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Post by chubwub on Jun 27, 2014 17:14:29 GMT -5
Seriously? HALF the deer left to rot BEFORE dressed out and the number of kill being in the 20s? It would be as difficult as the CO walking in and seeing several rotted deer or finding them anywhere. A radical departure from "accidently" leaving one to rot or just leaving it in the field which would need eye witnesses. Taking it HOME to rot does not change a thing. All that is needed is a CO to know about it. They have to put rotted corpses somewhere. Taking them home doesn't change anything if still left to rot. God bless Indeed it is a crime and in the books, but as I said, they keep the deer concealed in a shed, and at the very least will dispose of the carcass before it completely thaws and spoils, making wanton waste hard to prove, as they can simply say that they finally butchered it or ate it. They hunt every single season, and will usually dump the deer they kill in one batch before moving on to another free-for all. Sometimes they will be lazy and just cut out some back-straps and toss the rest. Unfortunately, around here I would say about %50 of the hunters are like them. The only thing that stops them from killing 8 deer is that they just aren't that good. It's amazing what people will tell complete strangers sometimes.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 27, 2014 18:41:37 GMT -5
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Post by swilk on Jun 27, 2014 18:49:18 GMT -5
His answer is consistent with what I read....retrieve the animal and after that you have no responsibility to do anything further.
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Post by swilk on Jun 27, 2014 18:57:35 GMT -5
I copied it from a DNR sheet....saw the exact same wording in several other links....DNR and private. Pretty confident the wording is accurate .....
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 27, 2014 19:24:12 GMT -5
I copied it from a DNR sheet....saw the exact same wording in several other links....DNR and private. Pretty confident the wording is accurate ..... Indiana or Illinois ?
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Post by swilk on Jun 27, 2014 19:25:29 GMT -5
Indiana.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 27, 2014 21:05:16 GMT -5
Sounds to be an enforceable law then?
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Post by moose1am on Jun 27, 2014 21:08:17 GMT -5
As I suspected they reduced my county from a 8 to a 3 and its about time ..Thank god we were suffering .Now we are safe from the late gun season . Between The guys who been over doing it here for years and the EHD that crushed the local deer herd here ,now they pay the price as we all do here . This makes several counties now taken out of the late gun season up here in north central IN. A little bit about White Tail Dear Biology that I learned in my Wildlife Biology Class at Purdue University. This is the very same class that the Director of Indiana DNR F&W took.
WTD does will produce more eggs when the population gets lower. With less deer to feed the browse grows back and this triggers more food for the remaining deer. These better fed females will produce more eggs and thus have the potential to produce more fawns. Nature has a way of replenishing itself. Wildlife Biologist know this and much more about how to manage the population of White Tail Deer.
I would assume that they do surveys by talking to hunter and gathering data on each areas deer population before they make recommendation on how many deer can be harvested each year in each area of the State. Some areas hold more habitat and therefore can host larger populations.
We studied what the deer ate and how each area's deer's teeth aged (worn down molars etc) according to the type of food they ate. We took the contents of the deer's stomach and preserved it for later study. Later the students examined the contents under a binocular microscope with supplemental lighting in order to identify the plants that the deer were feeding on each area of the State. We learned to age the deer by examining their teeth wear patterns. I loved going to this class. It was great to learn this stuff. I at one time wanted to be a Veterinarian so my first two years of classes were geared to being an animal doctor. I changed my mine and switched my major to Environmental Science and Conservation of Natural Resources instead.
I saw what these guys in the Wildlife Biology Mayor had to study as I was friends with a lot of them my Senior Year. Several of us took the very same classes together. Classes like Introduction to Statistics and Wildlife Biology Senior Level Classes. I already studied Physics, Chemistry, Biology and Zoology and had classes in Oceanography, Geology, Ecology,Microbiology, Biochemistry, Organic Chemistry and Inorganic Chemistry with Qualitative Analysis as well as Computer Programming and Genetics. They study much of the same things to become a Biologist. I was in a program where I could actually pick and choose classes that were of interest to me. I took Classes in Wildlife Biology as well as Evolution and Anthropology along with Political Science and a lot of Nutrition classes. I was in the School of Agriculture at Purdue when I was there. I also took some of the Bio-neuclonics classes which is what the Industrial Hygienists take to get to be a Certified Industrial Hygienist and work in the Industry Areas. These guys study indoor air pollution. They study the radio active stuff that industry and the medical business uses every day. They over see the health of the people working in industrial complexes and Government Facilities as well.
