn tractor and blade to make and ATV track in our deer woods including digging up the ground to pile up the dirt to make banked turns!!!! And the police would still do nothing but go "talk to them".
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Post by wileyonetoo on Sept 16, 2010 22:02:30 GMT -5
"It's a completely different attitude up here"
That was my point, the attitude of the thread and the 'share the wealth' mentality.
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Post by jabba on Sept 17, 2010 7:38:49 GMT -5
I think that tresspassers suck. I also think that landowners that don't allow hunting, but complain about the damage that wildlife does suck.
Personally, I think that in order for a landowner to get depridation tags... they should be required to allow X number of people, access to their property to hunt. Some of these people should have to be referred to them by the DNR, in a private land access program. Now... said landowner should be able to interview prospective applicants, and allow or not allow them, but they, IMO, should have to allow SOME if they want to get depridation tags.
We have some guys that hunt on the edge of our property in Martin County. They don't ask. We don't know who they are. And frankly, they hunt a crappy spot. We don't mess with them. But they were leaving trash for a while. We posted signs for them to clean up their own messes... and they did. No more trash.
Jabba
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Post by bigballer on Sept 17, 2010 8:12:22 GMT -5
Haven't had many issues with trespassers but have had a few. Had more problems with them in the past when the mine allowed hunting on their land and they would wonder onto ours. Now that the land has been purchased by some new people in the last 8 years or so we have only had as far as I know 2-3 people trespass on to us. Our biggest issue is the other edge of our propertyy is next to a public hunting area so as Jabba said they like to hunt right on the line.... Problem with that is our stands are right close to the line as well and so I've had 4-5 tree stands stolen over the last 6-8 years.
And the problem with letting people just go on your land and hunt is the fact that 1 out of every 6-7 people are bad people and will steal something if they get the chance or cut trees down to clear their shooting lanes or whatever. One guy cut down 3 Oak trees that we had planted a few years back so he could shoot in that direction........ So you have to keep them all out good and bad people. Only way to be sure. BB
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Post by irishhunter on Sept 17, 2010 8:24:37 GMT -5
It always amazes me to hear how much stuff gets stolen out of the woods. You would think as Hunters we would have some morals and ethics. I completely understand why a land owner would not want to let people hunt his property.
If someone will steal a lock on or camera what else will they do.. We had guys set up a meth lab on our property in Freedom. Needless to say we sold it...
Hang your no tresspassing signs high so a ladder is needed to pull them down and try to catch them with a hidden camera.
Good luck to you ..
Im curious as to how many people have had something of thiers stolen out of the woods that they own
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Post by jabba on Sept 17, 2010 11:21:33 GMT -5
The guys that stole the camera probably did so, in order to prevent getting their picture reported.
Get a trail cam that e-mails the pictures to you as soon as it takes them. They are spendy... but it might be what it takes. I'd put a sign on it too that simply says... "Pictures taken by this camera are immediately emailed to it's Owner. Don't bother stealing it, or tearing it up, as that will only lead to additional criminal charges." Like they say... strap on some decoys too. Use actual cameras too. That will take pictures of each other. So... you get pictures of them actually sealing the other one.
To me, trapping tresspassers seems almost as much fun as the deer hunting.
Jabba
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Post by esshup on Sept 18, 2010 10:43:18 GMT -5
I totally agree guys.
The property owner has spent a lot of $ improving his property, and will be spending a lot more in the years to come.
I have been helping him improve the place out of friendship. He knows that I hunt, and he asked me if I wanted to hunt on his place as sort of a repayment. I told him that it wasn't necessary, but it sure was appreciated. ;D
I have spend 100's of hours and many $1,000's improving my place for wildlife, and have let people that I know hunt my property in the past. I ended up not letting them hunt after a few years. They never once asked if I needed any help planting/maintaining the food plots, maintaining the tree stands, the trails, or anything else around here. Why should I allow them to hunt if they won't show any sign of appreciating it?
I have a few friends that help me do things on the place, and they are allowed to hunt here anytime they ask.
My problem with trespassers ended when I caught one and we had a little talk. I explained to him that he was at the far end of my rifle range, and that since I lived alone on the property, I didn't bother checking the whole range before I shot. I told him that I shoot with ear plugs and ear muffs, and I would have a hard time hearing a 4-wheeler at 400 Yds. That seemed to solve the problem. I didn't tell him that I always check the whole range before pulling the trigger.
The property owner and I will be putting up new new trespassing signs this weekend or this coming week. Putting them up high is a good idea. I'll be doing more scouting on the place in the next few weeks, and hopefully my random visits will help deter trespassers. I know opening weekend of gun season will be a challenge. I think it will be interesting to walk the perimiter a week after the first snow. That will be interesting!
The bird house suggestion is a good one, as are the others. He looked into the cameras that sent a picture to his computer, but didn't want to spend the $$ on another monthly cell bill. Those cameras really aren't any more expensive than the camera that got stolen. That might change when I talk to him this weekend.
I'm sure that we'll have caught at least one trespasser by the end of October, and maybe a few more by the end of November.
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