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Post by span870 on Feb 3, 2015 8:29:54 GMT -5
Yep. But that is everyone's argument why they should be banned. It gets thrown around that's how it's spreading. That farmer takes that risk. Same as I believe every farmer should take the risk on his livestock. If you raise cattle and they get sick that is your problem not mine or taxpayers. Show me where it spread outside that fence. If the fiinacal burden is always placed on the game holder then I could be more for High fence operations As it should be. The state should in no way shape or form be held liable for one penny of any incident deer farmers face. Whether it be escape, loss of animals, or cleanup in cases of cwd. I believe we agree on this more than what you think.
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Post by drs on Feb 3, 2015 8:33:59 GMT -5
Please don't "Assume" OR place "words" in my posts. From reading your posts in this thread, I've come to the conclusion you don't know much about the subject of "High Fenced Hunting" and it's consequences of introducing diseases to indigenous species of wildlife. I've read many articles concerning diseases like CWD, and its relationship, to its introduction and affects to indigenous species, that were once free of the Disease CWD until outside species were introduced for this "High Fenced Hunting" nonsense. And I'm sure I've read the same or more articles that you have and I've yet to come across one, just one, that gives conclusive evidence. I don't know maybe you can find me one. I obviously know enough to know that this disease is naturally occurring in nature. Know enough that many believe it somehow derived from sheep scrapie, know enough that not you or one, just one, biologist can 100% link it to wild deer by domestic deer, know enough that I can view these animals without a hunters heart and know they aren't wild, and know for me its not my thing but if someone else wants to shoot someone else's livestock, have at it. I reckon that's all I know. I know enough that I will NEVER look down on another outdoorsman and call them less because they don't agree with my stance on taking a certain animal in a certain way as long as they follow the letter of the law. I believe I know a bit more about Deer Dieases ie: CWD & EHD then you, regardless of the articles you've read. I have a degree in Biology and we studied these in most of my classes dealing with wildlife. Do you have a degree in Biology??
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Post by span870 on Feb 3, 2015 8:36:00 GMT -5
Yep. But that is everyone's argument why they should be banned. It gets thrown around that's how it's spreading. That farmer takes that risk. Same as I believe every farmer should take the risk on his livestock. If you raise cattle and they get sick that is your problem not mine or taxpayers. Show me where it spread outside that fence. All Cattle (Not wild Deer) Farmers & Ranchers have their Livestock vaccinated these days. You obviously have never talked to or known a deer farmer. These animals are taken care of and vaccinated way more careful than your cattle farmers. The average cow may bring a thousand dollars if you are lucky, the average deer sold will bring several. I know several that I've seem deer that were worth six figures. These deer follow higher inoculation procedures than any cattle farmer. I realize you probably know that there is no vaccine that you can give to inoculate from cwd. Have you ever been to a deer farm? Not a hunting ranch but a farm. Or are you going 2nd hand here about what you know?
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Post by drs on Feb 3, 2015 8:37:59 GMT -5
CWD is about the weakest argument used against deer farms. CWD has been prevalent over 50 yrs and has not yet caused a wipe out or major threat to deer anywhere. Deer do not live long enough in Indiana to be affected anyway. If it were a serious issue the State would test more than .08% of harvested deer to find and combat the issue. That alone proves they truly are not concerned but rather use it for a scare tactic. Could you imagine if a bill was introduced to force the DNR and/or hunter to have every animal tested as they are on a deer farm. The DNR and every hunter would be lined up to testify that its not a big deal. (At least not a big enough deal for them to pay $120 for the test) I have no problem with arguments for or against hunting preserves. Just believe in your argument 100%. What a complete lack of knowledge of CWD that I've ever seen. Deer Don't Live Long Enough??
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Post by span870 on Feb 3, 2015 8:39:37 GMT -5
And I'm sure I've read the same or more articles that you have and I've yet to come across one, just one, that gives conclusive evidence. I don't know maybe you can find me one. I obviously know enough to know that this disease is naturally occurring in nature. Know enough that many believe it somehow derived from sheep scrapie, know enough that not you or one, just one, biologist can 100% link it to wild deer by domestic deer, know enough that I can view these animals without a hunters heart and know they aren't wild, and know for me its not my thing but if someone else wants to shoot someone else's livestock, have at it. I reckon that's all I know. I know enough that I will NEVER look down on another outdoorsman and call them less because they don't agree with my stance on taking a certain animal in a certain way as long as they follow the letter of the law. I believe I know a bit more about Deer Dieases ie: CWD & EHD then you, regardless of the articles you've read. I have a degree in Biology and we studied these in most of my classes dealing with wildlife. Do you have a degree in Biology?? No but I've read many of the same articles you have. As a biology major than you can more point me to a definitive article that shows where the disease came from and point me to one that shows me that ANY case of wild deer contracting cwd came from game farms. You can throw any degree you want around but you and I both know what the outcome here is. BTW make the article you find unbiased.
