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Post by span870 on Jan 22, 2015 11:12:49 GMT -5
Okay. Again. They did it. Not argument from me. Unfortunately this is SOP in the NFL. ALL teams bend and push the rules to there breaking point. Bill just gets caught. Okay let me put it this way. If it wasn't understood that teams doctor the football however way, and all ways are a thin line, why let the teams pick their balls and keep them. What other sport does this. Pitchers don't get to pick. Tennis, nope. It is understood.I again am not denying it happened. But it only comes to an issue when a team gets beat by a team that does it. All teams do it. Take it for what its worth. New Orleans. When I heard about it. I thought well ya got caught. Same with the Colts. Did they pipe noise in. Sure they did. Were they found innocent? No, just no evidence they did it. Take what ever you want from the experts on ESPN. Heck madden was criticizing the Pats. This is if you ain't cheating you ain't trying madden. Be a realist. If the pats did it to Cincinnati would there be as big an uproar. It happened to the colts. Indy is ticked. No one else cares. If you believe all teams don't push the book beyond then youre living in a puppy dog and rainbow world. To compare when they did, Met, to breaking the law is just silly. Not taking away your opinion, you are entitled to it. Just stating mine
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 11:29:41 GMT -5
I get what you are saying. However, just to clarify, I am not comparing this to committing a crime. I am saying the net impact of messing with the integrity of the games has a greater impact on a far greater number of people than someone caught breaking s hunting law. Millions of people's bets are riding on the scores of these games. That's billions of dollars hanging in the balance of a game that may not be a legit game because someone is "bending the rules". Pete Rose is the perfect example of exactly my point. Did he alter games because he bet on them? He says no, but that doesn't matter. He paid a high price for putting himself in that position.
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Post by squirrelhunter on Jan 22, 2015 11:43:08 GMT -5
And here I thought the HPR threads were interesting .
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Post by jjas on Jan 22, 2015 12:02:49 GMT -5
Span870
So that makes it right? So that means it should be excused? We spend our lives telling our kids that cheating is wrong. Maybe you think it's nothing, but to me it's not only cheating, but it's cheating on a grand scale. Kids look up to these guys and this "win @ all costs" mentality sends the exact opposite message to kids than the values we are supposed to believe in.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 22, 2015 12:35:22 GMT -5
Span870 So that makes it right? So that means it should be excused? We spend our lives telling our kids that cheating is wrong. Maybe you think it's nothing, but to me it's not only cheating, but it's cheating on a grand scale. Kids look up to these guys and this "win @ all costs" mentality sends the exact opposite message to kids than the values we are supposed to believe in. Amen....
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Post by js2397 on Jan 22, 2015 12:36:12 GMT -5
Span870 So that makes it right? So that means it should be excused? We spend our lives telling our kids that cheating is wrong. Maybe you think it's nothing, but to me it's not only cheating, but it's cheating on a grand scale. Kids look up to these guys and this "win @ all costs" mentality sends the exact opposite message to kids than the values we are supposed to believe in. Again I think you are looking at it throw the sports lens, the NFL is a corporation and playing football is their job. If you don't talk to your about how the corporate world is win at all cost and results driven then you are setting them up for failure. Not saying you need to teach them to cheat just that the others they work with will so they need to watch who they trust.
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Post by span870 on Jan 22, 2015 12:55:26 GMT -5
Span870 So that makes it right? So that means it should be excused? We spend our lives telling our kids that cheating is wrong. Maybe you think it's nothing, but to me it's not only cheating, but it's cheating on a grand scale. Kids look up to these guys and this "win @ all costs" mentality sends the exact opposite message to kids than the values we are supposed to believe in. Again I think you are looking at it throw the sports lens, the NFL is a corporation and playing football is their job. If you don't talk to your about how the corporate world is win at all cost and results driven then you are setting them up for failure. Not saying you need to teach them to cheat just that the others they work with will so they need to watch who they trust. I never said it was right in any of most posts. What I said is its a common occurrence with all teams. Everyone acts surprised when any team gets caught. Big money in NFL. Top that off incentive bonus for performing. When you get to a certain level its understood. Same as NCAA. If you are a college fan and you don't think your team offers extra incentives to top tier athletes, your blind. Every top sports push envelope, and to a degree I'd say cheat. Do you think if you didn't live in Indy that this would be on the top page of every local news feed.
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Post by jjas on Jan 22, 2015 13:00:37 GMT -5
js2397
Results are one thing. Lying and/or cheating to get those results is quite another.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 13:08:59 GMT -5
Again I think you are looking at it throw the sports lens, the NFL is a corporation and playing football is their job. If you don't talk to your about how the corporate world is win at all cost and results driven then you are setting them up for failure. Not saying you need to teach them to cheat just that the others they work with will so they need to watch who they trust. Do you think if you didn't live in Indy that this would be on the top page of every local news feed. yes! It is all over EVERY city's paper. It's headline news in USA Today. It's the TOP STORY on Sports Center, Around the Horn, Pardon the Interruption...ALL of them. It's getting bigger and it's NOT going away.
