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Post by freedomhunter on Apr 10, 2015 16:33:08 GMT -5
It seems to me from observing arguments like this that the only thing behavior in this life that isn't tolerated is taking any kind of stand. People that say, "homosexual behavior is a sin" are the bad guys now. No matter how gently it's stated, no matter when the Christian says, "Yes, sin is sin, and I'm no better than you, but what you are doing is still wrong, just like what I'm doing is wrong..." People just can't take that any more. The bandwagon stance is just to accept any behavior so you'll be seen as "tolerant" and "accepting." No standards of any kind. No accountability. If you don't get on the bandwagon you get called "hypocrite" "Bigot" etc, even when you don't name call yourself. I'll walk, thank you. I have not seen anyone here suggest homosexuality is not a sin. The point people are missing or completely ignoring is that it is no more or less than a sin than myself and pretty much any Christian who takes a good hard look at themselves commits every day. Yet, somehow, many Christians can't or won't see that. They say, "well they keep on sinning" and I say, well, so do you...you just don't think your sin is as icky". (Again, I mean "you" in a general term). Why don't Christians get all riled up about overweight people, folks who drink too much, smokers (I know lots of churches in KY that have ash trays...pastors who smoke, and so on), people who swear...I see lots of Christian friends who post things on FB with awful language....and so on? That's the point. Why do we have to take on the sin of homosexuality like it's special? It is a disgusting immoral act contrary to nature. Idk how anyone equates it to a bad habit or weight problem, goodness man I wouldn't want to answer for it
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Post by swilk on Apr 10, 2015 16:36:08 GMT -5
There is your answer Met....its more "icky" than other sins and freaks them out more. Just can't wrap their heads around how a man could do that with another man.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 16:36:22 GMT -5
If you are saying that one sin is worse than another then you must have a very different bible than I have.
I think smoking is a vile, disgusting habit that is bad for the body and a sin. It is the very same sin as homosexuality, murder and gluttony.
According to scripture, sin is sin. And yes, according to scripture we will all have to answer for it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 16:37:31 GMT -5
There is your answer Met....its more "icky" than other sins and freaks them out more. Just can't wrap their heads around how a man could do that with another man. Exactly. Now we are getting to the "bottom of it"
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Post by Sasquatch on Apr 10, 2015 16:38:36 GMT -5
I understand and respect your point, metamorahunter. And as far as sin being sin, I agree with you.
However, when you talk about treating the sin of Homosexual behavior as special, I submit that it is the supporters of the behavior, not the critics, that treat it as special.
You mentioned smokers, cussers, fat people, etc. When have you ever seen an all out blitz for everyone to unconditionally accept any of those people. ( esp. smokers, good grief, if we treated gays like almost everyone treats smokers the liberals heads would explode)Occasionally you see people defend fat folks, but criticism of their behavior is fine. Outright persecution of smokers is fine. Cussers are looked at sideways.
Yet you have to admit there is a strong push for everyone not to only accept gays, but shout from the rooftops how much they approve of them. Otherwise you are a bigot. No criticism, not even mute disapproval allowed. We can't just accept it, we have to promote it or be harassed.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Apr 10, 2015 16:39:56 GMT -5
I am going to start a campaign to point out all the gluttony I see. I see a lot of fat people at church. Some in my bible study. Heck my pastor could skip a few meals for that matter. Yet, they keep eating way more calories than they burn...day after day. Maybe they were "born that way" but I think it's a lifestyle choice! All I know for sure is that the Bible says its a sin and I wouldn't want to be thought of as accepting it. Just trying to make my point in a way that will get through. Nothing seems to be working here... If you did these things, maybe you would be hot. Who are the hot, cold and lukewarm? Revelation 3:15-16New International Version (NIV) 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
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Post by swilk on Apr 10, 2015 16:40:53 GMT -5
"bottom" of it....lol.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 16:42:54 GMT -5
I don't think most people expect Christians to "approve" of homosexual acts any more than we are expected to approve of any other sin.
It is a fine line we walk and I will grant you, it can be pushed too far in both directions and often is.
I am just trying to provide another perspective to keep things in balance.