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Post by drs on Feb 3, 2015 8:42:44 GMT -5
All Cattle (Not wild Deer) Farmers & Ranchers have their Livestock vaccinated these days. You obviously have never talked to or known a deer farmer. These animals are taken care of and vaccinated way more careful than your cattle farmers. The average cow may bring a thousand dollars if you are lucky, the average deer sold will bring several. I know several that I've seem deer that were worth six figures. These deer follow higher inoculation procedures than any cattle farmer. I realize you probably know that there is no vaccine that you can give to inoculate from cwd. Have you ever been to a deer farm? Not a hunting ranch but a farm. Or are you going 2nd hand here about what you know? Your correct as I've never visited a "Deer Farm". When I think about a farm or ranch I assume they are holding cattle raised for beef or milk. Also your correct there is no inoculate for CWD. ~This point is the only thing you are correct on.
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Post by drs on Feb 3, 2015 8:44:50 GMT -5
I believe I know a bit more about Deer Dieases ie: CWD & EHD then you, regardless of the articles you've read. I have a degree in Biology and we studied these in most of my classes dealing with wildlife. Do you have a degree in Biology?? No but I've read many of the same articles you have. As a biology major than you can more point me to a definitive article that shows where the disease came from and point me to one that shows me that ANY case of wild deer contracting cwd came from game farms. You can throw any degree you want around but you and I both know what the outcome here is. BTW make the article you find unbiased. Your a grown-up and able to use a computer......"Google" it yourself.
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Post by Genesis 27:3 on Feb 3, 2015 8:54:29 GMT -5
Getting into the conversation a little late...I for one am not a fan of high fenced "hunting". It's a practice that I will never partake in or support. That being said, I will also not ridicule or belittle anyone that does. It's their choice. I would just rather that they didn't call it hunting or themselves hunters because it's not and they are not.
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Post by hunterman on Feb 3, 2015 9:03:06 GMT -5
You have to judge a persons character and credit by allowing them to post on a subject. Then as DRS did on the subject of CWD you can determine just by their own words that they know absolutely nothing about cwd. You cant read the front page of the national enquirer and get educated and then attempt to teach. PET uses those same methods and spreads the words that 90% of animals shot with a bow run off and suffer and agonizing death and are never found. DRS assessment of cwd is exactly like the PETA assessment, driven by agenda and emotion, not by facts, science and common sense.
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Post by span870 on Feb 3, 2015 9:07:22 GMT -5
No but I've read many of the same articles you have. As a biology major than you can more point me to a definitive article that shows where the disease came from and point me to one that shows me that ANY case of wild deer contracting cwd came from game farms. You can throw any degree you want around but you and I both know what the outcome here is. BTW make the article you find unbiased. Your a grown-up and able to use a computer......"Google" it yourself. I've googled all I cared to. Nothing. Me being just Joe redneck without a biology degree I just figured I would defer to the expert that you are with your degree. I'm sure in class your professor told you of at least one case study that came out definitive. I think it real hilarious that you want to throw out your biology degree and say I know less about it than you do, but when push comes to shove you know the same thing I do. You should also know that that degree doesn't make you a scholar on all things to do with biology, and I didn't spend 5 figures to know that. BTW what was your main point of study with your biology degree. Here I go assuming again it would be cervids and contagious diseases of cervids.
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Post by drs on Feb 3, 2015 9:11:39 GMT -5
You have to judge a persons character and credit by allowing them to post on a subject. Then as DRS did on the subject of CWD you can determine just by their own words that they know absolutely nothing about cwd. You cant read the front page of the national enquirer and get educated and then attempt to teach. PET uses those same methods and spreads the words that 90% of animals shot with a bow run off and suffer and agonizing death and are never found. DRS assessment of cwd is exactly like the PETA assessment, driven by agenda and emotion, not by facts, science and common sense. I am sorry to inform you, but you're absolutely WRONG about me siding with those "Left-leaning" organizations like PETA. I have nothing in common with them or other anti-hunting organizations. Also I don't place my personal feelings concerning topics like Diseases in Deer or affecting other species. What I don't like is: members posting false information about topics due to their lack of knowledge. Do you have a degree in Biological Sciences???
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Post by drs on Feb 3, 2015 9:26:36 GMT -5
Span870 posted: I've googled all I cared to. Nothing. Me being just Joe redneck without a biology degree I just figured I would defer to the expert that you are with your degree.
Glad you Googled the topic at hand as you could learn more about CWD and other diseases affecting Deer. I don't know everything, but know more than the average Hunter or person interested in this topic.