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Post by span870 on Jan 22, 2015 13:48:46 GMT -5
National not local papers or news. Im out of it. Just wanted to state my point. Nice to disagree and have a argument and it not so south though. I'll still be rooting on my team on Superbowl Sunday.
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Post by jjas on Jan 22, 2015 13:55:59 GMT -5
span870
It's not surprising that the cheating occurs, it's surprising that so many people shrug it off as to say "oh well, everyone does it so it's no big deal". If we accept it in sports or business, then are we to accept in our lives too? I wonder how many of the "it's no big deal, everyone does it" crowd, would accept their spouses having an affair if they used the excuse that "everyone is doing it, what's the big deal"?
And I do think that meta is right. This is a story that is big everywhere, not just Indiana or Indianapolis. It's a bigger story due to fact that the Pats have cheated in the past and the NFL has had more that it's share of examples of bad behavior over the last year.
Throw in the fact that Goodell has suddenly turned into Sgt Schultz (from Hogan's Heroes) and says "I know nothing" every time an issue comes up and yeah.......it has become a big deal.
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Post by js2397 on Jan 22, 2015 15:01:02 GMT -5
js2397 Results are one thing. Lying and/or cheating to get those results is quite another. Correct, but it happens and I am sure each of us is as guilty of breaking the rules of our employer as the Patriots are. Look at the lose of productivity the day after the Super Bowl or during March Madness. Almost everyone here has called in sick on a day when they were not. Let's not make cheating at ones job into some national story everybody does it and there is no way to stop it. Teach your kids what's right, but don't be surprised if they wind up just like everyone else.
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Post by jjas on Jan 22, 2015 15:32:29 GMT -5
js2397 Results are one thing. Lying and/or cheating to get those results is quite another. Correct, but it happens and I am sure each of us is as guilty of breaking the rules of our employer as the Patriots are. Look at the lose of productivity the day after the Super Bowl or during March Madness. Almost everyone here has called in sick on a day when they were not. Let's not make cheating at ones job into some national story everybody does it and there is no way to stop it. Teach your kids what's right, but don't be surprised if they wind up just like everyone else. Nice rationalization.......
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Post by js2397 on Jan 22, 2015 17:32:02 GMT -5
Everyone expects cheating in every game. If no one cheated there wouldn't be referees. How many penalties were called in the game? How many were missed? Pass interference, holding, false start, under inflated balls, are all cheating.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 22, 2015 18:40:42 GMT -5
Updated Patriots logo for the Super Bowl
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Post by duff on Jan 22, 2015 19:16:10 GMT -5
Lol!
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Post by trapperdave on Jan 22, 2015 19:51:02 GMT -5
now thats funny right there.
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Post by jjas on Jan 22, 2015 20:15:26 GMT -5
Updated Patriots logo for the Super Bowl True....and funny.
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Post by subzero350 on Jan 23, 2015 13:35:45 GMT -5
Just to compare the NFL to other major sports:
NASCAR: If a team or driver is found to have broken a rule during a race he (or she) won, that win is automatically taken away + the race team loses points on the season + they could face other penalties.
MLB: If a pitcher is found to be using an illegal substance (example: pine tar) to dope the baseball during a game, that pitcher is immediately suspended for the remainder of the game + may have other penalties levied against them by the league, if it decides to impose them afterwards.
NFL: If a team is caught cheating, the league drags butt for a couple of months and then MAY decide to take away a draft pick or two and levy a minor fine (in terms of how much these people make) against the team, player, coach, whoever. Basically, no such penalties really result in any measurable punishment against the offending team or player. Which is why the cheating continues to occur.
Would the AFC title game between the Colts and Pats have turned out differently if Brady had been kicked out of the game for the 2nd half? I bet it would have.
If the NFL does not punish the Pats before the Super Bowl (and by punishing I mean nothing short of at least suspending Brady and preventing him from playing in the Super Bowl), then this will be the final straw for me. I'll be done with so-called "professional" football.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Jan 23, 2015 15:15:50 GMT -5
... this will be the final straw for me. I'll be done with so-called "professional" football. I was done with it a few years back, when the colts intentionally let their perfect season go to rest their starters for the playoffs. That, and getting rid of Peyton. Both those things left a sour taste in my mouth. NBA is the same way. When you play 70+ games per season, they just don't seem to matter as much. The majority of the players are just there to collect their paychecks. I only watch the Hoosiers these days..
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