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Post by swilk on Apr 10, 2015 16:44:30 GMT -5
From that different observation point folks might see not using religion as an excuse to discriminate instead of being forced to "accept".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 16:54:44 GMT -5
So, for the record, I don't "approve" of homosexual acts but I understand that they are no more or less than any sin I have done today or will do tomorrow. Therefore, it bothers me when I see Christians crusading against any singled-out, particular sin. It does far more harm than good because it alienates and divides. It will, in the end, drive many away from the real Christian message.
That is my final word on this (probably). I have enjoyed the debate. It has been pretty above board and respectful, I feel.
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Post by greghopper on Apr 10, 2015 16:56:28 GMT -5
I have not seen anyone here suggest homosexuality is not a sin. The point people are missing or completely ignoring is that it is no more or less than a sin than myself and pretty much any Christian who takes a good hard look at themselves commits every day. Yet, somehow, many Christians can't or won't see that. They say, "well they keep on sinning" and I say, well, so do you...you just don't think your sin is as icky". (Again, I mean "you" in a general term). Why don't Christians get all riled up about overweight people, folks who drink too much, smokers (I know lots of churches in KY that have ash trays...pastors who smoke, and so on), people who swear...I see lots of Christian friends who post things on FB with awful language....and so on? That's the point. Why do we have to take on the sin of homosexuality like it's special? It is a disgusting immoral act contrary to nature. Idk how anyone equates it to a bad habit or weight problem, goodness man I wouldn't want to answer for it Your wasting your time...... But you Truly have GOOD intentions!!! Some can't see the forest for the trees....... A person wouldn't expect a "nest" of liberals on a hunting site.....live and learn I guess!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 16:59:45 GMT -5
Most have been respectful. There are always one or two who can't quite pull it off. Greg, I am as far from liberal as I am from Conservative. If I was a liberal, I would not be able to stand you! As it is, I think you are the bee's knees!
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Post by swilk on Apr 10, 2015 17:02:12 GMT -5
Lol...liberal... Haha.
I assume that was meant as an insult....and I assume, as we are not allowed to insult our fellow members, a mod will be along shortly to delete it.
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Post by greghopper on Apr 10, 2015 17:06:21 GMT -5
Met I knew you wasn't done when you said it the first time.... Something about never being wrong or the light of truth be shinned in your eyes!!!
Must be a "teacher" thing...
BTW.... Glad to be your favorite
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 17:14:22 GMT -5
Met I knew you wasn't done when you said it the first time.... Something about never being wrong or the light of truth be shinned in your eyes!!! Must be a "teacher" thing... BTW.... Glad to be your favorite I said I was "probably" done. Also, I'm the one in this debate who admits I might be wrong. I said I don't know the answer and if i was in error, I wanted to err on the side of caution.
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Post by trophyparadise on Apr 10, 2015 17:27:26 GMT -5
I think met made a good point about singling one sin out from another. I agree you can't pick and choose. That was really my biggest beef with osteen. For him to justify being homosexual is to justify all sin...it's a 2 way street. Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" www.facebook.com/trophyparadise
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 17:36:59 GMT -5
We also have to separate the concept of being homosexual and practicing homosexual acts. Two different things in my book. Was Osteen justifying actions or people?
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Post by trophyparadise on Apr 10, 2015 17:56:25 GMT -5
We also have to separate the concept of being homosexual and practicing homosexual acts. Two different things in my book. Was Osteen justifying actions or people? Both Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" www.facebook.com/trophyparadise
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 17:57:49 GMT -5
Ok. I didn't read where he said it was not a sin to have homosexual sex.
Thanks for clarifying.
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Post by greyhair on Apr 10, 2015 18:18:10 GMT -5
TV preachers are a diverse and interesting lot. In my opinion the worst one is Peter Popoff. This guy is a predator of the worst kind, with his miracle spring water that will cause you to get lots of money all of a sudden.
On the other end, Pastor Jack Hayford was in my view a really good one. I really enjoyed his show when it was on. Very humble man that preached about the relationship between man and God, and how to try to live your life in the example of Jesus. Not that we really can, but the idea is to try to be a better Christian every day than you were the day before.
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