I'm sure in class your professor told you of at least one case study that came out definitive. I think it real hilarious that you want to throw out your biology degree and say I know less about it than you do, but when push comes to shove you know the same thing I do.
Sorry you feel that way, and I don't throw my knowledge of Biology or any other science around as you find amusing or say. I do, having a college degree do have an edge over you on various Biological subjects. You should have gone to a University and majored in Wildlife Biology, as you certainly find the subject interesting.
You should also know that that degree doesn't make you a scholar on all things to do with biology, and I didn't spend 5 figures to know that. BTW what was your main point of study with your biology degree. Here I go assuming again it would be cervids and contagious diseases of cervids.
I received my Degree back in 1974, some of the data, studies, ETC., concerning Wildlife Biology, have been revised and up-dated. I do keep-up on such data.
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Post by span870 on Feb 3, 2015 9:31:03 GMT -5
For those who didn't know; CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease) was first observed in Northeast Colorado, back in 1967. The way it is introduced to other wild Deer herds in other States, is the import of an infected animal placed in these High Fenced areas. This infected Deer or Elk may not show signs of the disease in it's early stage. The only false statement made in this conversation.
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Post by span870 on Feb 3, 2015 9:37:21 GMT -5
Span870 posted: I've googled all I cared to. Nothing. Me being just Joe redneck without a biology degree I just figured I would defer to the expert that you are with your degree. Glad you Googled the topic at hand as you could learn more about CWD and other diseases affecting Deer. I don't know everything, but know more than the average Hunter or person interested in this topic. I'm sure in class your professor told you of at least one case study that came out definitive. I think it real hilarious that you want to throw out your biology degree and say I know less about it than you do, but when push comes to shove you know the same thing I do.Sorry you feel that way, and I don't throw my knowledge of Biology or any other science around as you find amusing or say. I do, having a college degree do have an edge over you on various Biological subjects. You should have gone to a University and majored in Wildlife Biology, as you certainly find the subject interesting. You should also know that that degree doesn't make you a scholar on all things to do with biology, and I didn't spend 5 figures to know that. BTW what was your main point of study with your biology degree. Here I go assuming again it would be cervids and contagious diseases of cervids.I received my Degree back in 1974, some of the data, studies, ETC., concerning Wildlife Biology, have been revised and up-dated. I do keep-up on such data. Are you a politician also because you are really dancing around this topic. I'm asking for proof. I can give you all the proof and all the articles and case studies you want proving that no one can say 100% wild deer get it from farm deer. All I'm asking of you is one unbiased article stating otherwise.
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Post by drs on Feb 3, 2015 9:39:40 GMT -5
For those who didn't know; CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease) was first observed in Northeast Colorado, back in 1967. The way it is introduced to other wild Deer herds in other States, is the import of an infected animal placed in these High Fenced areas. This infected Deer or Elk may not show signs of the disease in it's early stage. The only false statement made in this conversation. Well I see you're trying to discredit my post. Good try but once again you're wrong. Tell you what, why don't you give-up this argument, and post things you actually know about. <Thanks>
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 3, 2015 9:45:25 GMT -5
Please stick to the subject... You all are getting very close to personal stuff.....
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Feb 3, 2015 9:47:28 GMT -5
For those who didn't know; CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease) was first observed in Northeast Colorado, back in 1967. The way it is introduced to other wild Deer herds in other States, is the import of an infected animal placed in these High Fenced areas. This infected Deer or Elk may not show signs of the disease in it's early stage. The only false statement made in this conversation. I readily admit I don't know much about CWD, EHD, HPV, whatever.. But I have hunted in CWD areas in Colorado and Wyoming, and you are required by law to either leave the brain and spinal column at the kill site, or dispose of it in a licensed landfill. If it's that risky to just transport portions of a dead critter from a CWD area, I'd imagine transporting the entire live animal would entail much greater risk of infection to local herds.
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Post by drs on Feb 3, 2015 9:48:06 GMT -5
Please stick to the subject... You all are getting very close to personal stuff..... Don't worry Woody, I am through discussing this topic. Too bad it ended up this way.
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Post by span870 on Feb 3, 2015 9:50:22 GMT -5
JUST ONE!!! Let's break this down. You say the way it is spread is by bringing infected deer into farms and it spreads from there to wild deer. Someone that has no idea what they are talking about will read this and say hmmm. That's the only way. How about spinal fluid, brain matter, internal organs. Why if this is the only way do state restrict bringing deer parts from infected areas into non infected areas?
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Post by onebentarrow on Feb 3, 2015 9:59:56 GMT -5
Please stick to the subject... You all are getting very close to personal stuff..... I do not have a dog in this fight but thank you. This post and the way you watch and run this form is the reason I enjoy reading it. YOU do a great job of keeping it civil and infornitave at the same time. Thanks again Onebentarrow
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