Believe me when I say that these guys working for IDNR at Wildlife Biologist have the best training to do this job. That plus they work with more experienced Biologist that have been doing this job for 30 years. Many were doing this work before some of you reading this were born. They do a pretty good job given the lack of funding that they have to put up with.
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nater
New Member
Posts: 23
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Post by nater on Jun 28, 2014 7:54:14 GMT -5
Woody is right about the drop to being a 3 bonus county is the important change. I would think that dropping from 8 to 4 is a big step in that direction. It makes the jump 4 to 3 more justifiable.
Maybe I missed it, but I don't see an article about the change, and the map just says "proposed." Is this a final rule?
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nater
New Member
Posts: 23
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Post by nater on Jun 28, 2014 7:56:49 GMT -5
Does anyone know where a person could get the data showing how many Indiana hunters actually kill more than 2 deer during any given season? Just curious.... The deer hunter survey from a couple years back has that info. I'll try to dig through that today and I'll report the answer if I find it.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 28, 2014 8:03:13 GMT -5
Woody is right about the drop to being a 3 bonus county is the important change. I would think that dropping from 8 to 4 is a big step in that direction. It makes the jump 4 to 3 more justifiable. Maybe I missed it, but I don't see an article about the change, and the map just says "proposed." Is this a final rule? I'll ask the DNR on the map , but I'll bet this is final..
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Post by jjas on Jun 28, 2014 8:46:45 GMT -5
Here's a link to a survey taken in 2010. www.responsivemanagement.com/download/reports/IN_Deer_Report.pdf The chart is on page 28. It's the only source I could find for hunter success rates. Hunter success rates for 2010 Percentage of Hunters who killed.... 0 deer - 43.5 % 1 deer - 30.00 % 2 deer - 12.2 % 3 deer - 5.6 % 4 deer - 2.4 % 5 deer - .9 % 6 deer - .5 % 7 deer - .2 % 8+deer - .6 % Looking @ the data, I have to ask, do we really have a problem with individual hunters taking too many deer or do we just have a lot of hunters in this state taking very few deer? I know this data is from 2010 and I'd love to find a source from the seasons in 2012/13 and 2013/14 to see if these numbers have changed significantly.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 28, 2014 9:49:03 GMT -5
That is it...
I'd bet those numbers are down the last few years.
Running the total deer hunter numbers against the percent for each category gives us a guesstimate of how many hunters killed how many deer
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Post by duff on Jun 28, 2014 10:03:20 GMT -5
Wanton waste is about attempting to retrieving your game. Nothing on how you choose to use it or not. The quote Woody posted is about dumping dead animals and parts on property without permission.
Where letting a game animal rot in your barn is a waste, as long as they retrieved it, tagged it, and have permission to hang the animal in the barn...it isn't against the law.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 28, 2014 11:21:05 GMT -5
Wanton waste is about attempting to retrieving your game. Nothing on how you choose to use it or not. The quote Woody posted is about dumping dead animals and parts on property without permission. Where letting a game animal rot in your barn is a waste, as long as they retrieved it, tagged it, and have permission to hang the animal in the barn...it isn't against the law. Dunno... Breaking it down In think it covers a wide range of "wanton waste"
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Post by firstwd on Jun 28, 2014 13:01:16 GMT -5
The hardest part to get "court usable" evidence is the "wanton" part of wanton waste. While it is a waste, proving that the person deliberately left the meat to go to waste "beyond a reasonable doubt" is extremely difficult.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 28, 2014 14:11:00 GMT -5
The hardest part to get "court usable" evidence is the "wanton" part of wanton waste. While it is a waste, proving that the person deliberately left the meat to go to waste "beyond a reasonable doubt" is extremely difficult. Very true.. Intent is extremely difficult to prove in any case..
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Post by HillBillyJeff on Jun 30, 2014 4:01:16 GMT -5
Jasper still at 8 and I still will only try to get one deer, like every year.
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Post by HillBillyJeff on Jun 30, 2014 4:05:24 GMT -5
The hardest part to get "court usable" evidence is the "wanton" part of wanton waste. While it is a waste, proving that the person deliberately left the meat to go to waste "beyond a reasonable doubt" is extremely difficult. The way it was explained to me is that if the hunter included it in their bag, they can do with the meat what they want. They can use if all to fertilize the garden if they wanted to.
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Post by tenring on Jun 30, 2014 6:44:37 GMT -5
Outside of the regular season, the depredation permits allow the animal to be burned or buried, putting our deer herd into the category of pests.
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